Surround Sound - Input 7.1 users - Speakup!

scottvamp

Why in the hell do people on this forum keep suggesting that 7 channel is useless?
Especially never having the setup themselves.............
I went from 5 to 6 to 7 about four years ago and never looked back. The rear channels never engaging is total ****. It works just like a 5 channel setup. Except now you have sound effects coming from the sides and behind you. Almost all 7 channel pres and recieves send a matrixed signal to the rear surround channels being used all the time. You basicly get 7 channel sound with ALL movies. Having DTS ES Discret 6 channel is a nice treat also.;)
Now you are enveloped in full "360" surround sound. For me 5 channel setups have something missing.
And its only going to get better with HD DVD units coming into the market.
5 channel HTiaB is great fo small rooms but for dedicated HomeTheaters 6 and 7 channel is a no brainer. Come on guys, this is not new technology. Lets stop giving false info., i know this was also brought up with 200w amps for beginner systems.

ben62670

Um no movies that I know of are 7 channel. 6 channel is including the sub, so it is really fronts center rears. If you have a long room sure enjoy. With proper speaker type, and placement 5 channel is excellent. There really aren't many DTS movies that are 5 channel out there. Most movies are Dolby digital which is 5.1 If you enjoy 7 channel thats wonderful. I had it, and went back to 5.
Enjoy
Ben

TheReaper

scottvamp wrote:

...The rear channels never engaging is total ****...

Actually, my older 6 channel receiver would only engage the rear speaker for 5.1 or 6.1 sources. My newer receiver with PLIIx, can run the rear speakers all the time.

I do agree, if you have 3 or more feet behind your seating, 7.1 speakers beats 5.1 speakers, giving more enveloping sound.

Holydoc

Ben,

You are wrong about the 6 channels. Some movies are produced in 6.1 on dvd. The ".1" part is the sub. The 6 part are the FL, FR, Center, SL, SR, and Back speakers. If you read Scott's post a bit more closely, he is not claiming that there are a lot of movies in 6.1. He is stating that with today's processors your receiver or preamp can take a 5.1 source and split it up to utilize your 7.1 system to give you an all encompassing sound.

Scott,

Most people either do not have the room for it or use an excuse like "most movies are 5.1 so 7.1 is not needed" to justify not spending the extra cash on either the receiver or the speakers. Luckily I have neither of those problems or concerns and (like you) enjoy the encompassing sound of a large HT system. Heck if I could pull it off, I would switch to 10.1 if possible. For me, HT is all about feeling like you are in the action.

scottvamp

Ben, not a single thing in your statements made any sense what so ever.

Reaper, of course i am talking about 5.1 movies as a source. And everthing else like music and tv, i use all channel stereo, personally .


Holydoc, i agree the bigger the room the more surrounds. And we all know it won't work with the "my couch is against the rear wall, my tv is 6 feet away" scenario. So i duck taped my rear speakers on the ends of my couch. :rolleyes:

ben62670

Hey there fellow Floridian. I was wondering what movies are in 6.1. I have been looking for good movies in DTS and only found that they are in limited supply never mind trying to find 6 or 7 channel DTS. I do fully understand what the processing does with the rears, but again for most people a good speaker with good imaging, and placement the encompassing sound is easily handled by 2 rears. Now if I had a home theater room where i lived that was nice and long where I could put the SB speakers behind me, and the SL and SR speakers slightly behind me I would do it for added depth. Again I would love to know of a few good movies in 6.1 or 7.1 so if you could point me in that direction that would be great.

Thanks
Ben... enjoy
"Ben, not a single thing in your statements made any sense what so ever."
Scotty what didn't make sense?

scottvamp

Ben, thanks for not getting upset. I get that alot here. You have much to learn my friend. There is only one non hd format that has a discret 6.1 channel output. That would be DTS ES. Do some googleing to find movies encoded.
DD EX would be a matrix rear channel effect. Just as most 6/7 recievers will do for most moves all the time.

scottvamp

Here's a short list and it tells you what moves are 6 channel discret.;)
If you have questions Ben just ask.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24862

ben62670

I did some goggling and came up with about 12 titles that are truly discreet 6.1 . The Sb's are slightly delayed SR and SL channels kinda like when you run 5 or 7 channel stereo. Not to complicated. I have SDA's for my front speakers, and I have an SA-CD player. Personally I thinks most of the multi channel stuff sucks A$$. Its way too processed and unnatural for me. When I first got my 6.1 then my 7.1 one it was pretty neat to show off the discrete channels, but after a while I always go back to 2 channel. Its kinda like people arguing over whats the best color. We all have our favorite color, so does that make anyone wrong?

2 channel and loving it

You enjoy your HT rig while I have mine set to 2 channel
Ben

ben62670

Thanks for the link. I counted 62 titles. (used the find feature) I wish block buster would have a list to locate titles like that. When ever I go there and ask for DTS they tell me to check out Pixar movies. Not much help. I will probably join netflix again, and use your link as a reference.
Thanks again
Ben

scottvamp

Ben, you should spend more time a the 2 channel forum, where i rarley visit.:D
Discouraging anything more than two channels on home theater forums doesn't make much sense. I respect the 2 channel forum members.

2 channels for home theater is just dark ages. IMHO!!!!!!:cool:

I am currently helping a older friend set up a system and he is intrigued with mono music. So i have been looking into mono system arrangment. Like the rebirth of vintage Klipschorn. I can try on many shoes. http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/klipschorn.aspx

scottvamp

Why the interest in DTS (ES) dvd's if your main interest is two channel?????

ben62670

Hey, I am smiling over here. To me a thread posted "Surround Sound - Input 7.1 users - Speakup! " is going to draw 2 channel guys to your post. Don't get me wrong I love to watch Pink Floyd The Wall in 5.1, Pirates of the Caribbean in DTS, and many other movies. I have not tried to discourage any one from Ht or 20 channel stereo for that matter. Which I used to really like till I stared worrying about quality of components, and speakers rather than quantity of speakers. Me personally I would rather slam my balls in a car door over and over than listen to multichannel again!

I hope you to are still smiling.
Ben

ben62670

scottvamp wrote:

Why the interest in DTS (ES) dvd's if your main interest is two channel?????

You never check out 2 channel?

Minds are like womens legs. There are much better when they are open :-)

scottvamp

Of course, to each thier own. Its just a hobbie. I built and sold a high quality 2 channel rig about a year ago. I used with a modded cd player only and was blown away by the sound quality. It was a very satisfying setup. I will do it again for music, as soon as i snag a pair of 1.2's.
Take Care Ben,
ScottIE

scottvamp

On another note, i really enjoy movies at home on a 10.5 screen, 9 speakers, with about 2700 watts of power behind them.:eek:

ben62670

I here ya I'm running 3250 watts rms all adcom(GFA-585, GFA-555, GFA-7500, and GFA-5400, and when I have the SB's hooked up an do enjoy that very much also. Well I have to put the kids to bed. Goodnight
Ben

MikeC78

I originally bought a RTi 7 channel setup to begin with and came to my senses that my room wasn't large enough to support it. If I had the room for it, I'd definetly have a 7.1 setup! Someday I will have a dedicated room for HT.:rolleyes:

Like you said, I guitly admit using the classic "there isn't much 7.1 material" line to justify getting rid of my extra speakers.:o

For those of you with the proper room and placement of a 7.1, CONGRATULATIONS! I'm jealous.:o

Mike

VR3

2.1 all the way

Dennis Gardner

I don't recall too many "useless" comments about ES/EX setups, just that it takes a longer/dedicated room to get the most out of them. This most always included the issue of $$$ being spent on 5 great speakers being better than 6/7 poorer quality models, and the same was said of amplification.

Hence, a great 5.1 rig beats a poor 7.1 rig every time.

scottvamp

Dennis, your right on.

Sid, just what till you get a house and not confined to a small bedroom. My first house i had three seperate setups.;) Really.

wallstreet

I love 7.1, 6.1, whatever.1 you want to call it. Sure the backs aren't discrete but that doesn't prevent stuff flying from the front of the room crashing into the back wall. That just doesn't happen in 5.1.

ben62670

wallstreet wrote:

I love 7.1, 6.1, whatever.1 you want to call it. Sure the backs aren't discrete but that doesn't prevent stuff flying from the front of the room crashing into the back wall. That just doesn't happen in 5.1.

Try your fx-1000's as rear speakers. They look like they would be great rear speakers. Set your rig to 5.1, and then tell us "That just doesn't happen with 5.1". I bet you would be pleasantly surprised. All the info for the front to back transition is still there. I'm not saying your system doesn't work as you say, but to say "That just doesn't happen with 5.1" is ludicrous. It would be like saying that when you listen to The Cars "Moving in Stereo" his voice doesn't travel smoothley from the left to the right becuse you don't have a center speaker. Me personally I don't like have a speaker just to the left or the right unless I am in the center of the room. Seeing my listening area is only 12 feet wide someone is going to be too close to the sides speakers. Also in a lot of setups that I have seen the speakers that are used as "surrounds" are placed too high which is unatural, or to close to you which throws of the imaging.
PS can I borrow your fx-1000's I would love to try them out.

Enjoy
Ben

Ricardo

Interesting how this 2 channel vs. 5/6/7.1 discussion shows up so often.

It is so simple.

2 channel is meant for material recorded in 2 channels (AKA: Music); 2.1 would add a sub, and I've tried a few combinations and never liked it. I prefer a full range speaker (It very well could be the fact that blending a sub for music is not an easy task, and maybe I've not been able to do it well).

Multi channel is meant for material recorded in multi channel (AKA: movies, SACD....). This is the way these materials sound their best. if you choose 5,6 or 7 speakers it depends on your room, budget. IMO a godd 5.1 setting can sound better than a so-so 7.1 setting. I have 7.1 and depending on the material it might sound great, or just as good as in 5.1.

What I will never understand is why some people say that they like to listen to multi channel material with two speakers. It's like buying a high end SACD player, only SACD's, and use two speakers; you would be missing so much. Same with DD or DTS movies through two speakers

Schwingding

I suspect this has a lot to do with individual setups, and listening environments.

Me, for example - my surrounds are behind me, on a perimeter circle drawn around the listener as center point. This is because I mainly listen to multichannel audio. From that standpoint, putting additional speakers behind speakers that are already behind me doesn't add to my experience, and I rarely hear the rears engaged because I don't like PLIIX, nor any of those DSP programs, but prefer the audio tracks direct from the player, plus bass mgmt. Occasionally I hear a helicopter behind me or something, but my point is that I wouldn't miss them if they were removed, and 2 weeks later, would barely remember them.

scottvamp

We got off track,
I was just trying to clarify that thier is false info in saying that 6/7.1 speakers are only used on the few DTSES tracks. They are matrixed in the side surrounds and used all the same. You simply get a more 360 surround feild. My recievers are not set to DSP's or PLII. When you set your reciever up for the rear surrounds, its setup for sound.
When you go to the theater and they have 16.1, the other 11 speakers are working. Thier not useless.................

PolkWannabie

If it feels good ... do it ...

scottvamp

PolkWannabie wrote:

If it feels good ... do it ...

I don't know about feeling good, but looks good and sounds good.:p

Gaara

7.1 Question for all those reading, what formula do you use for separation of the rears? I have read some keep them 3 ft apart or less as per THX spec, some do equilateral triangle like the fronts, and some do 1.2 x distance to rear wall. Just wondering where everyone falls between these three.

Also, how much info does actually get sent to the rear surrounds using PLIIx? I am upgrading my surrounds and am not sure if it is worth it to upgrade the rears. I currently do not have a pre that can do PLIIx, and was planning on upgrading that in the next 6 months or so; perhaps once the new Dolby and DTS formats settle in.

Jared

strider

Gaara wrote:

7.1 Question for all those reading, what formula do you use for separation of the rears? I have read some keep them 3 ft apart or less as per THX spec, some do equilateral triangle like the fronts, and some do 1.2 x distance to rear wall. Just wondering where everyone falls between these three.

Also, how much info does actually get sent to the rear surrounds using PLIIx? I am upgrading my surrounds and am not sure if it is worth it to upgrade the rears. I currently do not have a pre that can do PLIIx, and was planning on upgrading that in the next 6 months or so; perhaps once the new Dolby and DTS formats settle in.

Jared

Good question. I'm in the planning stages of an entertainment/theater room and would love to try a 7.1 set up.

TheReaper

Gaara wrote:

7.1 Question for all those reading, what formula do you use for separation of the rears?

I have an in-wall air conditioner in the middle of the back wall under a window. So my formula is: 1 air conditioner width