Woodworking Question

tryrrthg

There are some woodworking gurus around here so I thought I'd throw this question out there...

My wife and I are thinking of starting a simple kitchen remodel. We would like to re-face our kitchen cabinets. Since I like to dabble in wood working I figured I could make new cabinet doors, drawer fronts, and new drawers. I was just wondering what type of wood/materials I should get to build the doors, drawers, etc.? We will be painting the cabinets so no need for super nice wood, I just don't have any idea what type of wood to buy for such a project.

We will most likely be going with a simple shaker style door, so I was assuming solid wood frame, plywood center? I'm just not sure what type of wood or plywood to buy. Or will an MDF center work ok too?

I asked this question at another forum and someone suggested using Poplar for the frame, good choice or not? I like the poplar suggestion because it's readily available, even at Home Depot.

The door will be something like the pic below.

amulford

Poplar is a good choice for the frames and fronts. It's got a denser structure than pine and it's easy to mill. It also doesn't warp as easily. For the panels, since you want to paint, I'd opt for a cabinet grade 1/4" or 3/8" ACX. For the drawer boxes, you can use plywood if you plan to screw a basic box together. Make sure it's cabinet grade also, as this will not have voids in it. If you plan on dovetailing or box joints, go with solid stock. You can use 1/2", but you won't find it at HD. You can use 3/4" pine.

You'll need a set of stile and rail bits for your router. If you don't have a router table, I'd get it too. If you don't have a jointer, get a straight router bit in it's place. Oversize the rips and joint them, it'll save you hours of sanding. Buy good carbide bits.

And get a good straight edge for your circular saw. It will help you to rough cut you panels, which you can finish on the table saw.

I like Shaker style. Clean, simple lines.

I'd stay away from MDF. Good for general utility stuff, but not for "show" work. Unless you plan to veneer...

tryrrthg

What is ACX? Never seen that before. Available at HD or lowes?

Style and rail bit? do you mean a tounge and groove bit?

As for the joiner or straigh router bit... Do you mean use a flush trim bit on the top and bottom to mill off a bit to make sure that the rail and stiles are perfectly flush with each other at the joints?

I got a router for Christmas, but haven't used it yet. I figured I could do most of the work with my table saw.

dkg999

You can get popular in stain or paint grade at a real lumber yard or wood supplier. As mentioned it would be a good choice. You could use a good plywood with paint or stain grade face veneer for the inside panels. You can do the job with a decent table saw, or add in a good router table which will help make things easier.

If you don't have a lot of experience, I would suggest finding a local woodworker who will help you and show you how the cut and assembly is done. Having the right clamps to keep everything squared up when assembling the doors is a critical step, and the clamps are expensive and may not be something you want to invest in. Good luck and have fun!

amulford

tryrrthg wrote:

What is ACX? Never seen that before. Available at HD or lowes?

Style and rail bit? do you mean a tounge and groove bit?

As for the joiner or straigh router bit... Do you mean use a flush trim bit on the top and bottom to mill off a bit to make sure that the rail and stiles are perfectly flush with each other at the joints?

I got a router for Christmas, but haven't used it yet. I figured I could do most of the work with my table saw.

ACX is a plywood grade. It's sanded on both sides and the faces don't have defects and repairs. You should be able to get it at HD or Lowes.

Stile and rail bits are specifically for making cabinet doors. It's a pair of bits that have exactly complementary profiles. One does most of the work on the edges, the other does the ends of the rails. Perfect fit, every time. you have to set them up, though, using some scrap. You can get away with a tongue and groove set for what your doing.

The straight bit is to clean up the saw cuts. Every time you rip a piece, the cut is going to be rough. Set up the bit to take off 1/32" or 1/16" to clean off the roughness and true the edges. You need to get a router table to use both kinds of bits properly. And make some finger boards.

You will be doing alot of work with your table saw. And Doug is right, you definetely need to have some decent clamps. It might not be a bad idea to get one of those books, too, to show you how to set up and use your tools to build cabinets.

Schwingding

amulford wrote:

Poplar is a good choice for the frames and fronts. It's got a denser structure than pine and it's easy to mill. It also doesn't warp as easily. For the panels, since you want to paint, I'd opt for a cabinet grade 1/4" or 3/8" ACX. For the drawer boxes, you can use plywood if you plan to screw a basic box together. Make sure it's cabinet grade also, as this will not have voids in it. If you plan on dovetailing or box joints, go with solid stock. You can use 1/2", but you won't find it at HD. You can use 3/4" pine.

You'll need a set of stile and rail bits for your router. If you don't have a router table, I'd get it too. If you don't have a jointer, get a straight router bit in it's place. Oversize the rips and joint them, it'll save you hours of sanding. Buy good carbide bits.

And get a good straight edge for your circular saw. It will help you to rough cut you panels, which you can finish on the table saw.

I like Shaker style. Clean, simple lines.

I'd stay away from MDF. Good for general utility stuff, but not for "show" work. Unless you plan to veneer...

This is all excellent advice. I'd add that a kitchen cabinet project is MUCH larger than it seems, you might wind up hating it before you're half done. Especially if you haven't built cabinet doors previously.

tryrrthg

amulford wrote:

ACX is a plywood grade. It's sanded on both sides and the faces don't have defects and repairs. You should be able to get it at HD or Lowes.

something like this? HD SKU #958719

amulford wrote:

Stile and rail bits are specifically for making cabinet doors. It's a pair of bits that have exactly complementary profiles. One does most of the work on the edges, the other does the ends of the rails. Perfect fit, every time. you have to set them up, though, using some scrap. You can get away with a tongue and groove set for what your doing.

I like your STYLE, in my head I meant STILE. I looked those bits up. I doubt we would want that profile on the door. but now I know what you mean. I think the book I got from the library had a different name for them.

amulford wrote:

The straight bit is to clean up the saw cuts. Every time you rip a piece, the cut is going to be rough. Set up the bit to take off 1/32" or 1/16" to clean off the roughness and true the edges. You need to get a router table to use both kinds of bits properly. And make some finger boards.

I follow you now. good tip.

amulford wrote:

You will be doing alot of work with your table saw. And Doug is right, you definetely need to have some decent clamps. It might not be a bad idea to get one of those books, too, to show you how to set up and use your tools to build cabinets.

I have six 36" bar clamps. Wish I had some more and better one's but we'll see how they do the job...

Schwingding wrote:

This is all excellent advice. I'd add that a kitchen cabinet project is MUCH larger than it seems, you might wind up hating it before you're half done. Especially if you haven't built cabinet doors previously.

We only have 9 doors and 4 drawers so I don't think it will be all bad. I could screw this up royally and still enjoy every minute of it.

Thanks for the help, everyone. I'm sure I'll have more questions.

amulford

Link didn't work. I mean THIS

tryrrthg

amulford wrote:

Link didn't work. I mean THIS

your link doesn't work either. Home Depot's links never seem to work. What is the SKU or item #?

amulford

428474, but that may be a local store #.

Try to browse your local store. The pathway looks like this:

Home > Shop > Browse Store > Lumber > Plywood / Sheathing / Subfloor > Sanded > 15/32 In. or 1/2 In. x 4 Ft. x 8 Ft. 4 Ply ACX Plywood - Sanded

dkg999

I would invest in a couple of those plastic 90 degree angles that help you glue up a square corner. I think they are like $15 each at a Rockler Hardware or other good woodworking supply store. They will help you get the door squared up faster and easier when it comes time for glue-up.

The only really tricky cuts on these doors are the end stub tenons on the short horizontal frame pieces.

unc2701

I'm going to throw this out there having botched a bunch of joinery in my past- it'd probably be a lot easier to use a pocket hole jig and plugs. He's going to paint the doors, so no one is ever going to see the holes. You'll need the router table to do it this way (the tablesaw will leave exposed notches on the tops & bottoms of the doors), but you'll have no trouble getting it right the first time.

In any case, those 90 degree clamps are VERY much worth the money.

tryrrthg

amulford wrote:

428474, but that may be a local store #.

Try to browse your local store. The pathway looks like this:

Home > Shop > Browse Store > Lumber > Plywood / Sheathing / Subfloor > Sanded > 15/32 In. or 1/2 In. x 4 Ft. x 8 Ft. 4 Ply ACX Plywood - Sanded

Thanks, but all my store has close to that is: Millstead
15/32 In. or 1/2 In. x 4 Ft. x 8 Ft. BC Sanded Pine Plywood
Model 166030.

I guess I'll have to go to the store and look or check lowes web site. Thanks for the help!

dkg999 wrote:

I would invest in a couple of those plastic 90 degree angles that help you glue up a square corner. I think they are like $15 each at a Rockler Hardware or other good woodworking supply store. They will help you get the door squared up faster and easier when it comes time for glue-up.

The only really tricky cuts on these doors are the end stub tenons on the short horizontal frame pieces.

90 degree clamps! BRILLIANT! (Now I need a Guinness ) I've been meaning to get some of those anyway. Now I really have an excuse.

Pablo

I would also sugest poplar for the doors and drawers. Home Depot carries a pretty wide selection. HD also carries poplar plywood (but not sure how thin it gets). Make sure you use a good solid joint for all the corners (you should be able to find a router bit that will handle both ends of the joint). And don't glue in the center panel. That should float in a groove on the rails.

Also, if you do get HD (or Lowes) solid wood, let it sit in the house for awhile before you use (just to aclimate it to you environment).

Good luck. Enjoy.

tryrrthg

A little update.

I made a mock up on Saturday using some scrap wood. It went ok considering I did it all on my table saw using only a regular blade. Cutting the grooves went fine but cutting the tongue didn't go all that well. it went together ok though, and would pass inspection for use on the cabinets, but I'd like some better fitting joints.

On Sunday I went to Lowes to get a peice of poplar. Boy, is it going to be hard getting wood for this project at Lowes or HD. I could only find one 8' board out of the bunch that was straight. I took it home and built a door frame the same way I did with the scrap. It also came out ok, but could be better. I think I'm going to have to shell out the cash for a tongue and groove bit for my router or a dado blade for the table saw if I really want them to go together better.

I also couldn't find any suitable plywood at lowes for the center panel. I'll try HD sometime this week. I'll probably have to hit up the lumber yard to get better supplies...

accasbel

locally we have lowes & hd. ok selection of wood, but the 84 lumber has much better. there is also a woodworkers supply.

moral of the post? look for alternative wood supplies. going to lowes or hd for good wood is like going to harbor freight for a good electric drill.

amulford

If you want to rout for plywood, remember to get bits for plywood. They'll be 1/32" under the nominal thickness, i.e. 15/32" for 1/2" plywood.

Pablo

HD wood definetly bites, but it's a bunch cheaper than a lumber yard (a 2x4x3/4 piece of birch ply was more than double at my local yard [the only one around me]).

For the grove part of the door frame, you can build yourself a jig for the table saw. It will take awhile, but it should make the whole process go better.

But the best is probably a nice joining router bit. Try RouterBitWorld (www.routerbitworld.com). The had exactly what I was looking for and shipping was reasonable.

Good luck.

beardog03

ant...I`m impressed wit yor knowledge here man...!!

amulford

It used to be my living, now it's just an occasional hobby. I had a great teacher...