Ok I am ready to Take The Plunge.....

wingnut4772

I am ready to take my first foray into vinyl but I have no idea what I will need (besides the TT and the records:D ). I am looking at getting a Pro-ject III. What else will I need to get to get it going in my set up? I don't see a phono place on my Anthem D2 so what does this mean for me? Sorry if this is rudamentary but I am a little lost here.

Also , I have no real room left on my front stage so I was thinking of placing the TT back a bit to the rear of the sofa and just running whatever length of cables to whatever I need wherever...ok idea or crap? TIA

TroyD

COOL

The Project is nice table. Yeah, you are going to need an outboard phono stage to go into your pre/pro.

Put it whereever it works best, I say. Vinyl is a VERY worthwhile idea!

BDT

Fireman32

I just got into vinyl thanks to Troy and I got the NAD PP2 pre for christmas and when I hooked it up it was awsome. I never though records could sound so good. You wont be dissapointed.

zombie boy 2000

Awesome Darla...

I'll be purchasing the Project Debut III myself in the next three weeks... I was just planning on picking up their $119 Phono Box MK2 to start out with.
http://www.musicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=ASUMPHONO

Let me know what you think in case I need to change any of my plans at the last second;)

pblanc

If your reciever does not have inputs labelled "phono" you will need a phono preamp. You can do a quick search on Froggle for "phono preamp" and find units for as little as $40. On the other end, you can spend thousands for a phono preamp. The signal coming from a phono cartridge has much less gain than from a CD player, tape player, tuner, etc. and needs to be boosted. You also need to apply an RIAA equalization curve (Recording Industry Association of America) to the signal. When records are cut, low frequencies are deemphasized (which results in less excursion of the record grooves so that more music can fit on the disk) and high frequencies are boosted. By having the RIAA curve deemphasize the highs at playback, surface noise is reduced.
In addition to a turntable you will also need a cartridge. The cartridge is the transducer on the end of the tonearm that carries the "needle" or stylus. If you are buying a used table, the cartidge may or may not be included. If it is, check and see if a stylus replacement is available. You can change the whole cartidge if needed. Like phono preamps they go for anywhere from about $20 to thousands of dollars. They also come in multiple flavors: moving magnet (common) and moving coil (high end). Moving coil cartridges may be low gain or high gain. If you have a low gain MC cartridge you will need a preamp that boosts the signal more. The odds are a first turnatable will have a MM cartridge.
I have attached turntables to receivers using long RCA interconnects without any problem. You can also put the phono preamp in an intermediate position between the TT and the receiver. I have used long shielded RCA "patch cords" designed to hook up auto amplifiers for this purpose with good results.

unc2701

If you're going to do a long cable run with phono, you probably will want to put your outboard phono stage right next to the TT. The lower-level signals are a lot more susceptible to noise.

The Pro-ject is a very solid table and comes with a decent cartridge.

Early B.

Nooooo, don't do it, wingnut! Be afraid -- be very afraid. For once you go down that road...

TT temptation is a hearty dish where the appetite can never be satisfied.

Oh, how my heart trembles in fear for you...:eek: :eek: :eek:

Run! Faster, I say, run faster!!!

Early B.

Well, if you're gonna insist on doing it, then do it right the first time, 'cause you're not gonna be happy until you do. Set a budget of at least $2-3K.

IMO, of course.

shack

The Project is a very nice table. I almost bought one myself. I ended up with a Goldring GR-1.2. The tonearm is based on a very highly thought of Rega design and the cartridge included is a Goldring Electra which is better than most entry level cartridges. As I understand the cart and the arm are easily worth the cost of the entire table. This is was literally a plug and play setup. Very easy and very nice.

The Project is definitely a good choice, this is just an alternative. I bought mine at AudioAdvisor. Here is the link if you want to take a look.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=GOGR1%2E2

This is a great "entry level" table. Just be prepared...it is only the beginning.

Ricardo

pblanc wrote:

If your reciever does not have inputs labelled "phono" you will need a phono preamp. You can do a quick search on Froggle for "phono preamp" and find units for as little as $40. On the other end, you can spend thousands for a phono preamp. The signal coming from a phono cartridge has much less gain than from a CD player, tape player, tuner, etc. and needs to be boosted. You also need to apply an RIAA equalization curve (Recording Industry Association of America) to the signal. When records are cut, low frequencies are deemphasized (which results in less excursion of the record grooves so that more music can fit on the disk) and high frequencies are boosted. By having the RIAA curve deemphasize the highs at playback, surface noise is reduced.
In addition to a turntable you will also need a cartridge. The cartridge is the transducer on the end of the tonearm that carries the "needle" or stylus. If you are buying a used table, the cartidge may or may not be included. If it is, check and see if a stylus replacement is available. You can change the whole cartidge if needed. Like phono preamps they go for anywhere from about $20 to thousands of dollars. They also come in multiple flavors: moving magnet (common) and moving coil (high end). Moving coil cartridges may be low gain or high gain. If you have a low gain MC cartridge you will need a preamp that boosts the signal more. The odds are a first turnatable will have a MM cartridge.
I have attached turntables to receivers using long RCA interconnects without any problem. You can also put the phono preamp in an intermediate position between the TT and the receiver. I have used long shielded RCA "patch cords" designed to hook up auto amplifiers for this purpose with good results.

Note to self: Bookmark this post so that every time you have that stupid idea of getting into vinyl, you come here and get confused as hell and stay away

pblanc

I agree entirely. Saddly, its too late for me.

billbillw

If you are just dabbling (or even if you are serious), I would recommend going used for a turntable. Scour Craigslist or local Ebay listings. As a starter table, you might keep your eye open for a used Technics SL-1200/1210mk2 (or newer Mk*) and put a Shure M97xE on it. DJs are selling these all the time for around $300 or less. They are bulletproof, have cheap parts availability, and they hold their value very well, so you won't really loose anything if you decide vinyl is not for you.

If you decide you are serious, wait until you can spend $1000+ for a good high end table (VPI/Oracle/Sota, used of course).

wingnut4772

Thanks guys. A lot of good ideas. The research has officially begun.:p

shack

billbillw wrote:

If you are just dabbling (or even if you are serious), I would recommend going used for a turntable. Scour Craigslist or local Ebay listings. As a starter table, you might keep your eye open for a used Technics SL-1200/1210mk2 (or newer Mk*) and put a Shure M97xE on it. DJs are selling these all the time for around $300 or less. They are bulletproof, have cheap parts availability, and they hold their value very well, so you won't really loose anything if you decide vinyl is not for you.

If you decide you are serious, wait until you can spend $1000+ for a good high end table (VPI/Oracle/Sota, used of course).

This is a good idea if you can get one locally. I would never buy a used TT sight-unseen unless you really know what you are doing or purchase from someone your really trust (like here on the forum).

billbillw

shack wrote:

This is a good idea if you can get one locally. I would never buy a used TT sight-unseen unless you really know what you are doing or purchase from someone your really trust (like here on the forum).

Agreed. You may also be safe buying a TT from Audiogon if the seller has good feedback and they have orignal packing materials. I would avoid Ebay TT sellers unless local p/u is possible. Rare cases where the seller has obvoiusly sold many high end audio pieces may be ok too, but if you can't see recent feedback with similar types of gear, stay away.

TroyD

Me personally? I would skip the used table thing unless you can pick it up and demo it.

The older direct drives are, IMHO (keep that in mind), not worth the hassle and after you put a decent cartridge on them, hell, the Project or entry level Music Hall end up being as, if not more, economical and probably better sounding.

Also, don't forget if you get into vinyl, a record cleaning machine isn't optional.

BDT

billbillw

Before you dis the Technics, you might want to read this review:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/technics_sl1200_2_e.html

This reviewer has also had direct experience with the MMF9 and the MMF2.

In the end, he believes the Technics (with or without a KAB dampener mod) is far superior to either of the Music Hall offerings.
In the end, reviews are somewhat subjective and personal, but think about this, Technics has sold more than 3 million SL-1200 series tables over the last 30 years. Due to that large sales volume, the scale of economics allows you to purchase vastly more engineering/research, and better quality parts for your money.

reeltrouble1

Darla,

That table has won a few awards, the box project makes to help run it is also well reviewed.

Have fun.

RT1

cfrizz

ROFLMAO!!!:D AMEN, talk about taking something so simple & making it so long, convoluted & confusing, that I gave myself a headache reading it!:eek:

HTrookie wrote:

Note to self: Bookmark this post so that every time you have that stupid idea of getting into vinyl, you come here and get confused as hell and stay away

TroyD

billbillw wrote:

Before you dis the Technics, you might want to read this review:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/technics_sl1200_2_e.html

This reviewer has also had direct experience with the MMF9 and the MMF2.

In the end, he believes the Technics (with or without a KAB dampener mod) is far superior to either of the Music Hall offerings.
In the end, reviews are somewhat subjective and personal, but think about this, Technics has sold more than 3 million SL-1200 series tables over the last 30 years. Due to that large sales volume, the scale of economics allows you to purchase vastly more engineering/research, and better quality parts for your money.

I'm not dissing the Technics per se. Again, I'm stating my OPINION. I've heard the SL1200, personally, I don't think it's a terribly musical table....but, again, that's my opinion.

Also, the SL-1200...they are generally not cheap either and when you factor in that a new cartridge is in order (anything a DJ uses, color me uninterested).

Anyhow, back on track, IF Darla is serious about getting into vinyl and judging from her past episodes, I think that if she decides on getting into vinyl, if she starts at the entry level she won't be there long....so why even start there.

If I were her (and this need not be complicated ).....I'd look at entering the vinyl world a little farther up the food chain. A Music Hall MMF-5....or even, gulp, the VPI Scout. Both are excellent tables in thier respective price points....a decent phono stage and a LP cleaner. Viola.

BDT

billbillw

TroyD wrote:

If I were her (and this need not be complicated ).....I'd look at entering the vinyl world a little farther up the food chain. A Music Hall MMF-5....or even, gulp, the VPI Scout. Both are excellent tables in thier respective price points....a decent phono stage and a LP cleaner. Viola.

BDT

Just sell her your VPI, your about ready to move up to a TNT aren't you?

BlueMDPicker

TroyD wrote:

Anyhow, back on track, IF Darla is serious about getting into vinyl and judging from her past episodes, I think that if she decides on getting into vinyl, if she starts at the entry level she won't be there long....so why even start there.

Precisely. You're in a large audio market in S. Florida. Watch Audiogon for a local VPI Scout, or similar, used. My Bluenote TT came from your area and has been stellar. You'll be happier quicker and stay that way longer, with better resale options if vinyl isn't for you. Good luck!

TroyD

billbillw wrote:

Just sell her your VPI, your about ready to move up to a TNT aren't you?

heh heh....no.

I just aquired the stand alone motor assembly for mine, so, for awhile, I'm happy.

Besides, I'd NEVER ship this thing. It would be pickup only.

BDT

reeltrouble1

TroyD wrote:

Besides, I'd NEVER ship this thing. It would be pickup only.

BDT

So you are not really happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RT1

TroyD

Ted,

Are we ever REALLY happy? There is ALWAYS something else.



BDT

unc2701

TroyD wrote:

Ted,

Are we ever REALLY happy? There is ALWAYS something else.



BDT

Yeah, try telling that to your wife. I'm talking about stereo gear, of course.

TroyD

I just celebrated my 11th anniversary with TLW....this is one case where I couldn't upgrade.

Gear, man, there is ALWAYS more gear.

BDT

wingnut4772

Ok....maybe I am not quite ready. I don't want to have to upgrade that's for sure so I think I need to think on this some more.....

BlueMDPicker

Darla,

Hollywood Sound is always on Audiogon with TTs, record cleaners, etc. Might be worth a drive North a few miles. Here's a NICE TT they currently have listed: http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?anlgtabl&1172901434

wingnut4772

That's definitely more $$$ than I want to spend right now which is making me wonder if I should wait until I can. I want it to be on par with the rest of my set up.

hoosier21

your original plan was a good one wingnut get the 300 TT, you do have to add a phone preamp, but for 500 bucks you will have a great sounding set up, enjoy