I Need Turn Table Advice

ben62670

After listening to my new setup for a while I have discovered that there seam to be a lot of music missing in a lot of Cd's I own. After learning about the compression that most Cd's are created confirms this. I am on a super tight budget, and after visiting a couple thrift stores I have found they have many many albums for $1 each. Can anyone suggest a Turn Table on the cheap. I don't want/can't spend much cash on this project. I will eventually get something nice, but for now I just want some bang for the buck.

Thanks
Ben

ESavinon

What's your budject?

ben62670

Really broke trying to keep the total under $100
Typical champaine taste, generic cola budget.
I have no idea what to look for

Thanks Ben

ESavinon

At that price you can find a technics tt on ebay.

ESavinon

Unless you get lucky and find a good tt at a goodwill store or a garage sale.

ESavinon

Keep in mind that you'll need a stylus with that tt.

ben62670

I have been popping in the thrift stores with no luck. I need to hit the ritzier areas here in Ft Lauderdale.

Thanks ES

Crispycircuit

Technic's direct drive so you don't have to mess around with rotting belts. They sold a million of these and should be reasonable. Then get on line for a Grado cartridge.... This should make you very happy and these old LP's are really fun! Old albums are every where........

ben62670

Thanks Crispy

TroyD

I don't want to burst your bubble and I don't say this to be harsh...but for 100 dollars? It's a waste of time if true sound quality is what you are after. Yes, you can get a working table and spin vinyl (which is righteous in and of itself) but to get DECENT playback, it's going to cost more.

At that price point, you are better off saving until you can be serious about it.

Also, compression is also evident on vinyl. Vinyl probably moreso especially with rock LP's simply because of the nature of the format.

Just my .02

BDT

shack

TroyD wrote:

I don't want to burst your bubble and I don't say this to be harsh...but for 100 dollars? It's a waste of time if true sound quality is what you are after. Yes, you can get a working table and spin vinyl (which is righteous in and of itself) but to get DECENT playback, it's going to cost more.

At that price point, you are better off saving until you can be serious about it.

Troy is right on this. The least expensive path to "good" sound for vinyl is $300 - $500. A inexpensive used table and $1 goodwill vinyl is going to sound like....click, pop, screech, etc... and that assumes you have a decent cartridge and stylus that is not completely worn out. Used tables are really hit or miss...you might find that diamond in the rough that will sound excellent...but you have to know what you are looking for. Setup and the condition of all the "parts" is critical. The thread where the vinyl options for wingnut4772 are discussed is a good place to look for a starting point.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47998

There are several entry level tables mentioned to get you started and the tools to clean the old vinyl is a must. If not you will probably tire of the poor results quickly.

ben62670

Troy Shack thats not the answer I was looking for. I am looking for a TT for $100 that will sound like a million, self cleaning, and with a cartridge that will last 10+ years. I'm kinda forced to go with a cheapy for now just to get the ball spinning. Thanks for the direct info.
Ben

TroyD

Again, do what you like but it's going to sound like ****. Not to mention, if you DO pick up some good vinyl, the chances of it getting ruined under those playback conditions are pretty good.

You'd be better off putting your ear to a bowl of Rice Krispies.

BDT

candyliquor35m

If you're patient, I think $100 is reasonable. I'm happy with my Techniques SL-1800 $20 thrift store find that only needed the fine tuning speed controls cleaned with electronic parts cleaner and a Shure M97XE cartridge $69 shipped from J&R. Then when funds permitted a $90.06 shipped AT440lma cartridge from turntableneedles.com mostly for comparison purposes. I don't know if I can hear much of a difference but more listening is needed. Some of these prices are special offers thanks to heads up notices posted here.

Crispycircuit

A $100 TT is better than no TT. Especially if you only have a couple dozen albums. What's the use of spending hundreds when you only have a few albums and are not as critical of this format. Get your feet wet, have some fun, enjoy the vinyl... Then IF you like it and when a great opportunity hits decide then. Hey, a direct drive Technics will do you fine. Start some where.....

strider

Ben-

If you're interested, and have an aptitude for fixing electronic things, you can have my TT for the cost of shipping. It's nothing great, a Luxman (I think) with a tangential tracking tonearm. The good- it has a lower end, lowish hour, Ortofon cartridge installed. I've never calibrated it, but the guy I bought it from said he did. The bad- it powers up, the platter spins, but the tonearm doesn't move from it's rest position. It started by working intermittently, if you fooled with the start button enough, the tonearm would move to the record. Sometimes you'd need to drop the needle using the "down" button. If you're interested, I can get you more info.

(another) Ben

TroyD

Crispycircuit wrote:

A $100 TT is better than no TT. Especially if you only have a couple dozen albums. What's the use of spending hundreds when you only have a few albums and are not as critical of this format. Get your feet wet, have some fun, enjoy the vinyl... Then IF you like it and when a great opportunity hits decide then. Hey, a direct drive Technics will do you fine. Start some where.....

Well, it depends on what you are looking for. In the first post, ben is talking about all the sound 'missing' on CD (which I don't quite buy but that's another discussion), compression etc etc....so I'm going off the premise we are in search of decent sound quality.

I don't care how you cut it, if your total outlay is 100 dollars, I'll show you a vinyl rig that is probably not worth the effort. I've heard and owned a few of these setups. It'll spin vinyl and that will be about it, probably ruining the vinyl in the process. If you are buying used, you are going to wind up, more than likely with a direct drive with some sort of iron spike on the end of a tonearm. If the cartridge is damaged, it can ruin your LP's.

Now the one exception to the cheap TT I've run into is an ARXA or XB turntable. The table itself is ingenious and can be found cheap. The problem therein lies the tonearm. Most of the ones I've come accross were broken (the tonearm is not a high quality item) and, again, the cartridge is probably iffy and in need of a new belt. An entry level Shure cart and new belt is going to run you 90 bucks more than likely. Oh, and good luck setting the stylus force without a guage.

Now, lets just say you DO get lucky and pick up a cream puff of a table and all is well. If you just stick an old record on there, snap crackle and pop. That's what you are going to wind up with. You need a method to clean the vinyl. An Orbitrac cleaning kit runs around 40 bucks, a decent brush is 15. I've used both items and while they do a decent job, the will not eliminate the noise but they will make the vinyl more listenable.

Ok, so now were spinning vinyl on our AR table that's been cleaned by our Orbitrac kit and MFSL brush. What's next you say? Your stylus. Let's just assume that your table came with a PRISTINE cartridge. After two sides of an LP, that stylus is no longer pristine, it is DIRTY. It needs to be cleaned. What now? At the MINIMUM stylus cleaner and brush is probably going to run you 20 bucks.

Again, I'm not trying to be negative, however, enjoying vinyl is NOT a cheap pursuit. Not if you are trying to do it with any sort of attempt at decent sound. I've been down this path and I'm telling you from the voice of experience.

BDT

disneyjoe7

strider wrote:

Ben-

If you're interested, and have an aptitude for fixing electronic things, you can have my TT for the cost of shipping. It's nothing great, a Luxman (I think) with a tangential tracking tonearm. The good- it has a lower end, lowish hour, Ortofon cartridge installed. I've never calibrated it, but the guy I bought it from said he did. The bad- it powers up, the platter spins, but the tonearm doesn't move from it's rest position. It started by working intermittently, if you fooled with the start button enough, the tonearm would move to the record. Sometimes you'd need to drop the needle using the "down" button. If you're interested, I can get you more info.

(another) Ben

If the other Ben isn't interested, I have a interest in it.

zombie boy 2000

Nice post Troy..

as someone who will be receiving their very first turntable next week, you've convinced me I have to pick up a couple of more things before I can even begin exploring the world of used vinyl.

Not even an option until I pick up a cleaning kit/brush.. you have me running scared:D

TroyD

I'm not trying to scare you but it's EASY to ruin an LP. If it's a Ray Coniff special, ok, no problem. However, if you are lucky enough to come up on some nice RCA Living Stereos or Mercury Living Presence LP's, it sickens me to think that someone is grinding that dirt and dust in to the grooves with an iron spike. I can't tell you how many GOOD LP's I've come across that were ruined due to improper care.

People don't realize the amount of PSI that a needle in the groove generates, it's staggering.

BDT

zombie boy 2000

Hey... scared and better off for it, as far as I'm concerned. Good and advise and thanks for it.

ben62670

I am absoulutely listening to every comment on this post, and taking all offers, and info into consideration. I realy appreciate ALL of your post seeing that I know nothing about vinyl.
Thanks Again
Ben

heiney9

A cheap TT isn’t going to get the job done. If you are missing something in your music on cd then you have issues with your source and even a mid priced TT isn’t going to get you there. I was unaware of compression issues on cd’s. Certainly some are compressed more than others but that is no fault of the medium; that’s the producer/engineer creating those problems. Find music genres or labels that care about putting quality recordings out and you won’t have that problem any longer.

Upgrading your digital source will get you much more mileage than trying to assemble a worthy TT set-up (big bucks to get it done right). Check into cables as well as amplification and pre amplification. Each mini-step in these areas will result in the sum of all the parts giving you much more than you could ever realize.

H9

pblanc

It is possible to get a decent turntable fairly cheap, but it is chancy, like buying a great used car for $100. I think if you buy a decent brand from what sounds like a reputable seller on eBay and are willing to installl a new cartridge on it, its possible to find something that sounds decent and doesn't destroy your LPs. Just realize that spending that little is like putting everything you own on red at Vegas. You may toss away your entire investment on something that costs more to make it work than it is worth.

ben62670

heiney9 wrote:

Upgrading your digital source will get you much more mileage than trying to assemble a worthy TT set-up (big bucks to get it done right). Check into cables as well as amplification and pre amplification. Each mini-step in these areas will result in the sum of all the parts giving you much more than you could ever realize.

H9

Hey H9 The problem I'm having isn't that my system is having problems. It works excellent on a lot of material. Maybe the compression issue has me over analyzing the quality of many of my Cd's. I know you have read the post on compression. The problem is with the way the music is being recorded. Now that I have built my speakers, upgraded my cables, and running clean sources I have gotten spoiled by some of the very well recorded music. I have about 200 albums here to listen to if I had a TT, and the thrift stores around here sell records for a dollar. You guys do have to keep in mind I live in a highly populated area where people are constantly moving in and out of. Many people come here from areas of the country that have basements, and lots of storage. They get here lose their house move into an apartment, and give away their albums- replace them with Cd's whatever. I would say there are about 20 thrift stores real close to me all loaded up with lots of records. I see some that were never even opened before, and some that were played once in mint condition, and some of course with deep gouges in them. My taste in music has broadened a lot since I got into this Hi Fi thing a year ago. I would have never listened to jazz or blues before having upgraded my system. For a $1 a piece I will buy stuff I see you guys are listening to. If I don't like it by by out a dollar. The music has become an escape for me. Now with that all being said If I like the $1 album I am listening to I will replace it with a higher quality recording. SACD vinyl whatever. While I'm on the topic where is there a place that rate the quality of the recording, and not just whether they like the music. Most of us are realistically in the top 1% when it comes to total system setup so our taste is a little different than the masses.

Thanks again
Ben

TroyD

You are going to find as much, if not more compression on LP as you do CD.

Compression is a fact of life and it's effect on sound isn't really a problem inherent to a specific format. Otherwise put, LP recording methods are not inherently superior to digital. At least IMHO.

BDT

candyliquor35m

TroyD wrote:

I'm not trying to scare you but it's EASY to ruin an LP. If it's a Ray Coniff special, ok, no problem. However, if you are lucky enough to come up on some nice RCA Living Stereos or Mercury Living Presence LP's, it sickens me to think that someone is grinding that dirt and dust in to the grooves with an iron spike. I can't tell you how many GOOD LP's I've come across that were ruined due to improper care.

People don't realize the amount of PSI that a needle in the groove generates, it's staggering.

BDT

Good points all around. I haven't invested in any vinyl cleaning system except my discwasher which probably only removes surface dust and not the fine dust that has collected in the grooves but my listening habits of maybe 1 album a week if I'm lucky, haven't compelled me to invest anymore. The more entry level tt's there are, the less vinyl ends up in the landfill and hopefully they are going to get cared for better than before like stacking them like pancakes in the garage or closet which warps them.

TroyD

Well, it's not even misuse, really. If you take reasonable care of an LP, it still is going to collect dust in the grooves. One of the biggest culprits is paper sleeves.

BDT