Which Plasma To Select

scottvamp

tommyboy wrote:

This is what I don't understand. Why does everyone consider the CRT out-dated technology but LCDs and plasma can't even give the PQ CRTs can but are proud when they come close.

At least the change from cassettes/VHS to cd/dvd was a big picture/sound upgrade.

Just curious, did you make that 5-1 score yourself?:rolleyes:

I see your point but i don't think refresh rates can get much quicker. But these numbers do show that newer LCD's don't have the motion problems of earlier models.

The new 5 to 1 score is just an unbias pro and con based on new LCD numbers compared to the ones on the web site when the artical was first written. No more no less. In my years i have had top of the line 36" and 34" CRT models. My first computer was a 17" Sony Trinatron, that i paid over $500 for. And i am confused how these pre-HD tv's are better in PQ than any other type on monitor technology. I have not seen any great reduction in PQ.
Though i think HD has helped change how we see new technology.

Normanality

If this damn bickering keeps up, I might have to haul both of you'se out to the woodshed.

Basic details, both good and bad about both LCD's and plasmas is all folks are looking for. You can argue all damn day and nothing will change :rolleyes:

I'm disappointed with how most stores fail to setup their displays. LCD's are washed out and plasmas are set to ultra color.

The only dealer worth his weight in gold was Runco. Both types of displays were amazing, but even he was very opinionated. All I want is a good clean image to watch general cable programming. Trying to separate fact from BS is becoming more and more difficult.

JimBRICK

LuSh wrote:

Jim,

I'm going to make one last post. There will no further posts from me. It boggles my mind that I've been dumb enough to engage somebody who has very little understanding of whats going on. You've already been quoted giving wrong information on a television.

The light meter doesn't determine a televisions performance. Your eyes do. But what the light meter does is ensures that the display is performing to a level or standard so all settings are equal among all televisions. This is vital in properly being able to judge with ones eyes. With out having displays calibrated to correct settings arguing about picture performance is a moot point because nothing has balanced and you're comparing apples and oranges.

To break down this further for you, as you have had a constant struggle digesting this basic and bare bone way of testing anything in both audio or video, I will use speakers as an example. Most of the forum understands audio and therefore things should be layed out nicely for everybody to see.

In the world of video it is just as important to ensure all levels are matched as well. It is called Kelvin and correcting a greyscale. These light meters dont measure the televisions performance, they match and LEVEL light to a standard. That standard is 6500k and every television is set to this standard. After televisions are set to this standard then they can truely be compared and only then.

Because you have no comprehension or working knowledge of these standards I have more or less called you out. Another poster called you out when you incorrectly identified a television as 1080p. I have already outlined my experience with televisions costing thousands more then anything found in your show room. I have given a gereral guideline on how to calibrate a television and why it is important. I have used industry standards that are still in practise today and are used in all new technologys both for today and for tommorow. I have drawn a direct analogy to video standards using audio standards. I have outlined who uses CRTS and plasmas over LCDS. I have described to you how performance in audio or video hasn't always led to a success path for certain technologys. And given you and the OP direct comparisons to older technology's.

You have told us you work in a retail audio/furniture store. And you look at the televisions all day and talk to rep's. You use your eyes. To some you might be "keeping it real"

Your evidence to support your case is overwelming. And as such I rest mine.



On a side note...here are some useful links for the OP and anybody else interested in learning.

All you've done is tried to make everyone think you are the only one who knows whats what with tv's around here and that plasma is better than lcd. It doesnt matter what you argue when your wrong. I could be joe schmoe off the street and see that any NEW lcd is better than a plasma. thank you for not posting anymore cause if I have to hear about your useless OLD facts about technology from 2 years ago. THings change in electronics and if you can't change with them then your going to be left behind.

and to your "ive seen tv's more expensive than you sell" line. I've looked at the mona lisa and thought my sons finger painting was more beautiful. so price means nothing.

janmike

Normanality wrote:

... All I want is a good clean image to watch general cable programming. Trying to separate fact from BS is becoming more and more difficult.

Thanks, I could not have said that better myself. Goodnight, I'm done here as well.

maingey

JimBRICK wrote:

All you've done is tried to make everyone think you are the only one who knows whats what with tv's around here and that plasma is better than lcd. It doesnt matter what you argue when your wrong. I could be joe schmoe off the street and see that any NEW lcd is better than a plasma. thank you for not posting anymore cause if I have to hear about your useless OLD facts about technology from 2 years ago. THings change in electronics and if you can't change with them then your going to be left behind.

and to your "ive seen tv's more expensive than you sell" line. I've looked at the mona lisa and thought my sons finger painting was more beautiful. so price means nothing.

wow, you are angry. good luck with your lcds.

JimBRICK

thank you

crd2002

fujitsu makes one of the best plasma I have ever seen

lonwa

I do not post very often, but here is my 2 cents:

I would have to agree with anyone who is saying Plasma is still the best large screen technology (excluding front projection of course) out there.

I own a 2 year old Pioneer Elite 50 inch Plasma that has been professionally calibrated, and well used. I would have to say even though its 2 years old, it still blows the latest flat panel LCDs, and micro rear projection TVs (DLP, LCOS and LCD) out of the water. To me there is no comparison, and I have seen a lot of different TVs to compare it with.

Now with that out of the way, although I believe Plasma is still the best, I do believe that the flat panel LCD technology will eventually overtake Plasmas; in size, image quality, and price. Here is why:

LCD flat panels are nothing new. Laptops have had them for the last 15 years, and the quality has only improved. The main hurtle LCD manufacturers need to overcome is the motion issue. LCD's originally were designed with a static image in mind (basically a computer desktop). Because LCD is relatively new to large format TVs (the last 3-4 years), that is where the most improvement must be made.

Obviously resolution is not an issue, as 1080P+ is already attainable with LCD technology, and only now Plasma manufacturers are offering 1080i/p displays (which are very expensive). Contrast and brightness are also excellent on LCDs. Price is the next part that is really limiting the LDC technology, as to get the highest quality LARGE screen LCD is more expensive than the plasma at the same size, (with better quality too). However, since LCD technology is not new, and all manufacturers have to do is tweak existing manufacturing plants to produce larger formats LCD TVS, I believe the cost to produce them will be significantly lower than that of plasma. What this all means (in my humble opinion):

Plasma is currently the best you can buy; BUT - Plasma is a dying breed, and will completely disappear from the market in the next 3-5 years.
LCD flat panels will overtake the flat panel market, and the quality, size and price will blow the old Plasma displays out of the water.

I must preface this post:

I am not an expert in anything above. I am an enthusiast, and do a lot of reading up on the subjects, and try and get out to stores and friend's houses to see all of the different technologies out there. Do not take any of what I say as the absolute FACT about anything. Everyone has differing preferences when it comes to video quality (and Audio quality).

My best recommendation to the original poster "Which Plasma to Select,"

Get out there and see for yourself. I would recommend staying away from most big resellers as they tend not to have the displays optimized at all for longevity and picture quality accurateness. Go to people's homes, go to small mom/pop TV stores, and talk to people. I usually can tell very quickly if some knows anything at all about TVs and electronics in general - by asking them simple questions I already know the answers to. Most big resellers do not have very knowledgeable sales people (at least that has been my experience in the past).

I hope this helps the original poster or anyone else out there.

And also to the haters out there, please don't yell at me too much about this post, I am a very sensitive person.

Thanks for listening

Lonwa

janmike

Thanks Lonwa. Nice post with intelligent, mature comments.

VXR8

janmike wrote:

Thanks Lonwa. Nice post with intelligent, mature comments.

Hey janmike,

Totally agree with the above.:D

So what did you decide after all these different posts? I suppose at the end of the day, you want the best bang for buck at what you can afford at the time. Also, it has to be what you see is the best picture quality. These forums can certainly guide you in the right direction, but it will be what you see with your own eyes that will make the final decision for you.

As you previously stated, you like sports, so IMPO if you're choosing between LCD and Plasma, I'd give the thumbs up to Plasma, alone for the lack of ""drag" as per your earlier comparo post between the 2 types of flat screen.

I have no doubt JimBRICK has numerous LCD / Plasma displays he compares on a daily basis, but as he rightly states, he hasn't had a Pioneer Elite or a Fujitsu plasma for that matter, to compare against the LCDs.

As previously stated by other posters in this thread, you need to compare apples with apples. JimBRICK may have the top of the line LCDs possibly in stock, but without either of the 2 above mentioned plasmas, it's apples and oranges. For me, Fujitsu nails it with their AVMII chip (and to be fair to Pioneer Elite, I haven't seen that display to compare it to the Fujitsu).

As per Lonwa's post, some of my post here is personal opinion, but before I forked out $9000 AUD ($7089 USD), I looked into my purchase and compared all options, display types etc. before deciding on the Fujitsu - nothing else IMHO came even close. Fujitsu's standard definition Plasmas don't even compare to their HD range.

Anyway, let us know how you go and what you finally purchase.;)

janmike

I will be traveling to Edmonton near the end of March so I will have some time to visit quite a few stores and do some comparisons. I am leaning toward the 50" Panasonic 1080p. Nothing definite at this time. What I would like to do is have a look at the Sony XBR’s and see how this one compares to the plasma. Two things - it will be 1080p and approx. 50". The Pioneer is outside what I would like to spend. The above two are also in my price range.

capecodder

Just came to this party, I'm too lazy, and too many posts to read. Does anyone have an opinion of LCD vs. Plasma?:rolleyes:

MikeC78

^
:d Lol!!

Holydoc

capecodder wrote:

Just came to this party, I'm too lazy, and too many posts to read. Does anyone have an opinion of LCD vs. Plasma?:rolleyes:

!!!!

tonyb

Just love these spats over this is better than that.Plasma and LCD/DLP will both fall to the wayside simply because of maintenance issues and cost of repairs.LCD/DLP with bulbs and fans to suck in smoke and dust,not exactly user friendly.Plasma's...well...try getting someone to repair one for under a grand.The newer technology sets will take over.As all things in life...change is always going to happen,for the better I hope.Used to be you plunck down 500 bucks on a CRT and the damn thing would last 15 yrs with min. repairs.Now greedy corporations want you to spend 2-5 grand every 5 years for a set.Add in the cost to fix these things and you will see that they have become throw aways,when in need of repairs.So which is better??? Hell,how
much cash you got?? PQ is important but you do have to look at the other costs involved and your envirement.Get whatever floats your boat,just have cash in hand....every 5 yrs or so.:)

ViperZ

...I haven't read the whole giant discussion above...

In my opinion, Pioneer is leading the way right now, but they are more pricey - I will still give them #1.

2nd is Panasonic, and these TVs definitely have the best bang for a buck. If you don't need 1080p support (I personally don't need it since I upconvert to 720p/1080i, and love the picture), then prices on 720p/1080i 42" and 50" plasmas have tumbled like crazy. I mean, $1100 USD for 42" high-end Panny at Fry's???

Regarding plasma reliability... Yes, older panels were not that reliable, blew pretty often (I am a proud owner of an amazing Sony plasma TV, which managed to stop working after a year). Now, consumer panels are in their 9th generation, reliability HAS improved. Although, it's not even close to CRT reliability, I think it's pretty good now.

willis60

If you are unsure about which product is best check read expert reviews. Using PriceGrabber.com(http://www.pricegrabber.com/info_expertreviews.php/masterid=20953836)
I came across a cool site that list all expert reviews for a product in a single page. I hope this helps: http://www.smartratings.com/electronics/plasma_and_lcds.

Holydoc

willis60 wrote:

If you are unsure about which product is best check read expert reviews. Using PriceGrabber.com(http://www.pricegrabber.com/info_expertreviews.php/masterid=20953836)
I came across a cool site that list all expert reviews for a product in a single page. I hope this helps: http://www.smartratings.com/electronics/plasma_and_lcds.

Some good links Willis. Love that name BTW. Reminds me of an old sitcom.

Though I own the Panasonic plasma, I am a bit curious how it got ranked higher than the Pioneer plasma. I have always heard that with the amount of user adjustable features on the Pioneer that it was a bit better. I guess everyone has their own opinion.

All I know is that I dearly love my plasma. Thanks again for the links.

janmike

Well after some viewing down in Edmonton (Pioneer, Sony LCD, Panasonic...) I have opted for Panasonic 50" plasma – 10th gen. The local shop here in Yellowknife attended a video show in Toronto a week ago and they sat in on some very interesting seminars. And sitting about 12 ft. away from the screen I am wondering how I could tell the difference with my eyes. Things happen after 50.
Besides that, I just purchased a MF Tri-Vista 21 DAC and a pair of Proac Response 2.5 speakers. There is not way I go in debt for this stuff so the audio/kitty is getting low. I still need to find some decent speaker cables soon and I am probably looking at MIT league. Besides the wife is thinking new washer/dryer, home renovations, vacation, and don't forget about 2007 POLK FEST…. I am sure the rest of the family will enjoy the plasma. Thanks for all the help folks. I know, I may be making the wrong decision in the eyes of some of you, but audio is my priority.

willis60

Holydoc wrote:

Some good links Willis. Love that name BTW. Reminds me of an old sitcom.

Though I own the Panasonic plasma, I am a bit curious how it got ranked higher than the Pioneer plasma. I have always heard that with the amount of user adjustable features on the Pioneer that it was a bit better. I guess everyone has their own opinion.

All I know is that I dearly love my plasma. Thanks again for the links.

Actually, the difference in the ranking is very small, only 3%. I heard a lot of good things about Panasonic plasmas. Some consumers prefer them over Sony and Samsung.

janmike

And here is the Panasonic. Sor far so good.

engtaz

Nice choice and nice setup.

kalgiers

*edit*
whoops... should read till the end of a thread before I post.

JimBRICK

jan that setup looks awesome dude good work, and for the tv I saw my first one last night and I have to say that this model is the best plasma I've seen in my store. the ten gen panel in it is WILD