Too much voltage into Carver C-2 preamp?

avguytx

So in my current office system that I use, I have a Carver C-2 preamp, an M1.0t amp, a JVC T/T and a JVC CD player (not the best, I know). The T/T seems ok for its output voltage to the preamp, but, the CD player seems to have too much voltage output in a way which, at first, seemed unlikely. But the more I listen to different music, the more it's apparent. Right now, I'm listening to a Diana Krall CD and there are just parts where it seems to clip the input stage. Plus, you don't have to take the volume control on the C-2 very far at all to get to a reasonable volume. In comparison with the turntable, it (the T/T) seems like it's operating with a more fluid range. Anyone ever have this come up with their Carver preamp or anyone else's for that matter? I'll be getting a new CD player before long, but it's bugging me! It just has this slight crackly sound once in awhile.

It reminds me of car audio where you have a deck with an 8 volt preamp output and the amps max input capability is only 4 volt. Does that make sense? It doesn't happen with EVERY CD all of the time but it just doesn't seem right. Maybe I need a variable output CD player of some sort.

disneyjoe7

The phono input has a different input sensitive for a TT. The phono input should be used for a phono only.

avguytx

Oh, I definitely am not running the CD thru the phono input. The CD is going thru tyhe Tape 1 input since there is no AUX input. The T/T goes thru The M/M Phono input since I am not using an external Phono preamp. The CD just gets loud really fast and doesn't seem like there is enough range on it. Even with the volume all the way down, you can hear it a little thru the speakers. That tells me it's getting too much input voltage. Oh well.

disneyjoe7

I would say it's the source then, heck even you realized it JVC CD player (not the best, I know)

heiney9

There is a huge difference in impedence and the general signal created by a phono cartridge and a regular line input. So comparing the two are like apples and oranges if you are comparing the output relative to each other.

That being said it still doesn't explain the issue of the sound being distorted or clipping. What other than the phono comparison leads you to believe it's the pre-amp?

The JVC is a very typical cdp so it should fall within the norm for line level output. My guess is the source (the JVC may have an issue) or a poor cable connection or it could be the input on the pre or the output signal to the amp is overloaded. Check the cableing between the pre and amp as well.

Try another line level input (not the phono) with the same cable and then try both the input you are using now and the new input with a new cable, see if that makes a difference.

H9

reeltrouble1

disneyjoe7 wrote:

I would say it's the source then, heck even you realized it JVC CD player (not the best, I know)

Quit being a Geek, JVC was one of the few companies who actually made an attempt to put out a better sounding cd. However, in your particular case their player's remote is a bit on the flimsy side!!!!!!!!!!:D :eek:

RT1

disneyjoe7

reeltrouble1 wrote:

However, in your particular case their player's remote is a bit on the flimsy side!!!!!!!!!!:D :eek:

RT1

I almost fell out of my chair with that one.

avguytx

reeltrouble1 wrote:

Quit being a Geek, JVC was one of the few companies who actually made an attempt to put out a better sounding cd. However, in your particular case their player's remote is a bit on the flimsy side!!!!!!!!!!:D :eek:

RT1

LMAO! It's not a great CD player but I picked it up cheap and I have no clue what it sold for at the time. Hell. I don't even HAVE a remote for it! It does sound surprisingly good, though. I have a Sony in the closet but I can't say that it's any better. After I get back from CES, I'm getting another one.

avguytx

heiney9 wrote:

Try another line level input (not the phono) with the same cable and then try both the input you are using now and the new input with a new cable, see if that makes a difference.

H9

Cables are all good. They are newer Monster Cables. I don't have a dedicated tuner yet. I'm going from an older Concept 2.5's pre-main outs to the input to the Carver's tuner input. But that's kind of an unfair comparison because I have control over the volume output from the receiver. But in comparison, the 1.0t's lights don't move the the 2nd level on headroom (the 20 mark) till about the one o'clock position which seems more normal. But on the CD player, it's around 10 o'clock or so. Here's another funny thing...if the CD is playing and you switch sources, you can still barely hear it on the other line inputs. Not loud by any means but the same level like I mentioned before when the volume is all the way down.

I may drag the Sony out of the closet and see what it does different. THe SOny's issue is that sometimes it won't play past track 5 (or so) and then other times it will. Gotta get that new CD soon. You would think I already had a good one since I am a manufacturers' rep for various home and car A/V companies! lol

Thanks for the comments, guys. Will update after I connect the Sony CD.

avguytx

Ok. Tied the Sony CD in on tape 2 and with using the "fixed" output on the preamp, it does the same thing. Was this preamp made before the day of CD's? lol Maybe it just doesn't like as much line voltage in. That did change withthe advent of CD versus analog (tape, tuner, T/T, etc). It would almost make sense. So since the Sony has "variable" output RCA's as well, I hooked them up and set the "gain" (if you will) at a level where I could hear no signal coming thru the speakers with the preamp volume set all the way down. I am going to work with this route right now and see what happens.

Any other Carver preamp owners out there with the C-1, C-2 or C-4000 that might be doing this? I may have to look into when the Carver preamps started having "CD" input. Interesting.

Oh, and for the sake of knowing...the JVC sounds better than the Sony...lol. The Sony is a little harsh in the midrange area. Good 'ol "old" technology!

Polkersince85

I've got a C-11, C-1, and a PL 3000 SeriesTwo, no issues that you are having.

avguytx

Hmmm....maybe I have possessed preamp! lol. Thanks for the replies!

TroyD

Clipping the preamp? Impossible.

Sources will have different output levels so if the output on the CD player is higher, you won't need to turn the volume knob up as much.

The crackling sound is more than likely dirty volume pots on the preamp. Deoxit.

BDT

avguytx

TroyD wrote:

Clipping the preamp? Impossible.

Sources will have different output levels so if the output on the CD player is higher, you won't need to turn the volume knob up as much.

The crackling sound is more than likely dirty volume pots on the preamp. Deoxit.

BDT

Nope, that's not it. I Deoxit every older piece of equipment I get. I'm well aware that sources have different output levels and it stands to reason that if you put too much voltage into something, there will be noise, etc. It's a proven fact. Being able to not turn up the volume as much is something I don't want. That would be like me selling a car and saying, "now be careful, you'll be at 150mph at only 1/4 throttle". Would you want that? If I take the same CD players (plus others I have) and put them on ANY other component I own (or that I rep), it doesn't have the same gain properties. They work like they should. It more looks like there is just something wrong with the preamp. The crackling noises are from the more dynamic parts of songs and that's when it occurs. Not from a scratchy pot. Clipping the preamp? Possible. If there's something wrong in the chain.

Thanks for everyone's input. Gotta do some work before CES starts tomorrow. I have a lot of appointments!

TroyD

Well f&ck me for offering an opinion.

IF something is BROKEN, I suppose anything is possible. N'est pas?

However, I've never heard of a CD player giving out a power surge of that magnitude, but, I'm not the expert now am I?

I'd suggest hooking up a known working CD player to the pre....if the problem persists, well, you have gone a long way in narrowing down the answer.

As far as gain properties go, I've never heard of a properly functioning CD player or any source having such a high output voltage that it would be incompatible to another component....maybe an esoteric, one off piece but common items? Doubt it seriously.

If you've already determined the issue, don't ask the f&cking question.


BDT

jcaut

Have you tried other CD's? Several of them? So many CD's these days are recorded (or mixed, mastered, whatever the correct term is) so hot that they clip. I've heard several.

I've got a C-1 and I've played with a C-2 and I can say that they both seem to have a lot of gain. The volume ramps up quickly. As mentioned above, you can't directly compare the phono inputs to the other line inputs.

I know in the manual for the C-1, Carver provides instructions for changing some resistors in order to lower the overall gain by 3, 6 or 9db (I think those are the correct amounts). I've made that modification to my C-1, to take it to the "-3db" level, and it helped, but I wish I had gone to -6db. There may be a similar modification that applies to the C-2, but I have no information on that.

Jason