which sennheiser ???

liordra

After some extensive research I have narrowed my options to 3 sennheiser models: HD 485, HD 555 and HD 580. I have listened to the 485 and loved it. I also listened to the 580 and was deeply impressed, how ever I did't get why the price tag is double. I did some more research (club polk forums helped here) I have learned that the 580 shines when driven by an amp (hp amp ofcourse) something that I might consider in the future.

I have to place a online order in the next 36 hours.
for the time being any thoughts from the Headphone experts will be appreciated

thanks...

sucks2beme

Because it's twice as good. Go over to the Headfi site and do your homework.
The hd580's with a decent small headphone amp will sound great.
This includes homebrews like a cmoy ar cha47.
The hd580 at the current online pricing is the bargain of the year.
But don't take my word for it. Research!

Sami

How do they sound w/o an amp? I might get some decent headphones as well but most likely I'll be limiting myself to sources from computer soundcards and sometimes from iPod. I just want something decent to listen with while on the road, and possibly while on the computer playing games.

Price does seem like a bargain to me.

sucks2beme

Amazon has them at $129 shipped. They sound much better with an amp.
The hd590's are easier to drive without. Some preamps can drive both of them ok.
There are many better choices for portable/pc use. If that's the case, go with the lower end models, or maybe a set of Grado's. Sami, there is a
Grado dealer over in Dallas, and a Senn dealer in FT. Worth(Marvin Electronics). Marvin carries the full Senn line!

Joey_V

Had the 650s with a Headamp GS-1 Class A amp.... was it better? Yes. How much better? It was significantly better as everything was more precise and things had "volume" and took up tangible space.

Given that, the amp was quite expensive for the amount of stuff that was inside.

I got out of headfi because I began to realize that headphones by themselves werent outrageously expensive for the most part, but it was the amps that killed the "cheapness" of the hobby. For $800 that it cost, the headamp is an itty bitty amp while for $800, one can get a large Rotel amp.... just dont know how they charge that much in the headphone world.

Joey

dorokusai

The Headfi gear is grossly overpriced and overhyped as there are handfuls of great head amps that cost much less. The MF X-Can series is excellent. It IS cheap, you just didn't look hard enough.

Joey_V

dorokusai wrote:

The Headfi gear is grossly overpriced and overhyped as there are handfuls of great head amps that cost much less. The MF X-Can series is excellent. It IS cheap, you just didn't look hard enough.

I looked, dont assume that I didnt.

The thing is, most of the better ones are notoriously expensive, starting from the HeadAmps to the Singlepowers to the Ray Samuels. The MF isnt necessarily a niche company that is spawned around headphones and because they're mass market, they can afford to levy the price a lot lower.

However, that doesnt change the fact that most of headfi gear is ridiculously expensive. Someone will always pay what they charge, I just chose not to go and indulge in that audio arena anymore because I just didnt see it being economical for myself anymore.

However, there are always the cheaper amps, from the MF XCan, to the PPA, the CMOY, the Pimetas... even the M3. However, most headfi will recommend something a bit more eccentric that those and that's where the trouble starts. So, just be careful if you head over to headfi, OP.

My comment was on a more general scale, that it gets expensive real fast and real quick if one is not careful over at headi... just my 2 cents and a general warning for the OP.

Joey

sucks2beme

That's why the hd-580 is a good deal. Whip up a CHA47 amp for about $50 and you're set. I currently have a used tube amp that cost $200 that sounds great. The same applies here at club Polk. There's ok, then there's nuts. The key is knowing when to stop. Shop for a good headphone, used gear, and good values. If the cheaper headphone makes you happy, then go for it and don't look back. There's always better gear out there. Just say no!!!

dorokusai

JoeyV - You made a generic statement, you got a response, relax. Now that you volunteered some additional information, I'm much more aware of your entry into that genre of audio, wouldn't you agree?

I read at Headfi often but I don't post at all. I'm aware of the eccentricities of that place as its no different than Audio Asylum....nothing new here. Those folks at HFi are as crazy as some of us over here and I mean that in a good way.

danger boy

you think Senns are pricey. check these babies out.. price retail $3750 includes the amp.. i bet you could get them for a cool $3500 :eek:



http://www.yamasinc.com/srs-727II.htm

sorry for the hijack. suckers..

dorokusai

I may as well add it here since I can't use a forum tonight for some reason.

JoeyV - I've heard Ray Samuels, EAR and owned some early Headroom stuff a few years ago. I'm all for unique and against the grain gear and that place will turn you in a positive direction....as you mentioned, possibly not good for your wallet.

Joey_V

Doro,
Dont read my post as anything more than it was. I have mucho respect for you.

Anyway, while we're on the topic of insanity gear...

If you thought the Stax O2 was expensive, you obviously have not seen the Sennheiser Orpheus... $15K for the amp and headphone pair... the headphone can be found for about $5-7K depending on the seller and how much he wants to profit from you.


And if you didnt think that was excessive enough, for all you dynamic cans (not electrostats) fans... here is the mother amp.... the Singlepower SDS-XLR, from what I know, it can be tweaked to be well over the $12K retail mark. For a headphone amp... yikes.



And here is the price list and upgrade list for the SDS-XLR amp:
http://www.moon-audio.com/Singlepower.htm

That's what I mean by getting too expensive too quickly. The headfi crowd is notoriously overzealous... if you thought I was overzealous, I'm nothing compared to many of the posters there.

Just an FYI for the OP, it's nice gear, it's nice ****... but if you do go to headfi, keep your hands to yourself and know that the HD580 and a good amp like the MF XCan (as doro recommended earlier) will get you a farways beyond normal headphone listening.

Good luck on your headphone journey.

Joey

dorokusai

Joey - Great pics I know, this bracket is as insane as the next. Back at you, as I had to edit the earlier sarcasm because it was unneccesary, sorry about that

sucks2beme

I was at the DFW Head fi meet a couple of weeks ago. I got to see/listen to the Senn HE60, Audio Technica ath-L3000, and the Stax. My stuff was at the low end of the spectrum. I wasn't too upset.
It's like looking at Wilson watt puppies. Nice, but not going to happen at my house. The only thing to really tempt me was the new portable Peter Millett hybrid tube amp. Tube power in a PDA sized package!

The amps are expensive because they are made by hand in small numbers.
Like I said, just say no! There are a huge number of people that whip up a cheap homebrew, or buy a used amp. There are a huge number of great headphones out there. Many of them sound as good as the better speakers people use here. They're a lot easier to hide from the Mrs. too.:D
Liordra, once again, do some homework. go to the headfi site. Do some research. There are cheap cans that will fit the bill. Not just the Senns, either. Good luck with your search.

dorokusai

Headphones are the red headed stepchild of "high end"....neglected and misunderstood. It's not a replacement for a 2CH experience but an augmentation of the whole idea.

I believe it to be the most uncolored form of reproduction due to the absence of room interaction in particular, which can be huge. That being said, there is alot to be had in the whole body experience, physically & audibly, that a formal 2CH/HT rig can provide.

If you NEED to feel things physical, stick with a normal rig but if all you care about is the audio spectrum, why is it so far gone that a pair of headphones can't do it? PPL usually blow off headphones as lame and low-fi but I've been happily running cans for a long time....perhaps by circumstance, but if not, wouldn't have known shite.

You know what the main reason was? My wife, who requires sleep from time to time due to something she calls work.....pffft, sleep? WTF is that? Meanwhile, I'm in headphones....but its nice to have something hardcore for friendly visits

liordra

sucks2beme wrote:

That's why the hd-580 is a good deal. Whip up a CHA47 amp for about $50 and you're set. I currently have a used tube amp that cost $200 that sounds great. The same applies here at club Polk. There's ok, then there's nuts. The key is knowing when to stop. Shop for a good headphone, used gear, and good values. If the cheaper headphone makes you happy, then go for it and don't look back. There's always better gear out there. Just say no!!!

Well ... the person responsible for the "just say no" duties around my household is the wife (lets just say I have some other expensive hobbies).

Now I am researching the CHA47 model. It looks spot on at this point, other then some reliability issues (some say it heats up).

sucks2beme , did you have any issues with that amp ??? anybody?

Joey_V

dorokusai wrote:

Joey - Great pics I know, this bracket is as insane as the next. Back at you, as I had to edit the earlier sarcasm because it was unneccesary, sorry about that

Doro,
The written word is hard to decipher... dont worry my good man... I knew you meant no harm. Know that I meant none either. It's a lot easier if we were face to face and we could talk, but this is what we're relegated to, so we do our best. Know this, regardless of how I appear from what I write, if it's towards you, it's with the utmost utmost respect.

We're cool and we'll always be cool. No problem about earlier, no need for apologies.

Anyway, I didnt know you were also into headphones! I used to be heavily into that, moreso than speakers for quite some time there... but I stopped before I got too deep into it as I felt I wasnt getting anywhere with the improvements in reproduction. BUT, there isnt a day when I dont stop by headfi and oogle and drool over some of the gear there.

Sometimes, my finger twitches and I want to build another head-rig.

Damn these cool looking head-amps and headphones.

sucks2beme

liordra wrote:

Well ... the person responsible for the "just say no" duties around my household is the wife (lets just say I have some other expensive hobbies).

Now I am researching the CHA47 model. It looks spot on at this point, other then some reliability issues (some say it heats up).

sucks2beme , did you have any issues with that amp ??? anybody?

The only issue it had was the big Senns were a tough load. The drove it for me well, but if you like it loud, they may come up short. I had it in a small desktop case with an ac adapter. Ther are other units available that to a better job(PPA comes to mind). Many of the DIY amps are pricey only because they use only the best parts. If you want to just write a check,Audio Advisor has the Antique Sound - HB1 Hybrid Tube Headphone Amp for $250. I am using the ASL MG Head with NOS tubes. Used, THe MG Head was a good deal. Just be patient and look around. Some good amps come up on Fleabay.

dkg999

I'm hoping that the ASL HB1 is a pretty good introduction to headphone amps I'll be driving the Grado SR-225's with it. In my limited experience, I've found my Grado SR-80's work better for movies using the HT headphone mode on my Yamaha HTR, but the SR-225's are a little precise for movies, but sound fantastic for music. I'm hoping the headphone amp takes the music experience up a notch or two!

mulveling

dorokusai wrote:

Headphones are the red headed stepchild of "high end"....neglected and misunderstood. It's not a replacement for a 2CH experience but an augmentation of the whole idea.

I believe it to be the most uncolored form of reproduction due to the absence of room interaction in particular, which can be huge. That being said, there is alot to be had in the whole body experience, physically & audibly, that a formal 2CH/HT rig can provide.

If you NEED to feel things physical, stick with a normal rig but if all you care about is the audio spectrum, why is it so far gone that a pair of headphones can't do it? PPL usually blow off headphones as lame and low-fi but I've been happily running cans for a long time....perhaps by circumstance, but if not, wouldn't have known shite.

Yes, I agree. I've yet to hear a speaker rig with purity of tone & sheer resolution of the Sony MDR-R10, or the well-behaved bass, musicality, & superior PRAT of the Audio-Technica ATH-L3000. My friend's got a killer Thiel CS7.2, Parasound JC-1's, top-notch Ayre phono & pre, Super Scoutmaster vinyl rig - heard it numerous times - and I still say those two headphones on a good headphone amp ($1100-$3000) are better in those areas. Right now the L3000 is the only way I can hear bass with killer extension, power, articulation, and texture without *any* nasty room modes or resonances. The room required to reproduce bass with such accuracy for speakers would have to be the right dimensions and treated up the wazoo...not to mention some pretty special speakers.

What a great speaker rig can do that NO headphone can - is presence. Those Thiels have presence like nobody's business. Resolution, prat, tonality, etc, aren't too bad either. It can really fool you into forgetting you're listening to speakers (no small feat for such huge beasts); it's just like going along for a wonderful musical ride - very, very involving. Actually I've heard my Legacy Sig III's in the same setup and they're not too bad at this either

mulveling

Joey_V wrote:

Doro,
And if you didnt think that was excessive enough, for all you dynamic cans (not electrostats) fans... here is the mother amp.... the Singlepower SDS-XLR, from what I know, it can be tweaked to be well over the $12K retail mark. For a headphone amp... yikes.

Just an FYI for the OP, it's nice gear, it's nice ****... but if you do go to headfi, keep your hands to yourself and know that the HD580 and a good amp like the MF XCan (as doro recommended earlier) will get you a farways beyond normal headphone listening.

A few months ago I got to hear a $19,000 totally maxed out SDS-XLR with a pair of balanced Sony R10's (the high serial # version with improved bass). It was great and all, but it was way beyond the point of diminishing returns for me. For rock/pop/metal, I still prefer the $2K L3000 on a good unbalanced amp ($1K-$3K) - that's the pinnacle of the headphone world for me. The $5K R10 is more for classical/opera/jazz/acoustic/vocal lovers. I couldn't tell much improvement on the R10 driven by the $19K SDS-XLR over a slightly upgraded $3K unbalanced SDS, either.

I do find that the L3000 is well worth the cash over sub-$2K headphones - but that's just me