New Proposed Soundsystem Upgrade

Holydoc

Ok be gentle because this is my first car post. Let me start out that I am not going to install the system myself and know little to nothing about quality auto sound equipment.

My current car sound system (I have a 2002 Trans Am convertible) is a 500watt factory Monsoon system with factory speakers and 12 CD changer. The problem is that I currently just utilize the stereo as an FM receiver to play my IPOD through. Utilizing it this way, I sometimes get bad reception, hear car noise through the radio, etc.

I decided to upgrade the whole system so I could get an integrated HU with IPOD capabilities. Requirements is Loud and Clear (convertible remember) with the steering wheel controls still active and total IPOD control.

Installer here is a Memphis dealer and proposes to place in the top of the line Alpine HU (non-DVD support), Memphis Amp, total replacement of the factory speakers with Memphis Speakers, and custom Subwoofer for the trunk.

Without asking about price (don't sweat the little things) what is your opinions of this system? I know I haven't given much information (LOL...hardly any info) but assuming the installer is honest, can the above system be rocking or should I look into a different brand dealer? I know nothing about Alpine HU's or Memphis systems.

Again sorry for the lack of information. I am car audio stupid.

avelanchefan

Hey holy, I am definatly not one to advise on car audio, BUT I frequent the scionlife forums quite a bit (I own a Scion tC) and there seems to be a growing fan base for Memphis audio. Also the scion members have been giving praise to the Memphis Mojo subs too.

Just giving you an idea of what is being said...so far nothing negative.

brettw22

On the price thing, it would help if you had a budget lined out so people can at least suggest things that are within the range you're able to work with. Make sure you have a built in dollar amount for wires, interconnects, and labor for all of this install, or at least give these guys a number to stay within that is for equipment only...........

Holydoc

Brett,

No price number is necessary since I am not looking for the best deal but a good soundsystem from a local professional installer. So in this case I just want to know if Alpine and Memphis are good brands and a good upgrade from the Monsoon I have now. In other words, not looking for advice like "I can do that much cheaper". I am looking for advice like "Stay away from brand X because those speakers blow easily and have a bad sound" or "Sounds like the installer was recommending a nice high end system".

[Deleted User]

Alpine Hu's are great especially with an ipod interface, but if price is not much of an issue, you could do better on the speaker side of things. Good component systems are Rainbow, DLS, Focal, and our SR6500 series. Good subs are JL, Image Dynamics,MTX, and our SR124 series. Good amps are Zapco, JL, Arc, MTX. You will need a set of 6.5" components up front, at least one sub, and a 4 channel and a mono amp. Rear speakers are optional. Being from a home audio background you know all about front stages so you don't want a lot coming from behind you, if any. What area are you from in Florida?

Joelsbass

Personally in a convertible I'd definitely lose the rear speakers. With the top down the wind's going to kill most of the audio coming from behind (kinda tough to vibrate air particles that are moving away from the listeners ear)

I've never heard anything bad about Memphis but having listened to some of their gear I was never all that impressed. you might be better off picking something from the brands that Josh suggested if the installer will still run them for you. I'd also like to throw two of my personal preferences into the mix being Adire's Bramah line for subs and US Amps for amplifiers (not entirely sure how their new lines are shaping up though...)

Alpine definitely makes a good headunit though!

audiobliss

Sounds to me like for the most part he's setting you up with a pretty good system. You can do better in some places, of course, though you said you're not looking for the greatest install ever. However, even keeping that in mind, I would personally recommend some research and replacing a few of those pieces.

As for the HU, the three top dogs, imo, are Alpine, Panasonic Premier, and Eclipse, pretty much in the opposite order I listed them in. However, I'm not really up on who has the better, more seamless, more efficient iPod integration. So, as long as you stick with those three (or even go with Kenwood eXcelon, Clarion, Panasonic), you'll be happy.

As for amps, Memphis definitely makes some good ones. Not the best, but definitely better than your run of the mill amp. I'm personally using one of their 4channel amps and couldn't be happier with it. JLAudio makes some nice amplifiers, too, but I'd stay away from them, personally; just not a fan. Polk, Zapco, USAmps, Arc Audio are all good, solid choices. Diamond Audio probably wouldn't be a bad choice, either. But if you like this installer and his shop, I'd just stick with the Memphis amp.

Oh, oh. If you go with a Memphis amp, make sure it's from the MClass series. I wouldn't touch their lower end equipment.

Now, speakers. I think some of the Memphis' MClass speakers sound pretty good, myself, but I'd rather stick with the more established brands for speakers. Pretty much what Josh listed: Rainbow, Focal, Polk SR Series. Those are more in the high-end range. If I were redoing my system, I'd go with some Polk MOMO MMC6500 components.

And also like Josh said, you don't want any rear speakers. Hopefully you understand rear speakers will mess up the imaging and draw the soundstage back toward the rear of the car. I would've thought those kinds of principles would just be a given with hom audio veterans, but I've been surprised before...

I'm not that up on subs as I've yet to get one for my system. Alpine Type X, Image Dynamics, RE, Adire Audio, and then the Polk SR and MOMO subs.

Holydoc

Some great advice everyone. The problem with going with a brand that the installer does not have is that I have to do all the legwork, research, etc to ensure I get good speakers that work with the car's current configuration. By letting the installer worry about all that, I can complain and get the system tweaked just right without the installer saying things like "Well, you wanted those speakers".

Audiobliss, I am going to surprise you. There is currently two speakers in the back that the installer was going to also replace with Memphis ones. He was only planning on utilizing one amp so there was going to be no fade control. I have not noticed the current back speakers messing up the imaging but I have not been as critical of my car system as I do of my home system.

Joelsbass, you would be pleasantly surprised in a convertible. Believe it or not, the wind comes off the top of the windshield, travels over the car, rolls over into the back seat, and then travels to the front seats, before finally blowing out the front sides of the car. In other words when you travel in a convertible, the wind blows your hair from the back of your head towards your face. Therefore the wind is actually aiding the backspeakers by pushing the sound waves forward into the front section of the car.

BTW...you guys have some excellent advice. Thanks for helping me with such little information that I gave you. I know these are very novice questions and you guys have been very patient.

[Deleted User]

Holydoc wrote:

The problem with going with a brand that the installer does not have is that I have to do all the legwork, research, etc to ensure I get good speakers that work with the car's current configuration. By letting the installer worry about all that, I can complain and get the system tweaked just right without the installer saying things like "Well, you wanted those speakers".

How about this...do they have a demo vehicle with said product installed? A listening board is a good way to A/B product but it's not going to sound the same in your car. Your ideal sound system might be above and beyond the capability of the equipment they are selling you. The installation also has a lot to do with the performance of the speakers. Ask for sound deadening and ask if there are different levels of install pricing. For example:

Component installation simple (slap it in): $100
Component installation advanced (mounting w/moderate sound deadening):$150
Component installation pro (the same as above but whole door sound deadening (inner and outer skin) and custom mounting rings):$225

Also, you didn't answer where in Florida you are.

exalted512

What other brands besides Memphis does he have? Hes got to have something else or hes going to be losing a lot of business. Just keep your options open.
-Cody

Holydoc

Josh,

I am in the Panhandle in the Destin area.

MacLeod

Sounds like everybody has got you pretty well covered.

My $.02 would be that Memphis makes very good gear. Their amps are quite sturdy and do well in the competition scene. They had a World Championship last year at MECA finals in SPL and SQ.

Their subs are also very good. Theyre geared more toward SPL and so they can move some air but they still sound pretty good.

However, their speakers, while good, arent my type of speaker. A little bright for my tastes

Still, if you HAD to go with the Memphis speakers, they dont suck.

audiobliss

Yeah, I'm now remembering that before I bought my Boston Acoustics I listened to some MClass components that had the silk tweeters...I liked the way they sounded.

However, I'd never buy the Memphis components if I could get some Polk MOMO components for the same price.

Holydoc

Thanks everyone. I gave the installer a call and said to write me up a price for the best of what he has. Given his off-the-cuff original quote and everyone's great advice, I suspect I will probably accept the quote and leave my baby with him for a couple days of installation work.

I fear that the speakers are a lot like home audio experience. Until I get them in the car and take them for a run, I will not know if they fit me or not. Everyone has relieved my biggest fears that the Headunit, amp, and sub may be subpar. Sounds like there is an agreement that those pieces are good quality. Once that foundation is in place then the actual swapping out the speakers for different ones down the line will be a fairly minimal cost and effort as compared to getting the system in place.

I really do appreciate everyone's honesty and taking the time to comment.

black magic

Alpine has some very nice HU's, btw... most, if not all the new ones also have an iPOD interface. (dont forget to buy the cable, sold separately... at least with panasonic it was. But i still love my panasonic deck)

Holydoc

Black Magic,

I did not mean to mislead you. I am not buying any of the parts separately. The installer is going to give me a price for the entire system. All I am going to do is drop off the car, pick up the car, pay the man, and rock out of the parking lot. It will have a dock for the IPOD, controlled through the existing steering wheel controls, and warmed up for me. Heck, I figure for the first week, the installer may even ride along to change radio stations if I want.

black magic

oic, my fault. To be honest, i didn't read all the posts.

good luck with everything, though! Let us know how it turns out!

Holydoc

Well he sent me a quote with specifics, and I accepted.

Alpine CDA-9857 HU
IPOD Adapter
Steering Wheel Control Adapter
All MClass Speakers to replace my existing ones
MC3004 Amplifier
10" Memphis Sub

Paid for parts and scheduled appointment for next Friday. I will keep everyone informed about how the system goes.

Thanks again.

Holydoc

Update:

I picked up the car today after the installation. One change was made to the installation. Because the car is a convertible and the top shields the rear compartment when down, the installer placed in a 12" Alpine Sub rather than the 10" Memphis for the same price to attempt to defeat this problem.

First impression:
I have a lot to learn and fiddle with on this system. Every source can have its own sound settings (i.e., treble, bass, subwoofer, etc.). This is going to take a while to get everything set up the way I want it.

Sound wise, I am still playing with it. It can get very loud and clear. Playing Eric Clapton Unplugged you could hear every string plucked. Unlike the old system you can immediately recognize when a song was mixed bass heavy and when it was mixed with little to no bass.

The one thing that I am concerned with is the fatigue I felt when listening to it. I am not sure if this is caused from me trying to listen too hard for detail, having the stereo too loud because it is so clear and undistorted, or if it is caused by the speakers' presentation. I am going to have to play with it a while to see what adjustments I need to make to ensure a pleasurable listening environment.

The most important source for music is the Ipod. Since the whole system was basically designed around making it sound good, I was rather anxious to hear the results. Well this is the first time since I have owned the Ipod where the Ipod source sounds better than the Radio Tuner. How much better than the tuner seems to depend on the song. Some songs come near the quality of my Home theatre. Other songs are still lacking. I am going to really have to work on getting this system balanced well.

As for the Ipod controls through the Alpine HU, I am very pleased. I can easily switch between Playlists, Artists, Albums, or just songs. I basically never have to worry about touching the Ipod. This means I have over 2500+ songs available at near CD quality.

So I am off to play with more settings and see what I can adjust. Heck, I have FM and CD soundstage to adjust after I finish with the Ipod. It could be months before I give it a fair review. BTW... that is not a bad position to be in.

audiobliss

Eric Clapton Unplugged? Glad to hear you'll be playing some quality music through this system!

Welcome to the world of tuning and tweaking!! Sounds like you have a pretty good foundation to work with. Let's hope you can manage to nip the brightness in the bud. Don't want any fatigue when sitting in a traffic jam for 3 hours! lol

MacLeod

First thing you should realize is that all systems will sound bad when first installed. But it shouldnt take too long to get it dialed in.

The listening fatigue usually comes from harsh tweeters or bright sounding speakers in general......which is exactly what Memphis speakers are. You should be able to tune it down some. If any of your speakers came with an external crossover, they should have a tweeter attenuator. Make sure this is set to the max setting (i.e. - 6db).

Holydoc

MacLeod,

Thanks for the advice. I will look into adjusting the crossovers after I have exhausted all the easy modifications.

BTW... is there any particular cross-over point that I should be setting my subwoofer? I noticed that the installer had set it for 80Hz, the same as a HT. Is this preferred as well for audio?

MacLeod

Its a good starting point. You may wind up changing it but 80 Hz is a good place to start. I have mine set at 63 Hz.

audiobliss

You say you'll change the crossover's tweeter attenuator after you exhaust the tweaking of the EQ and such...I'd probably just go ahead and do that first. It's pretty much a given those speakers are going to be bright. I'd rather go ahead and set the attenuator and then tweak the EQ.

Holydoc

Some more items I have no idea about. Please excuse my ignorance.

Setting the Bass bandwidth. I have settings of 1.25 (narrow) to 0.5 (wide). What is the normal settings? What does it mean by narrow and wide?

Setting Treble Center Frequency. I have settings of 15kHz to 7.5kHz. What is the normal settings. What happens to the sound when I move it from 15kHz to 7.5kHz?

BBE Effect. The manual says it makes vocals or instrument sound distinct to clearly reproduce music clearly even with a lot of road noise. I have 3 settings plus off. What the heck is this actually doing?

Again I apologize for my ignorance on this stuff, but the manual is severly lacking on explainations.

Thanks again,

MacLeod

BBE is likely some processing. Turn it off as they never work right.

Bandwidth. When you raise a certain frequeny, its not just not that frequency that is adjusted. It is centered on that frequency and then rolls off on either side of it. So when you adjust 1000 Hz, youre also adjusting 1100 and 900 but to a lesser degree and 1200 and 800 to an even lesser degree and so on. Imagine a rainbow with 1000 at the top.

A wide bandwidht would mean the rainbow with a shallower cut off slope on either side where the narrow bandwidth would be more like a pyramid with a much steeper cutoff slope.

Now the centering thing just means which frequency youre wanting to adjust. If you think 10 KHz is a little hot, you center your frequency there and adjust.

Does that make sense? Im terrible at explaing this crap.

Holydoc

Now that I have owned and finally tuned the system a bit better, I thought I would come back to give a bit of an update.

So far I am loving the system. It is very loud and clear at high decibel levels. I have tuned it enough so that it is no longer fatiguing to listen to for long amounts of time. The only thing bad, that seems a fact of owning a convertible, is having to adjust the subwoofer every time the top goes up or down. With the top up, I barely have to send any power to the sub to get clear bass. With the top down (which is almost always), I have to really crank on the bass to get a good sound.

The Alpine head-unit is superb! The IPOD interface is absolutely wonderful. Just about all the same controls I have with just the IPOD are interfaced into this HU. It is sure nice to have 3000+ songs at your fingertips all controlled from the steering wheel of your car.

I did have one heat problem arise which caused the Memphis Amp to go into protection mode. With the amp in the very small convertible trunk, it has no circulation. Playing music at high volumes with the top down drove the amp into protection mode when it got too hot. To compensate for this, we added a small fan in the trunk to circulate air across the amp when the stereo is on. If that does not work (i.e. when the Florida summer sets in and temperatures get into the 100's), then I will try putting less load on the amp by removing the subwoofer from the current amp and adding a new one just for it.

MacLeod

That fan will do wonders for cooling. Im thinking of putting one in my trunk as well.

Holydoc

MacLeod wrote:

That fan will do wonders for cooling. Im thinking of putting one in my trunk as well.

That's a relief. I was afraid you may come back and call it ridiculous. Like I said, I am new to car stereos. I was not sure to try the fan or just add another amp strictly for the sub. All I know is that you can cook eggs on the current Memphis Amp. Maybe this fan will keep it to a simmer rather than a broil.