Please Recommend Stereo Components Part 1

PolkThug

Welcome to the forum! (I haven't read your posts yet)

AndyGwis

Hi Sona,

If true stereo sound is what you are looking for, I think there are probably some better options out there for you. Also, if you are willing to be somewhat patient with your purchases and willing to buy used, your options will be much greater. I personally think you can spend $500 on used gear and easily out-do many $1K+ retail gear. . .

The Rti8's seem to be fairly versatile speakers, and, while I don't own them, the few gripes seem to be around missing low end (bass), and musically many think they are a little bright (brittle is what you called them). I would say you have a good ear for music.

I'm sure some people will chime in with some good suggestions. I know you can get an integrated amp that will outdo the HT-themed Denon receivers, or go separates, or find a different brand that better meets your needs. If you search through, there was a thread on Budget 2-channel systems here some time ago (I'll find and post) that gave some very good ideas for pure 2-channel sound.

Stick around, learn some stuff, build a great system without a buck of dough. . . welcome.

AndyGwis

Here it is:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42836&highlight=budget

Also, there are always some good stereo receivers, integrated amps, and separates (pre-amp and power amp) that can be had on ebay and sometimes here for great prices. I would consider going with an HK stereo receiver refurb off ebay, maybe the 3480. I think the high current may help the low-end of the Rti8's, or any other speaker you choose to go with. Not sure if the HK will handle a 4-ohm load, so maybe look for 8 ohm speakers unless you're willing to experiment with separates.

The HK 3480 can be had for $200 or so on ebay and might be a good budget receiver with remote, tuner, etc.

zombie boy 2000

Welcome to the Forum! It sounds as if you have an open-mind, and more importantly -- a passion for music.

You should fit in quite nicely here...

First words of advise (and there will be many, many more).... ditch the notion of a multi-channel reciever. You want two-channel. Stay with two-channel. Be it a two-channel integrated. Or an amp/preamp combo.

Second words.... please, oh please, consider going used. You will build twice the system for the money. And more importantly, you will acclimatize yourself to the on-line trading community. In a hobby as multifaceted and prone to "upgraditis" as this, this is a must.

Third words.... watts don't mean squat. Especially as defined by the good blokes at Best Box or Circuit Sh*tty. The 25 wpc that my Monarchy put out will run laps for days around any 200 watts from a Sony receiver. Point. Fact. Game. Set. Match.


much more to come...

AndyGwis

Edited my previous idea:

NM, someone is probably already camping out at his place waiting. Don't want to create a line of trucks, he might be suspicious.

davidk0512

Welcome to the forum. I've been a long time reader but I'm a new member to the forum as well. My guess is that your RTi8 speakers are going to need a little help from a subwoofer to get something going that you can feel. I believe the Denon receiver at 100WPC is not the problem. I have never heard the RTi8s but based on the specs, I wouldn't expect room shaking bass. I actually have 20 year old Polk speakers that I much more prefer over anything available new today. Check out the Vintage formum and read about the SDA line if you want a wall of crisp, clean, clear sound that moves your soul. There are many different vintage Polk models affordable and available in near mint condition that sound better than brand new. Of course then, you may want to buy a power amp instead to drive 'em. I guess the bottom line is that I'm not that impressed with the new stuff.

pblanc

Interesting posts. My two cents: if you are looking for the silver bullet receiver, pre/pro, amp, and/or speakers that are going to make compressed digital music sound great, forget it. Quite the contrary, I think the better the system, the worse compressed music sounds. A good system has the capacity to really point out the shortfalls of compressed formats. I find that if I listen to AAC audio files at 128 kb bitstream rate on my fairly decent computer speakers it sounds "OK'. If I listen to the same using a good amp and high quality monitors it just sounds "wrong". Instead of cymbals, it sounds to me like somebody is banging on a bunch of empty Hungry Man tin cans in a dumpster with a soup spoon. I quess it is all a question of relativity and appropriateness. Sort of like the difference between a **** in an outhouse versus a **** in church.
I take it you got the Polk RTi 8 speakers? I think going with a two channel system initially is a great idea. You can always expand if you want. I have never owned the RTi speakers. Infininity speakers are popular because they typically are very efficient and sound pretty good for home theater set ups.
Speaker preferences are very subjective but I would suggest you try listening to some Polk LSis or something from the now discontinued RT series if possible. I think both have a musicality and neutrality that Infinitys lack.
I agree that the notion of multiple zones is a joke. You can pick up a decent used 2 channel receiver for a good price on eBay or Audiogon for a second room. Or you can by a set of god-awfull, expensive interconnects, drill some holes in your walls, hook them up to an external amp that will probably cost more than that used receiver, and then buy some Rube Goldberg remote system so that you can control the second zone source and volume from the second room. Am I missing something here?

Refefer

Sona, you win the grand LONGEST FIRST POST EVER award. Welcome to the forum!

One heck of a read to understand what you were asking, but you are answering a lot of questions that would be routinely asked next.

First thing first, heed Zombie Boy's advice. He's balls on when talking about buying used. I don't know what your finances are, but I can promise you, for the $1300 you spent on those RTi 8's and Denon, you can build one helluva 2-channel system if you don't mind buying used.

Any chance you can return the stuff to crutchfield? You did right by buying through them, they are an excellent company, especially with the 30-day, no questions asked, money back guarantee

I'm honestly think you should pick up a pair of used LSi 15's, and a decent pre/pro or 2-channel integrated.

I'm sure you'll get plenty of responses.

Bill Ayotte

As far as 2 ch. goes, Carver Pre's are a pretty good choice as far as bang for the buck. There are a lot of good choices around, so welcome to the addiction.

AndyGwis

Hey, Referer, I was "balls on" about buying used first

Bill, not to get off subject, but what's a good Carver pre for my new M1.0t; preferably with remote capabilities and phono in?

Bill Ayotte

George G. is more of an authority than I about Carver, But I will give it a shot. I believe the C-11 has remote capabilities, but I am not entirely sure. The C-11 is basically an updated C-1, which I have. I cannot remember for the life of me if the C-1 has remote capability, I will look in the manual and get back to you. The C-16 would be a good choice too I believe.

zombie boy 2000

Sona... I think you are skyrocketing out of Newb country with every word you type. Due to your approach, open-mind, and the willingness of others to help out on this Forum, I have absolutely no doubt that you will have a stellar system within 30 days.

I'll try to put together some products and get back with you. Otherwise, I'm bumping this back up so we can all help.

I find this thread refreshing for some odd reason...

VR3

It sounds like you are far beyond receivers, simple speakers and the like.

You seem, by your taste to be in a whole nother price range of stuff. I had your same problem - heard it, it was nice, no real feeling to it.

Id get a nice 2 ch amp, preamp, good cdp - LSi series or higher grade - good cables... see what you think

zombie boy 2000

Quick question.... it sounds as if bass is not much of a priority. Am I mistaken? This would narrow down your search for speakers tremendously...
allowing us to look at bookshelves and smaller floorstanders without having to consider a sub. Keep in mind that while many of the speakers that fall into the aforementioned categories do not dig incredibly deep into the lower frequencies, the bass they do produce can be both musical and very satisfying...

I'm sure quite a few LSi9 owners can attest to this, as can I in regard to my Totem Arros (though they are only rated down to 40 Hz)... Much like watts, very often it is quality over quantity.

wingnut4772

Welcome Sona. It is nice to see another of the fairer sex here on this forum.:) I agree with the buying used sentiment for quality gear at a more affordable price. You can do really well with $1300.00.

zombie boy 2000

I think you're right in describing music viscerally. The ways of achieving complete immersion vary from individual to individual. Some people prefer slam and the "moving of air" to achieve this goal. Other seek out a seductive midrange to showcase vocals. Others prefer the accurate portrayal of instrumental timbre. Some simply seek "loudness".

Many speakers excell in some categories, while falling short in others. Some speakers excell in nearly (if not all) categories, and these tend to be understandably expensive. What is important is to find a pair which suits your needs.

Not to intimidate ya, but the amp, source, and preamp are nearly as important IMO. But we need to start somewhere, and I believe the speakers to be key (and at the very least, the most difficult to change continuously)...

To answer your other question, full-range speakers and bookshelves tend to stand on equal footing when it comes to higher frequencies. The lower frequencies is where the differentiation occurs..

zombie boy 2000

Sounds like your speakers are the sonic equivalent of that crazy aunt at any wedding and the Funky Chicken. Wounded and desparate.

Possibly the Lsi15's?
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1173834309

markmarc

Sona:
First, make sure you break-in the speakers for 100 hours, the tweeters in the RTi-8's will mellow. That being said, they are still a bight speaker (not as intense as Klipsch's by any means). I have also found that the 8's like to be spaced farther apart than most slim towers to create their optimal imaging. I actually went into a store and placed a cut out section of an old t-shirt over a pair of Rti8's. It did help bring the tweeter down a solid notch without sacrificing imaging. i will say that appearance-wise, the cherry veneer is the best looking on the market.

If you chose to go in a different direction, and since you have a solid foundation of what quality audio can do, definitely look into the used market. First thing you need to know is that quality power is far better than quantity power. Second, that in the past few years the "noise floor" coming from integrated and separate amps has dropped quite a bit, making listening even more enjoyable. Jolida and Music Hall come to mind immediately, the difference in sound compared to the Denon is easily appreciated. Both brands are quite affordable.

Third, if you go used (most of my equipment is used) hang around the Polk forum for suggestions, not to mention some great deals from very trustworthy souls. The bang for the buck is terrific.

Fourth, if you move up beyond the Rti8's, three series come to mind on the used market: Polk LSi's, Totem, and Paradigm Reference series. All three are quality, can be found used, and play well with a fairly wide selection of amps.

Fifth, good cabling can be found at very reasonable prices, I suggest Audio Art and Zebra Cables. You will hear a difference, and it won't be your wallet screaming at you.

zombie boy 2000

^^^
Listen to Mark here... he wrote the book on affordable audio (literally)

(and fwiw... thanks for suggesting Totem. I always feel a bit guilty doing so on Polk's website. Call me old-fashioned. Or call me the most amazing specimen you have ever encountered. Whatever floats your boat)

markmarc

LOL, Zombie Boy. Plus, thanks for the compliment, we try hard to be fair.

As for mentioning Totem, as you can see in my signature, I enjoy their sound as well. I think it's important to list options, there is no other way to find what "sound" pleases one's ears the most than by comparing.

zombie boy 2000

Well.. with that in mind, I won't hesitate to offer my full endorsement of anything in the Totem line. Any of their floorstanders can be mass loaded with lead shot if you feel they do not offer enough bass. And either the Arros or Sttafs would fall within your price range.
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/todd28.htm
http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/totem/arro.html
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue10/totemstaff.htm

Their monitors (Dreamcatchers, Rainmakers and Mites -- again for your price range) come with much acclaim as well. Supplemented with a musical sub, you might find yourself with an otherworldly combination.

www.totemacoustic.com

It is important to point out that room size would play a huge factor is determining whether or not these speakers are right for you. The aforementioned floorstanders would excel in a small to medium to sized room, but might not work best in anything larger.

Jim Shearer

I've been trying of think of something at least half-way intelligent to say here.

To start: others have said, and I agree, that music reproduction is an illusion, like a magic show. It will never be the same as having the musicians in the room w/ you. The question is: does the stereo system, like a magician, make a satisfying performance? And what one person likes may make another person want to puke. Just as you wouldn't ask someone else to pick your mate for you, you need to audition (date?) some different equipment to see what works for you. Are you sure that there are no audio shops in your area besides BB and CC? Try looking up some web sites of companies like Paradigm, Totem, Ariel Acoustics, (and Polk, hey you’re here already) or others you find in reviews on the web, and look for their dealer locations. You might be surprised to find several high-end shops near enough to visit. And when you visit, take along CDs of some music you know and enjoy--it’s hard to figure out if you like a speaker when it's playing music you hate. One further caution: a demo room is probably not very much like your living/family room, so speakers may sound different at home, as speakers are affected by placement and room acoustics, BUT, if a speaker is really appealing, then you should be able to make it sound good at home, as long as you don't choose a very large speaker and try to shoehorn it into a tiny room. Likewise, you can't expect a very small speaker to fill a large room with wall shaking sound. And be sure to listen long enough to be sure that the speaker isn't just attention getting in some slick or flashy way; look (listen) for a sound that is full, satisfying, and really draws you in.

As for a sub: when properly set-up (by my standards,) a sub will add to the impact of the music, but NOT call attention to itself. Turning on the sub should make the speaker sound like it just grew a couple sizes.

As to the "empty box" issue w/ the Rti8s: speakers require significant volume behind the woofers to tune their performance. And bigger boxes are usually required to produce lower frequencies. It isn't just wasted space.

As for the audio source: There really is a difference between a portable CD player and a quality, component CD player. And don't get me started on compressed music. MP3 and Hi-Fi have little in common, other than that they both refer to sound reproduction.

Good Luck,
Jim

zombie boy 2000

Well.. if you add my quarter-intelligent response with Jim's half-intelligent response, I think Mark can cover the difference:D Looks like we're on our way....

I have to agree whole-heartedly with the above post. Get your ear on some gear. If for any reason but to have a point of reference. If nothing is to be found nearby, treat Audiogon as your personal audition service. Supplemented with the wealth of speaker reviews out there, it is possible to make an informed decision without first hearing the speaker in a high-end shop. And more often than not, you can sell it right back for the money you spent. No harm, no foul. And all the more wiser on the audio front.

Plus you hear it in your space with your gear and your music. And that can make a world of difference.

zombie boy 2000

Hey, I'm sold on the cheap white trash effect... sign me up. Sounds like you've dialed in your set-up. Congrats. For what's its worth, I have nothing but voodoo instinctual acoustics to guide me. I wouldn't settle for anything less.

So keep groovin' and let us know if it fails ya somewhere down the road.. You wanna talk amps. We'll talk amps. You wanna talk source. We'll talk source. If for now all is kosher and gravy, save your ducets and order out for a pizza.

Less cookin' and cleanin'. More listenin'.

McLoki

Sona,

What City/State are you in? There may be other polk owners near by that can give you and the hubby (if he wants it) a demo of some other gear and give you a chance to see if you like it or not.

Like many here, I purchase almost all of my gear used. If you don't like a piece of gear you can always resell it, but reselling is not for everyone and sometimes it is just nice to know what to expect when you can't easily return an item.

For straight music reproduction (2 channel) - I think you can do better than the RTi8's. I am sure they are very nice for home theater uses - but 2 channel is not their strong suit. Even if you learn to put up with them, why settle for something that reminds you of a feeling you had once? Get something that excells for you and you experience that feeling whenever you want to.

Michael

Loud & Clear

Sona,

You can achieve spontaneous dance again. I've been down the same road, starting roughly five years ago. The first thing I did, after deciding that I wanted to reassemble a hi-fi stereo system after many, many years of not having one, was to walk into the local Circuit City and buy whatever the sales guy told me to. I did. The RT800is (a prior iteration of your jobbies), came home with me and I sat down and waited for the magic to happen. It didn't happen. I read these boards for awhile and liked the idea of Polk's older lines, that were tailored more towards high fidelity and less so for home theater applications. I finally got what I wanted.

Return both the speakers and the Denon. I don't think they can do what you want them to.

By the way, I spin Kate Bush's "The Kick Inside" on vinyl, and there's some bass happening; bass that's not on the CD version that I have. This recording hasn't made my cry yet, but that's because I clench my fists and grit my teeth when I feel that it's about to happen. I can't let my buddies see me like that, even though, they themselves, are openly weeping while we listen together. Good luck.