How much volume is too much?

case

Hey all - recently purchased small RM6750 set and Yamaha receiver package. I've set everything up with L/R run thru the sub as suggested, xover set for 100Hz right now I believe.

My question is - at what volume setpoint on the receiver should things be "too loud"? Since the volume knob is digital, I can't tell where "noon" on the dial really is, all I get is -XX dB output. Negative infinity is minimum, but what is maximum? 0dB? What would be the expected -XX dB for sitting in my 10x16 living room listening to a movie at normal volume (ie can still hear normal conversation)?

This all stems from watching a DVD and having to turn up the volume to -15dB in order to hear all the dialogue. Also when watching regular TV, I usually have to turn up to -20dB in order to hear everything (strangely, the commercials come out very loud at this level!) Same for 2ch/5ch, DVD, CD. Haven't hooked up the radio yet.

I'm worried much that any higher and I will risk breaking the speakers. The reciever is rated for ~100W/ch. Maybe this is a sub/sat mix issue, but I think everything sounds quiet, not just male vocals. Maybe these are just small speakers. Any opinions appreciated!

Thanks
Case

TN_Polk_Lover

I'm a relative newbie myself when it comes to Home Theatre. I just purchased an HT receiver this Christmas and am still toying around with it. I also bought a DVD which helps you set up everything and has some onscreen tutorials on HT in general. The DVD is called "The Avia Guide to Home Theater" It is a little dated as far as the TV screen technology they discuss, but all in all, I'd recommend it.

Everyone correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm going off memory here. Movies are setup to have a maximum sound level pressure in a real movie theater of 105 db (maybe 110?) I can't remember for sure. Anyway, the soundtrack is supposed to be "adjusted" so that that is the maximum level. This is considered the "0" reference level and anything below that would be negative.

If your receiver has an auto setup routine with a microphone, or if you run the setup routine and adjust the levels with a Sound Pressure Level (SPL), then when you set your volume control to "0" and play a movie, you are listening at the same level that the movie producer intended it.

Most people find that level too loud for home viewing. My AVIA DVD suggests setting the "0" level 10db lower than the reference level. Now that I think about it, these standardized levels may only apply to a movie that is "THX" I think that level might be part of the THX standard.

I hope this helps a little. Again, I may be wrong on the actual db level that is "0" reference, but you get the idea.

IanD

case wrote:

Also when watching regular TV, I usually have to turn up to -20dB in order to hear everything (strangely, the commercials come out very loud at this level!)
Case

This seems to be the norm for just about every cable provider in N.A. It drives me nuts cause the wife is always grabbing the remote and turning the volume down when a commercial comes on and she always forgets to turn it back up when programming resumes. I think it is time to buy her her very own Harmony. Do they make a model that has Volume only?

TechGrunt

Hi there,

I also have a yamaha (htr-5860) and your description of level difficulties reminded me of an effect that I noticed when I was first playing with my system. I found that using prologic on tv brodcast produced highly variable levels from show to show and from show to commercial on top of the usual boost that commercials are given (by compression at the sorce). It 'seems' that there is a level drop when non surround sorces are processed. Now, not knowing your model of receiver I am going out on a limb here, try listening in just 2ch mode and see if the effect is reduced any. Also try some of the cinema modes, the manual can help you choose the appropriate one for the source you are using.

As for the the dB reading it appears to be using full output power as the 0 reference and the - readings are the approprate amount below that point. Now without going into the math bits I expect that they are using voltage as the reference which would put -20dB at 10 watts (if my math is buggered up apologies - maybe someone with better audio base will pop in and fix if in error) At any rate it is another type of reference no different than 0 (-99dB) through to 10 (0 dB) on the old dials.

Now, to give you a feel for levels that I am using. Typically, I watch tv in the -50 to -40 area, depending on station levels. This is at a distance of about 8 feet from speakers. Now when I saw your levels my first thought was OW! Are you using resonable size/lenghts of speaker wire? Are all connections solid? Are all polarities matched? (That is, red to red to red and black to black? This one can really mess with levels and how they sound to you. Watch for that silver wire/ribbed wire on the speaker cable)

And last bit, does your Yamaha have YAPO? If so, have you used it to trim your system? It can catch and fix a number of problems and save a lot of messin' around.

If it doen't have YAPO than you will have to setup the system manually for distance to speakers from seating area, speaker size, etc. to trim the system.


Hope this helps a little. I'll pop back in to see how you made out. Enjoy your new toy

TechGrunt

F1nut

How much volume is too much?

Simply put, when you see flames shooting out of your tweeters, that's too much volume.

hearingimpared

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA again!

cfrizz

Thanks so much Jesse! I just love spewing water all over my monitor!:rolleyes: :eek: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

F1nut wrote:

Simply put, when you see flames shooting out of your tweeters, that's too much volume.

Holydoc

F1nut wrote:

Simply put, when you see flames shooting out of your tweeters, that's too much volume.

Agreed. That is why I always keep extinguishers close to the speakers with a little sign that says "Break Glass in case of Flaming Tweeters".

Ricardo

Step 1: buy the extinguisher just in case.

Step 2: balance your speakers & sub output with an SPL meter; you can use the test tones in the receiver.

Step 3: sit down and enjoy; those levels are "normal" (meaning you should NOT be able to hear your wife talking to you....)

reeltrouble1

You guys are too much!!!!!!!

Case let me add a little bit to the others,

The commercial thing is just to get your attention so the broadcast gives a db boost to the signal. There are receivers that can adjust for this.

OK, you need to go to Radio Shack and buy a Sound Pressure Level meter, they cost 30-35 bucks. If your reciever has test tones for each speaker, sit in you listening chair and set the dial on your receiver to "0" do not move it, you then need to use the individual trim levels for each speaker until the meter reads 75db, C-weighted, Slow. Do this for each speaker, with the sub set it at 81db, your speakers are now balanced, with "0" as reference, listen at whatever level you like, but it should stay under 0, if you have problems let us know.

There are set up discs from Avia, you calibrate a bit higher with the test tones on this discs to a THX certified tone, you can buy this disc if you like from the Polk Store on this site, they will give you a discount if you call and tell them you are a member.

Good Luck and Have Fun. When you see folks saying I listened at say 15db down from reference this is what they are talking about. "0" is the reference point as it is easy to remember, if you cant reach that point any number will do you just have to remember what your reference number is.

Since I am old school I use the meter, the yapo I have used for others seems to work ok, so if you have that it is a good place to start.

RT1

case

Hah! Thanks everyone for the input - I guess the original issue was that I was afraid to turn it up loud enough so I couldn't hear my wife She says if they catch fire I'm not allowed to buy another set for a while soo.....

I did give the little YPAO mike a shot, and it did a little balancing. It screws up the crossover because the fronts are large and fed thru the subwoofer, sub set to off - it auto set the receiver xover to 160Hz. So i knocked teh xover back to 80 I think. Double checked wiring also and it's OK.

I think it's making enough sound, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't way out on my setup. Also great info on the 'reference at 0' bit. Didn't know about that at all. I'm definitely not listening at 0 - hurts! Thanks everyone.

case

tonyb

F1nut wrote:

Simply put, when you see flames shooting out of your tweeters, that's too much volume.

Jess....sometimes I think both oars are not in the water....
but,.....Damn...you crack me up!!:)

McLoki

The sound level is a dolby digital thing. At reference level (most AVR's would put this at "0" with calibration) the peak from any channel should not exceed 105db. Since all channels are set to small with 80hz crossover in the dolby (or is it THX?) spec, the subwoofer can peak at 115db.

If you play a DTS track - all bets are off as they calibrate to whatever they want and it is usually louder (or at least more dynamic) than the DD track.

With my pre calibrated to reference level, I usually play movies at -15 to -20. If the house is quiet and kids are asleep, I play it at -25 to -30 (with the "night mode" level set to 50% or 75% compressing the dynamic range of the soundtrack). I often will demo my system to others at -10. While it will play louder than that without problem, louder than -10 is just to loud for me in my living room.

For everything besides DVD's (VCR, Broadcast TV, CD's, etc.) there seems to be no standard and I turn it up until it is comfortable (and mute commercials). If the sound starts to distort or the soundfield starts to collapse - it is time to turn it down, you are hitting your system limits. (granted flames from the tweeters would be an excellent indication of going to far as well)

Michael

Sansui

When your ears bleed...

I used 80 as my reference for setting my speakers with Radio Shack's SPL meter.

VXR8

Howdy Case,

Sounds like your Yammie is mid to high level for their receivers, as you have YPAO. I have the latest RX-V2700, which within the menu has "Volume Trim" for each component, so when you switch inputs the volume can be maintained across all inputs. It also has a "Maximum Volume Setting" within the menu, which goes as high as +16.5db, so even if you listened at '0', you have a long way to go.

Cheers

beardog03

F1nut wrote:

Simply put, when you see flames shooting out of your tweeters, that's too much volume.

wwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


I`m keepin this one bro...!!!

beardog03

Rats !

Say`s my sig is too long already !!!