RTi8 - Mid Bass too quiet

Huck344

So, I've had my RTi8's for about two weeks now. I mainly listen to HT with about 30% music. The one thing I noticed in music is that mid-bass sounds are very weak (almost muffled). I got out my test CD and SPL meter and noticed that there is a definite drop off of about 8-10db starting at around 180Hz to 120Hz (when the sub kicks in). Right now, I am only powering them with my Onkyo SR804 (allegedly 105WPC). I have used the Onkyo's EQ to try and bring out more sound in that range, but it really doesn't help much. Within the next month, I will be getting an ATI AT1803 amp to power my front three. My question is this: Will the new amp bring out more sound in the 180Hz to 120Hz range? I know it will add more clarity and detail. Should I take the 8's back and get the 10's? BTW, I don't mind the brightness of these speakers, though others who have heard them with me tend to disagree.

Thanks in advance,

Eric. . .

McLoki

Sounds more like a room or setup issue. I would play with the crossovers to your sub (should be closer to 80hz I would think). Maybe play with sub/speaker placement or look into room treatments.

To be down that low at that narrow of a frequency band sounds most like room issues to me.

Michael

Huck344

I have the sub crossover set up at 120Hz. The RTi 8's are set to 80Hz, so there is a bit of an overlap. Are you saying that I should set the sub to 80Hz instead of the 120Hz. I've actually moved the speakers around a bit and even taken SPL readings from different spots with no luck. That's why I'm wondering if the RTi 8's are just lacking in that frequency range. I would figure that two 6 1/2" drivers could hit those freqs. Maybe I'm just too picky.

ronnie

i think you should put your sub at 80hz and see what happens. i can't see that the rti8's should lack in anything but what the sub should handle

Ern Dog

Well adding an amp will improve the sound all the way around. Whether you will hear more at 180hz, who knows. Over the weekend, I also did some SPL and frequency testing with my Rti10's and I've got peaks and valleys all over the frequency range. This is totally a room issue. The only way to address this is room treatment, speaker placement, or getting an EQ. Looks like you already tried different placements and the Onkyo EQ w/out success. Try changing to different crossover points to see if that helps. I'm guessing you'll have this problem even if you switch to the 10's. Can you buy them and keep the set that sounds better?

Huck344

Ern Dog wrote:

Can you buy them and keep the set that sounds better?

That's actually a damn good idea. I never thought about it. I'll try to do that this weekend.

michael_w

Is it possible that the sub is cancelling things out? It obviously sounds like a room issue creating the null, but I'm thinking if your sub starts to roll off at 120 it could extend into what the 8's are playing and cancel things out. Is your sub far from the 8's? Try playing with the phase on the sub and see if it levels out at all. The room can make or break the system. It'd probably be best to just try every placement option available even if your furniture doesn't look like it'll work with it right away. There's always room for sacrafice when it comes to better sound

Holydoc

I am wondering the same thing as Michael. Have you tried listening to music in Pure mode without the sub? Do you still get the drop offs? If your system sounds fine in pure mode, then you have a sub adjustment problem. Place that cross over around 80hz.

Also make sure your front speakers are in phase and not cancelling each other out.

Finally I am assuming you left the jumpers connected to your speaker outposts and that you are not trying to bi-amp or bi-wire. If you removed the jumpers, you will not get the full frequency sweep of your speakers.

dudeinaroom

michael_w wrote:

Is it possible that the sub is cancelling things out? It obviously sounds like a room issue creating the null, but I'm thinking if your sub starts to roll off at 120 it could extend into what the 8's are playing and cancel things out. Is your sub far from the 8's? Try playing with the phase on the sub and see if it levels out at all. The room can make or break the system. It'd probably be best to just try every placement option available even if your furniture doesn't look like it'll work with it right away. There's always room for sacrafice when it comes to better sound

+1 on that

Try putting your sub next to your 8's and have the front baffles on the same plane. If that helps , but you still have a dip you can try adusting the phase on the speakers if you have a knob turn it about a 1/4 turn at a time, and take a reading se if it gets better or worse, and adjust from there if you have a switch flip it to 180 check it if it gets worse flip it back and try moving the sub forward, or backwards from the front plane of the eights I'd try about 6 inches at a time just to get things rolling and fine tune from there.

Good luck,
dude

Tequila

Listen to Holydoc. +1

Huck344

Holydoc wrote:

I am wondering the same thing as Michael. Have you tried listening to music in Pure mode without the sub? Do you still get the drop offs? If your system sounds fine in pure mode, then you have a sub adjustment problem. Place that cross over around 80hz.

Also make sure your front speakers are in phase and not cancelling each other out.

Finally I am assuming you left the jumpers connected to your speaker outposts and that you are not trying to bi-amp or bi-wire. If you removed the jumpers, you will not get the full frequency sweep of your speakers.

The fronts are in phase.

Regarding the speaker connections, they actually are bi-wired. It was my understanding that bi-wiring was better. Are you saying that it would be better to not bi-wire??? Ugh! The more I think I know, the less I actually know!!!

Holydoc

Tequila wrote:

Listen to Holydoc. +1

Woo Hoo! Never thought I would see that! Take a picture!

*walks around bobbing his head and talking smack*

Holydoc

Huck344 wrote:

The fronts are in phase.

Regarding the speaker connections, they actually are bi-wired. It was my understanding that bi-wiring was better. Are you saying that it would be better to not bi-wire??? Ugh! The more I think I know, the less I actually know!!!

Try them with the jumpers in place and not bi-wired just to see. You may have inadvertently hooked them up wrong causing you to lose some signal. It can't hurt to try it out to see.

Huck344

Ok, so I hooked the jumpers back up and the signal was much flatter (less loss). I don't understand???

On another note, I must be the biggest idiot/klutz in the world. As I was removing the cap of one of the binding posts to put the jumper back on, it slipped out of my hand, bounced off the power port cover and directling into the port and into the speaker cabinet. It took me over a half hour to get it out!

Ron Temple

Try disabling the crossover on the sub entirely. Aren't you using a PBUltra?. Seems like you have eliminated some of the problem already.

Huck344

Ron Temple wrote:

Try disabling the crossover on the sub entirely. Aren't you using a PBUltra?. Seems like you have eliminated some of the problem already.

I have the PC Ultra. The crossover is disabled.

jimi64

Huck-not familiar with your receiver,but I assume it has a sub pre-out,if thats the case,set your front speakers crossover at 80,turn off the subs crossover and you should be good to go.I have a pair of those speakers set up like that and the mid bass is far from lacking.I run those with an Onkyo 787.One last note---your not the only one to drop a binding post cap and have it bounce into the speaker-been there done that

Willow

Before I added my monoblocks, using only my HK 335 to power my rti8s. I had the xover set at 60 the mid-bass from the speakers was good, even better when amped but then the sub didn't have as much work @60hz so I bumped it back up to 80, not sure what I like most. So all that to say def. try 80 if not 60.

af chief

I just got my RTI8s/CSi3 and also have the 804. I slapped them in and thought the same thing when playing music. So I took the sub out and put the speakers at full and they woke up.

Switching to "pure audio" tamed the brightness. Then I bi-wired with 12g and I'm sure that made an improvement.

Once I was satisfied I re-added the sub to the system and played with the settings/placement until I was happy.

For now, I ended up running the sub from the preouts and the RTI 8s full, telling the amp "no sub". I use "pure audio" for music and adjust the sub depending on what I'm listening to. I'm sure my method is flawed, but I'm good for the moment.