DVD-A / SACD Player with HDMI Vers. 1.2a

VXR8

Hi guys,

Just upgraded to the Yamaha RX-V2700 from the RX-V4600 and am now looking for a compatible DVD-A / SACD player with HDMI version 1.2a (at a minimum). Have surfed the manufacturers sites, but they still are coming out with HDMI version 1.1 even in their latest offerings (same as my DVD-S2500).

As the 4600 had the dual ilink for SACD playback and the 2700 doesn't, I want to be able to play SACD through HDMI. I have the expensive Tara Labs analogue cables, but they just don't cut it in comparison to digital.

Any hints and tips would be appreciated.

PS - we don't always get the same equipment levels in Oz for the same product that is available in the US and Canada - an example is my 2700 doesn't have HD Radio, XM or Neural Surround like you offering does there. Oz doesn't have satellite or HD radio yet.

Ciao.

PolkWannabie

All versions of HDMI are backward compatible ...

VXR8

PolkWannabie wrote:

All versions of HDMI are backward compatible ...

Thanks PolkWannabie - that isn't my issue. My issue is that HDMI Version 1.1 doesn't playback SACD. My current Yamaha DVD-S2500 has version 1.1 inbuilt, even the very latest Yamaha DVD-S2700 SACD / DVD-A player also has version 1.1, and that player isn't even available here yet in Oz. What I need is a DVD / SACD player that has version 1.2a or higher in it, as 1.2a up does play SACD through HDMI. My current receiver has 1.2a, so I just need a player to match.

Thanks in advance.

F1nut

I have the expensive Tara Labs analogue cables, but they just don't cut it in comparison to digital.

That's because you're using the DAC(s) in your AVR, which must be better than the DAC(s) in your all in one box. Get a better source and I think you'll find that analog cables are far superior to digital.

VXR8

F1nut wrote:

That's because you're using the DAC(s) in your AVR, which must be better than the DAC(s) in your all in one box. Get a better source and I think you'll find that analog cables are far superior to digital.

Thanks F1nut - any suggestions on a better source?

F1nut

Is DVD-A important to you or would an SACD/CD only player do the job? Can you keep your current DVD player for video? How deep are your pockets?

VXR8

F1nut wrote:

Is DVD-A important to you or would an SACD/CD only player do the job? Can you keep your current DVD player for video? How deep are your pockets?

No - I can keep the current player - no problems. How deep are my pockets - probably no where near as deep as I'd like, but hit me anyway with your suggestions on a SACD / CD only player. I understand the Reference Series Marantz SACD players are top notch?

F1nut

Some of the better ones (you have to start somewhere) in alphabetical order.

Esoteric X series
Marantz SA series (1,11,14)
Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista or kW models
Sony SCD-1 or the modded players from Modwright
Wadia 581

A lot less money, yet seem to be respectable, are the universal units from Denon and the more expensive Exemplar modded Denon players.

VXR8

Thanks F1nut,

Hooked up the Tara Labs cables last night, as I hadn't hooked them up on the latest AVR, but had only on the 4600. My test disc is War of The Worlds, but by the sounds of it I need Dark Side of the Moon to see how good SACD can sound. I'll pick it up today and give it a whirl - the Hybrid version apparently according to all the other forums on this site. I'll see how it goes from there, as WOTW sounded better than how I remebered it on my previous AVR.

Thanks again and ciao for now.

cheddar

I haven't looked at this stuff since I bought my old dvd-a player. I hadn't realized that hdmi is also becoming a conduit for the high resolution audio stuff. I honestly don't know enough about how HDMI works with sacd/dvd-a, but hdmi 1.3 seems to give you the option of passing a DST signal for decoding at the receiver/pre/pro.

In any case, the ps3 is an HDMI 1.3 compatible sacd player (may not give you what you need at 1.2a). I have no idea about the quality as I just found out they were passing these signals via hdmi. But here's a link to more info...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=785221

VXR8

cheddar wrote:

I haven't looked at this stuff since I bought my old dvd-a player. I hadn't realized that hdmi is also becoming a conduit for the high resolution audio stuff. I honestly don't know enough about how HDMI works with sacd/dvd-a, but hdmi 1.3 seems to give you the option of passing a DST signal for decoding at the receiver/pre/pro.

In any case, the ps3 is an HDMI 1.3 compatible sacd player (may not give you what you need at 1.2a). I have no idea about the quality as I just found out they were passing these signals via hdmi. But here's a link to more info...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=785221

Thanks cheddar,

That certainly is an interesting read. It's a shame that my current AVR "dropped" the dual iLink connections that my previous one had (Yammie RX-V4600), as I'd have DSD in full flight and SACD playback in digital. I contacted Yamaha as well to see if there was an option to "upgrade" to HDMI Vers 1.2a within my current player (DVD-S2500), but their response was this wasn't possible. Even the latest DVD-A / SACD variant available in the US and Canada is the DVD-S2700, still with HDMI 1.1 - this player isn't even released here in Oz yet and I would have thought being a new release, it would have had at least 1.2a if not 1.3. Even the Marantz high end players are also still HDMI 1.1, so I think manufacturers aren't giving consumers what they need. I have a Panasonic DVD Recorder, with HDMI 1.2a installed standard, but it isn't an SACD player - why can Panasonic do it, but not the major electrical components we all would consider purchasing?

The PS3 is being released here in Oz on March 23 2007, so I'll grab one when they are released. As HDMI 1.3 was released after 1.2a, it certainly will cater to what I need. The current 1.1 version in my DVD player does cater to DVD-A, but 1.2a or 1.3 will also cater to SACD playback. Thanks again for the info and now I can't wait to get the PS3.

cheddar

Happy to help out. I really think the ps3 is underappreciated for all its attributes as a quality av device. I think the old head of the division that developed it packed in so much stuff when he might have just cut corners that he was moved out of his position for it. The fact that so many other manufacturers are behind the curve seems to speak to how rare this is these days.

Anyhoo, sony seems to have worked out all their production delays. There should be quite a few systems available for the european/australian launch.

F1nut

It's interesting to me that you're more concerned with the type of connection rather than the quality of the sound.

VXR8

Thanks cheddar and F1nut,

I am interested in both connection and sound. I have already researched and hunted down some of the SACD / CD only players you mention here in Oz F1nut, and they range from $1500 AUD through to $4990 AUD.

Given my very basic set up as opposed to some of the more die hard members of Club Polk, I have found that with my set up, digital to my hearing (and it is personal opinion) is superior to analogue. Don't get me wrong, I have grown up in the analogue era and not all digital products sound as good (such as compressed MP3 files), but optical connections over the analogue connections IMO are hard to beat.

Just on PS3, that would have been a given for me anyway - SACD or not (I wasn't aware it was a SACD player too until cheddar mentioned it). As like a lot of the other members, I like keeping up to date with the latest gaming consoles. At the same time, I haven't written off the SACD / CD only players either, as I do appreciate good sound with nearing 3000 original CDs, I can only benefit from good quality equipment. For the record, I'd also hook up this equipment via the optical connection for normal 2 channel plus the 6 channel discrete analogue connection for SACD.

Anyway, thanks again for all your input. I suppose my bugbear with HDMI is that manufacturers aren't keeping up to speed with the latest versions for their latest offerings.

Ciao for now.

F1nut

Ok, let us know how it turns out.

maingey

F1nut wrote:

Some of the better ones (you have to start somewhere) in alphabetical order.

Esoteric X series
Marantz SA series (1,11,14)
Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista or kW models
Sony SCD-1 or the modded players from Modwright
Wadia 581

A lot less money, yet seem to be respectable, are the universal units from Denon and the more expensive Exemplar modded Denon players.

If not the upper end, the Marantz dv6001 or vc6001 or higher may do the trick also....

VXR8

Just an update guys,

I was lucky enough to obtain both Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon Hybrid SACD and also Dire Straits Brothers In Arms 20th Anniversary SACD today. I gotta tell ya, all that crap I went on about analogue not being as good as digital is just that! DSOTM and BIA sound sensational via the Tara Labs Prism 1100 cables. My Yammie 4600 I previously owned didn't have the Burr-Brown DACS as the 2700 does.

Not only has it changed my thoughts on analogue cables (good quality obviously), but it appears to have bought the RTi10s to life, like I have never heard them before. I've had them for about 4 months now and I would utilise them as 60% music, 25% cable / DTV and 15% HT. One very satisfied and converted customer!! War of the Worlds doesn't compare in SACD format to these other 2 - this was part of my downfall thinking analogue wasn't as good.

Thanks anyway for all your feedback, as if it wasn't for your input, I wouldn't have even plugged in the analogue cables at all. Now to try and track down some Outlaw 2200 in the land of Oz.....

F1nut

Excellent!!!

lloyds

Hello, VXR8 ---
VXR8 --- I appreciate the thread that you started as I also look for an SACD player that outputs DSD thru HDMI 1.2a or higher... Did you happen to find any new models. Its such a shame that there are AV receivers especially Marantz that seems to have implemented this functionality amazingly professional, but no players. Any news you may know? I am based in Boston USA so please let me know. Also I read the thread and noticed that some members do not seem to understand what you meant even... Thank you.

lloyds

VXR8: Similar problems with SACD players supporting HDMI 1.2 or higher

VXR8

lloyds wrote:

Hello, VXR8 ---
VXR8 --- I appreciate the thread that you started as I also look for an SACD player that outputs DSD thru HDMI 1.2a or higher... Did you happen to find any new models. Its such a shame that there are AV receivers especially Marantz that seems to have implemented this functionality amazingly professional, but no players. Any news you may know? I am based in Boston USA so please let me know. Also I read the thread and noticed that some members do not seem to understand what you meant even... Thank you.

Hi lloyds,

Thanks for the feedback. The only player that I have found with 1.2a or higher will be the Sony PS3, released here in Australia on 23 March 2007. This actually has HDMI version 1.3, which will provide SACD playback through HDMI. All the latest offerings from Marantz, Yamaha etc all still appear to be running version 1.1 - 3 versions back!!

My current AVR has version 1.2a (Yammie RX-V2700), so why doesn't the latest Yammie available in the USA also have 1.2a (Yammie DVD-S2700)? That unit isn't available here in Oz yet, but it has the same version of HDMI (1.1) as my DVD-S2500 does

So, when PS3 is available here, I'll be purchasing it anyway (not primarily for the SACD component), but will be able to compare digital to analogue when listening to SACD. Even though I do have a new appreciation of the discrete channel analogue connections, I'd still like to compare the 2 variations.

When I do find a stand alone player out there with 1.2a or higher, I'll let you know.

Thanks again for your feedback.

PS - funnily enough, my Panasonic DVD Recorder has HDMI 1.2a straight out of the box.