Recommendations for a system balanced between music and movies

jkn

I've been looking at speakers with a lot of help from my coworker McLoki - it's great having someone very into this hobby only a cube away... Especially since I know almost nothing about HT.

One thing I keep hearing is that some speakers are better at music and others better at HT. I'm looking for a solid balance between the two - or maybe leaning more towards music.

My wife and I used to have very nice Studio Lab (Ratshack) stereo speakers - which are now in storage - too huge for our small 880 sq foot house. I have a pair of Mackie HR-824 monitors in my studio - which I use for recording / mastering - but I want those to stay where they are. I record too little as it is - and to have to move equipment around every time I want to turn something on - just won't work.

We're borrowing McLoki's old RM series sub/sat speakers and bought a Yamaha HTR-5960 AVR after our 5 yr old Sony theater in a box died. Note - the Yamaha has pre outs.

Budget is preferably less than $1,500. My wife and I prefer new speakers if possible - for some reason we just run into a too many problems with used. I know this really limits things.

Our living room is about 13 x 20 ish - and some major traffic issues. We originally planned on bookshelf, but we both think we want to go with floor speakers at least for the fronts due to how wimpy music sounds through smaller speakers.

Another coworker has four R50's - which sound really great for HT and good for music, but not quite the presence and clarity I'd like to hear.

Since the Monitor's seem to have replaced the R's - I'm wondering if I need to rule those out? Or possibly Monitor 60's would be a bit more in line with what I'm looking for vs. how much I want to pay?

I've read a number of times that the RTi's are more geared towards HT and not music. LSi's, of course, would be amazing - and definitely the sound I'd love to hear, but buying new really puts them out of our budget, especially since we'd have to get amps to drive them.

I've also been recommended to look at Energy's - which we didn't care for the lower and mid range 'look' very much. And Paradigm's which I haven't seen yet.

As far as looks alone go - the LSi poly ebony is a perfect match for my piano in the living room - so my wife prefers those without having heard them. I like the looks of those as well for what it's worth, but ...

We plan to split the purchase into chunks - with front and center first.


These shots are old and we've rearranged a few things - but the tv armoire on the left in the first shot is still there so you can get an idea of what the room looks like (sort of...). The piano, couch, and chairs also haven't moved much. The hidden tv is a Sony 27" trinitron.


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Early B.

Focus on building the best 2-channel music system you can, then take your time and build an HT system around it. Best of both worlds.

BTW -- a good speaker handles both music and HT well. If a speaker does only HT well, then it's time to try another set of speakers, IMO. The Lsi series is a good start.

Also, it's a good thing you have McLoki to advise you.

jkn

Yes - he's been a great help and I've seen (and heard) his system evolve over the last few years. I've always focused on either buying music equipment (the analog modular was my last big investment...) or end up buying dvd's instead of saving up and getting a better system to enjoy them on.

pblanc

I too don't understand how a speaker that sounds great for music could not be great for home theater. All movies, after all, have music on their soundtracks. I have had speakers that sounded OK for home theater that did not sound very musical, however.
I would get a pair of either LSi 15s or LSi 9s depending on whether you prefer floorstanders or bookshelves and go from there (assuming you have equipment to power a 4 ohm load). If you can't afford a center channel speaker right away, you can use phantom mode on your receiver to simulate one. It's not as good as having a center channel speaker, but the LSis image so well it will sound quite acceptable. If you want a 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1set up, you can use lesser speakers for surrounds temporarily (I used RT25s for a while and they sounded fine) and then move up to LSi 7s, LSi 9s, or LSi FXs later. If your ultimate goal is a 6.1 or 7.1 system, consider the possibilty of buying a pair of LSi 9s and using one as a center channel speaker, and one as a rear center (6.1 setup). Definitely cheaper than buying an LSi C and a pair of LSi anythings for rear surrounds (and I happen to prefer the sound of an LSi 9 center to that of an LSi C).

pblanc

PS: I also have a Yamaha 5960. I am basically using it now as a pre/pro with external amps except for a pair of presence speakers, which are run off the AVR. The Yamaha will handle a 4 ohm load for the front and center speakers only. There are going to be many immediate responses to this post that the 5960 is utterly inadequate to power LSis and you must have an external amp. I agree that to bring out the best in LSis you probably will wind up buying an external amp at some point, but I can tell you from personal experience that the Yamaha can power LSi 15s or LSi 9s and sound good if you don't plan to play them extremely loudly. If you like the sound of the LSi series I wouldn't hesitate to go that route. If you eventually wanted to run LSi surrounds, however, you would definitely need a seperate power amp. If your budget is $1500 and you never plan to spend a dollar more, look elsewhere, but if you are willing to build over time, buy a pair of LSi 15s now from acousticsoudndesigns.com and hook them up to your Yamaha. Ironically, I found that the LSi 15s are seemingly easier to power than the LSi 9s. Obviously, before spending $1500 on anything, I would try to listen to it first, since speaker preferences are very subjective, but you asked for specific advice, so there you have it.

shack

Some speakers tend to be on the bright or "accurate" side of the spectrum. These are well suited to HT IMO. Movies are predominately spoken word and sounds and speakes that have that level of clarity for movies are often fatiguing for extended music listening. Entry level B&W fall into that category for me. Some prefer the accuracy of these speakers for music as well, but I prefer a more laid-back, smooth sounding music speaker.

The LSis seem to do well in for both. Could you afford the LSi7, LSiC and LSiFx (or anther set of LSi7s) if you spaced out your purchases? The 7s and a small sub, then the LSiC followed by the rears could make a very nice HT rig. If you watch carefully you could may pick them all up used for your budget of go "grey" market if you don't mind the risk of no Mfg. warranty.

And the Yammy could probably do the job in a small room until you can upgrade down the road.

zombie boy 2000

Some speakers may be a bit too laid back for HT. I've heard extremely "musical" speakers that I wouldn't even consider putting in such a system.

zombie boy 2000

With all due respect, I find Yamaha to be exceptionally well-suited for HT (power requirements considered), but not the best choice in a search for "musicality".

Just my experience with my dad's set-up and the experience of others on this Forum who find their systems to be too "bright" for music when incorporating a Yamaha component into their rig.

McLoki

If only you knew someone who had LSi's you could listen to.....:cool:

Bring over your Yamaha and we can hook them up to it. You can hear for yourself what sound you will get running your Yamaha on some LSi's and also what benefit a power amp will get you. (we can just switch channels as we want to over to my amp, using your Yamaha as a pre)

I would listen to some other brands just to verify the sound you like. (B&W, Paradigm, Polk and Energy are carried in local shops around here) You have the opportunity to listen (with your AVR) to the top (LSi) and bottom (R series) of the polk line and compare with just towers, add in a center, add in surrounds, separate amps, etc. all at no cost other than time.

This is a long term investment - investigate and listen as much as you can. Once you decide on a brand or sound you like - start planning out what you need to purchase first, second, etc. If you don't have the money to purchase what you want - purchase in stages when you get the money. (As Early B said - build a good 2 channel system first and then expand it into a home theater)

The planning stage is where you want to go slow and save money. If I can help (other than with the payment ) let me know.

Michael

Ricardo

So.....not much work being done at that office I guess.....audio talk all day

Early B.

I just wanted to add that if you're gonna set up a nice 2-channel system, then I'd suggest the Yamaha not be used for this purpose. You need a higher quality int. amp or amp/preamp combo.

jkn

Well... audio talk between working.

I've heard the LSi7's - but not the LSi15's yet. I've loved the sound of Mick's system for awhile (the SVS is very nice... ). He's also being very generous and loaning me the RTi's he just got from the karma for a couple days to try out in our room. I'm very excited about it - and can't wait to hook them up.

I definitely plan to buy everything in stages. I've been building up my music gear for 20+ years - a piece at a time - I can be patient when I need to be.

I definitely need to get out to the stores and try some others. I'm only sort of 'sold' on Polk right now because I've heard them at Mick's - I know he likes them - and of all the speakers I've seen and heard so far (which is definitely a limited number) - they're the ones that look the best and look well built. Obviously, I love the sound of Mick's system and I like the sound from the R series at my other coworkers - I'd either like to find something in between the R's and LSi's - or decide that I need to be at least at the LSi level for a long term investment.

btw, I found the Klipsch speakers to be too bright (so did my wife).

zombie boy 2000

jkn wrote:

I've been building up my music gear for 20+ years - a piece at a time - I can be patient when I need to be.

Just like the Man in Black himself -- Johnny Cash:D

pblanc

Check out www.crutchfield.com scratch and dent specials. Polk LSi9 $849.99/pr and LSiC 467.49 ea. You can get 3 speakers for $1317.48 no extra charge for shipping. Then go to www.the twistergroup.com. Go to home audio/speakers/stands and order a pair of Studiotech SP-30 stands for your LSi9s for $67.12. You will probably have to add about $20 to the kitty to get these shipped. Total investment $1404.60. That leaves you about $100 for some decent speaker wire and bannana plugs, and maybe a dozen roses for your wife (never hurts). If you don't like the speakers, send them back to crutchfield within 30 days for a full refund. They will have a full warranty. I have made many scratch and dent purchases from crutchfield and have never seen any visible damage on anything. I think basically they are selling things that customers returned within 30 days because the didn't quite like them (or because their wives made them).
Don't forget the roses.

steveinaz

FWIW, I've never heard a good musical speaker that wasn't good with movies, however, I have heard "HT speakers" that were NOT satisfactory for music.

Bottom line, I'd recommend you focus on musical reproduction.

mwaarna

pblanc wrote:

PS: I also have a Yamaha 5960. I am basically using it now as a pre/pro with external amps except for a pair of presence speakers, which are run off the AVR. The Yamaha will handle a 4 ohm load for the front and center speakers only. There are going to be many immediate responses to this post that the 5960 is utterly inadequate to power LSis and you must have an external amp. I agree that to bring out the best in LSis you probably will wind up buying an external amp at some point, but I can tell you from personal experience that the Yamaha can power LSi 15s or LSi 9s and sound good if you don't plan to play them extremely loudly. If you like the sound of the LSi series I wouldn't hesitate to go that route. If you eventually wanted to run LSi surrounds, however, you would definitely need a seperate power amp. If your budget is $1500 and you never plan to spend a dollar more, look elsewhere, but if you are willing to build over time, buy a pair of LSi 15s now from acousticsoudndesigns.com and hook them up to your Yamaha. Ironically, I found that the LSi 15s are seemingly easier to power than the LSi 9s. Obviously, before spending $1500 on anything, I would try to listen to it first, since speaker preferences are very subjective, but you asked for specific advice, so there you have it.

I purchased my LSi9's from acousticsoudndesigns.com 700 shipped New. They came with original packaging, and serial numbers intact. They shipped the LSi9's double boxed as well, which was perfect because the outer box had minor damange, but the box inside was in perfect condition. In about a week once i have my HT setup i will post all unpacking and setting up pictures.

jkn

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and advice so far.

McLoki

A 50/50 split between music and movies is pretty much in line with what the LSi series was made for. In the Polk line they will fit best into your requirements (everywhere except budget).

Other speaker lines and manufacturers will offer a different sound than the LSi's, but you will be hard pressed to get something better for less money. (i.e. - the Paradigm line that compares to the Polk LSi does offer a different sound and could be argued either way based on what you like - but it will cost the same or more.)

Get your listen on and start saving your dimes and pennies.

Michael

TennesseeOutlaw

HTrookie wrote:

So.....not much work being done at that office I guess.....audio talk all day

Exactly what I was thinking!! :rolleyes:

madmax

Four of the LSi 7's and a center make for an unbeatable music AND ht system given their sound and cost.

wingnut4772

The Von Schweikerts are really good for both.

Midnite Mick

Went through the thread but I don't think I came across this. Are there any impedance issues with the Yammy and Lsi?

Mike

Midnite Mick

I have also heard Ushers for both and they were also excellent. Actually 5 of the S-520 may just fit the bill. Have not heard that model myself but heard that people can't believe the sound that comes out of the little things. If you want a little more you could also get the bigger bookshelves for your mains.

Mike

pblanc

The LSi speakers are all 4 ohm nominal impedance. The Yamaha can accept 4 ohm speakers on its front channel and center channel amps only. Speakers connected to the presence, side surround, or rear surround channels must be 6 ohm loads or greater. Of course, you can use your preouts and hook up to any amp you wish if you want to use LSi surrounds.
I have used that amplifiers power section to run both LSi15 and LSi9 mains (not at the same time, of course) and either an LSiC or LSi9 center channel. I never had the amp go into thermal protective mode, but I did notice that if I turned the volume up rather loud, the speakers sounded a bit strained which I think was due to the lack of headroom. This is easily solved by adding an external amp at some point. I still think you would find that the LSis sounded good using the Yamaha for now. You should not try to use that receiver to run LSi side or rear surrounds, however.

jkn

If I go LSi (and admittedly, I was leaning towards LSi before I started the thread) - I'll have a separate amp once I buy all the speakers.

McLoki is letting me bring my Yamaha over to try running a pair of his LSi's - to hear what the difference is between the Yamaha with and without an amp. I don't know how soon I'll get over there - but I'm looking forward to hearing them with some songs I know well and with different amps.

I still haven't figured out how I'm going to get any of these speakers in the room. The two doorways right by the tv - the fact the tv armoire is on the left side up against a wall - and on the right is the doorway to the kitchen (ouch) - makes both towers and bookshelves a problem.

Thanks again for everyone's time and thoughts.

jkn

UPDATE:

I got the unplanned opportunity to drop by McLoki's house at lunch yesterday to listen to his LSi's. First off - awesome - and his new great dane puppy is a riot. Since my dog is 17 - having a puppy around (especially that big!) - was fun.

Mick threw in a couple of Elton John tracks that we'd also listened to on the four R50's at our other coworkers house. The piano sounded more like a piano - well, everything sounded more 'alive' - the string section, harp, etc.... Of course - I'd truly hope they would sound substantially better based on the massive cost difference as well as the time and energy Mick's put into setting up his system.

We then watched an episode of Stargate SG-1 - certainly no complaints on the LSi's ability to do HT...

I had grabbed a case of cd's I had with me at work - while not necessarily the best picks from my collection to demo speakers on - I do know all of the tracks well and have heard them on many systems.

We played bits and pieces from:

Medeski Martin and Wood - Last Chance to Trance Dance (earlier collection)
Chemical Brothers - Dig Your Own Hole
Juno Reactor - Pistolero e.p.
Sly and the Family Stone - Greatest Hits

I wanted to hear the piano, acoustic bass and drums on some of the MMW tracks (earlier stuff from them off of Notes from the Underground) - everything sounded clean, very 'real'.

With the Chem Bros/Juno Reactor stuff I wanted to hear thumpier bass / electronic stuff and how that would come out. It was great - but a bit laid back. This would sound a little better with a more in your face slightly more aggressive sounding system - but 80% of what I enjoy at home anymore is not in this category.

The Sly 'greatest hits' disc I wanted to play because I've always hated how bad it sounds - the music transcends the bad sound quality - but I was curious how it would translate. Sure enough - it sounded worse. A great system truly does make a bad disc sound bad...

Mick threw on a Norah Jones dvd - and wow - what a great 5.1 mix on that live recording!

Primarily - Mick kept the demo to his LSi15's - and we kept switching between sub and no sub. On first listen to just the LSi15's - I immediately thought - wow - I can go a loooonnnngggg time without adding the sub since these sound so deep and amazing. On the other hand - Mick flipped his nice SVS sub on - and the sound just jumped to another level of depth and dimension. I think adding the sub really let the LSi15's shine. It's humorous how quickly I went from being able to go without the sub - to wanting it all now (of course - I can't afford it all now... Once we took the sub away - the sound seemed to collapse back into themselves. Dimension and depth seem to be the best words I can come up with for the difference. The LSi15's are amazing by themselves - they're stunning with a sub. When they don't have to push the bass frequencies - they really shine.

Overall - wow, I'm extremely impressed. I really loved the sound. The LSi's are very laid back - and Mick tells me his NAD amp is also very laid back - so the combination makes them possibly more laid back than they would be with a brighter pre. With our main music listening (at least at home) being older jazz and what XM terms 'electronica chill' music and then I tend to listen to ambient (both beatless and closer to minimal techno) frequently - these all pair nicely with a smoother laid back sound. The LSi's sound like they would be perfect in my house, well, except for the cost.

Next up... Mick let me borrow the RTi6's yesterday - and unfortunately I couldn't get them hooked up last night, but will tonight.

While I've thanked him multiple times in person - I'll thank him on the forum as well... thanks, Mick!

John

jkn

My wife hooked up the RTi6's yesterday afternoon since she got off work early... I'm really impressed! Not as good as as the LSi's over at McLoki's (no surprise there...) - but they sound great in my living room.

I threw in several of the same things that we watched/listened to on the LSi's - and I was impressed. Called Mick and he had me drop the crossover to 80hz (from the 200hz I was using on the tiny RM speakers...) - and the difference in sound coming from the RTi's was very noticeable.

My wife and I will continue trying these out - but now that I've had at least a brief chance with four Polk lines (R50's, RM, RTi, LSi) and various Klipsch speakers (demo'd in a less than ideal big box store situation...) - I might have found that sweet spot between sound quality and cost... We'll see - more testing yet.

Ron Temple

6s or 8s with a nice sub might be a great compromise solution for you. They are very nice with music, just not quite as mellow or laid back. If you want to upgrade later, you will still get an opportunity to upgrade later (probably from someone here).

Shizelbs

My choices for speakers I would consider for a dual system:

LSis, Dali monitors, Martin Logans.

The Dalis and MLs make very nice and classy on wall surrounds.

jkn

Budget is really pushing the LSi's (and that level of speaker) out - as with everyone, there are other things that need to be bought (the cold snap has reminded me that back door needs replaced, not to mention the whole house plumbing replacement that's due! eek...).

I really like the RTi6's - they sound nice with a sub. We watched a couple movies and listened to a lot of XM jazz - which is a very typical thing for us to do on a weekend. I've also been happy with how my cd's sound on the them.

I need to return the RTi's to McLoki this week, but already my wife is ready to buy. I'm hoping for clearance sales soon...