NAD amp problem, solution found

danger boy
danger boy Posts: 15,722
edited March 2011 in Electronics
Just in the past two weeks my NAD 2600A amp's right channel started to cut out. WTF? now both channels are cutting out.. I looked online for repair service. and came upon this as a possible problem that is common with this model of older NAD amps. :

POWER AMPS:

2200, 2600, 2700 THX:
Basically the same unit, these share a common problem of intermittent audio. Especially noticed at low volume, "punches through" as volume is increased. Caused by burnt relay contacts. We upgrade the relays, replace the input caps and modify the power circuit to give a smoother sound with better bass dynamics.
Cost of this repair/upgrade is 145.00.


that's "EXACTLY" the problem my amp is now having. Ok, i can deal with that.. it's old.. had many hours good use logged on it. Just surprised this repair place http://www.angelfire.com/art2/stereorepair117/highend.htm
knew my exact problem.

Anyway... i have to get it fixed.. won't be cheap.. but I like what i read on how they repair and upgrade some of the innards.

What do you all think? Not about getting it fixed.. that's a no brainer. but about the repairs and upgrades they say they will do?
PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
Post edited by danger boy on

Comments

  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited December 2006
    Al,

    Sorry to hear that ole war horse is having a problem, I know, Hoosier had that amp, then I had it and now you, not sure who Russ got it from.

    Anyway, if you dont have a local shop you trust in give them a call, you could look for a new old one on the gon I see them from time to time from 3 to 4 hundred with the occasional bargain price, but who knows if they are ready to need repair as well.

    RT1
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited December 2006
    Ted,

    yeah.. it seems this problem is pretty common with this series of NAD amps.. oh, i'm not sad that this happend until now. Eventually most amps need some repairs. I feel the amp is worth repairing.. once fixed/upgraded it will be put back into service to run the SRS's.

    I like what that service center will do to repair and upgrade it. I also want them to replace the binding posts... to accept banana plugs.

    Yes I if I could find a local company to do the same exact repairs, i'd rather go that route. I live in a place that doesn't work that extensively on NAD gear. THey'd have to ship it to Seattle.... so if I want this done up right.. i'll feel better about shipping it to this company in NY.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 24,139
    edited December 2006
    Stop breaking stuff DB :p . First the Adcom and now the NAD. Whatever happend with the Adcom?

    As far as the NAD that sounds like a very common problem and most likely is the culprit. This is one reason I hate amp/pre's with muting relay's and delayed turn on's..........just one more thing to go wrong later in the life cycle.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited December 2006
    heiney9 wrote:
    Stop breaking stuff DB :p . First the Adcom and now the NAD. Whatever happend with the Adcom?

    Hee hee hee.. well.. it was bound to happen at some point.. :eek:

    the Adcom is holding strong.. still running the SRS's. I had to hook up the Marantz MA500's to do HT duty now.. they rock.. i like mono blocks. if one channel goes kaput.. just swap it out.. that way.. you don't have two or more channels down if you have a stereo or multi-channel amp. ;)

    My New Year resolution for 2007 is to stop breaking amps. :p
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,114
    edited December 2006
    Please let us know if you use the NYC repair place. The DC offset on my NAD 2400 went out of whack. I won't have time to fix it myself for months.
    I ended up buying a used trade in Rotel RB980 from a local dealer for now.
    Very clean, almost too warm sounding. I'm using an old Rotel pre I got from Russman with it, since it doesn't sound good with the NAD pre.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
  • rpdugan
    rpdugan Posts: 1
    edited October 2008
    Hey danger Boy? Did you ever use that NY NAD repair shop? I have the exact same problem, and I am thinking fo sending my 2600A Amp to them...

    Let me know...
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited October 2008
    rpdugan wrote: »
    Hey danger Boy? Did you ever use that NY NAD repair shop? I have the exact same problem, and I am thinking fo sending my 2600A Amp to them...

    Let me know...

    Welcome to Club Polk!
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited October 2008
    rpdugan wrote: »
    Hey danger Boy? Did you ever use that NY NAD repair shop? I have the exact same problem, and I am thinking fo sending my 2600A Amp to them...

    Let me know...

    Well, i should have posted a follow up.. but I took the NAD amp to a local repair shop and they said there were a few bad solder joints. that seems to have solved the problem.. no problems in two years now..
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited October 2008
    it can never be good when your joints have bad solder in them, joints with good solder sure but not bad solder.

    RT1
  • awe-d-o-file
    awe-d-o-file Posts: 146
    edited November 2008
    Cold solders repaired- no parts. Check yours if you can b4 you pay


    ET

    System: MF Trivista SACD > Placette passive> CJ passive horizontal bi-amp> MF 2500A(LF) MF2100(HF) > 1.2TL's

    Other: Speltz silver Eichmann IC's & speaker wire, Econotweaks Detail Magnifiers, PS Audio P-300(source), R. Gray 600, Al Sekala's AC R/C filters, R. Gray HT PC's, Oyaide R-1's,WPC-Z , M-1, Herbie's & DIY Isolation
    Room: Qty 7 - 4' tall 18" diam. bass traps, Qty 4 - 4' X 2' X 4" panels. All DIY - man my wife is tolerant!
  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,505
    edited May 2009
    I know this is a very old thread and that's precisely my point. I was researching the net for an NAD repair shop when one of my 20+ year old NAD amps started to intermittently go into "protection" mode while driving my SRS 2's.

    I found this old thread, linked to http://www.stereorepair.net, talked to the good folks there and sent my 2600A off to them.

    In less than a week and for a reasonable price, the unit was professionally upgraded and returned in fine working order with new caps, relays and power supply components.

    It sounds great now and will get even better as the caps age. I love that this forum is always full of the right advice.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited May 2009
    I had my 2200 done by them. Went there in person. Wayne's a good guy, did great work. In addition to doing the standard NAD overhaul package including new speaker relays (that's why the channels are dropping out, well known factory cold-solder issue with the relays on these), cap overhaul, and some power supply mods, I also had him pull the A/C cord, mount an IEC on the back, and rewire the internal A/C to the transformer with some nice 10ga. They do nice work, highly recommended.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • DollarDave
    DollarDave Posts: 2,589
    edited May 2009
    Cold solders repaired- no parts. Check yours if you can b4 you pay

    I have a dumb question - How does a person find the cold soldered connections?
  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited May 2009
    Let me just say that they don't just re-solder the existing relays, they replace the relays. There was a noticeable improvement in sound quality after Wayne got done with my amp - caps, power supply mods, etc. I have a buddy in town who has two 2200's, and he got one of them worked over along with mine. So he has one with Wayne's touch ups and one without, so we were able to easily compare before/after. Definitely noticeable. He's not charging $175 just to re-solder relays....
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited May 2009
    coolness.. i still have to have mine worked on.. seems more and more repair shops are doing this and other updates/upgrades to NAD amps.

    inspired, what did you notice in the sound quality now with the work done to your NAD amp?

    please write down a few thoughts about what difference you are noticing now over before the work was done.

    thanks.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited May 2009
    Not suprised that more shops are doing this. Those NAD's are great amps. I consider the late 1980's to be the Golden Age of Mid-Fi. Great Nad stuff, Harman Kardon, etc. I had an HK990vxi receiver from that era, cost about $1000 back then. It was gorgeous driving sda's. HK stuff has gone way down hill since then.

    I'm selling my NAD by the way. I have someone lined up with first dibs, but if that falls through I'll put up a for sale thread and a ping over here.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,505
    edited May 2009
    nspindel wrote: »
    Let me just say that they don't just re-solder the existing relays, they replace the relays. There was a noticeable improvement in sound quality after Wayne got done with my amp - caps, power supply mods, etc. I have a buddy in town who has two 2200's, and he got one of them worked over along with mine. So he has one with Wayne's touch ups and one without, so we were able to easily compare before/after. Definitely noticeable. He's not charging $175 just to re-solder relays....

    Correct! . . . and the caps are already noticeably sweeter after 50 hours of use. One other major improvement is that he uses higher amperage double-pole (versus single-pole) relays.

    Another MAJOR improvement is that NAD uses a a 2-stage power supply, lower current at lower volume and then a second stage kicks in for higher volumes. The argument was that this saved electricity when listening at lower volumes. They completely bypass the lower current stage and the improvement is clearly audible.

    My mint 7600 is headed out soon for a total rework of the tuner, preamp and amp stages.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
  • InterSection
    InterSection Posts: 1
    edited June 2009
    nspindel wrote: »
    Let me just say that they don't just re-solder the existing relays, they replace the relays. There was a noticeable improvement in sound quality after Wayne got done with my amp - caps, power supply mods, etc. I have a buddy in town who has two 2200's, and he got one of them worked over along with mine. So he has one with Wayne's touch ups and one without, so we were able to easily compare before/after. Definitely noticeable. He's not charging $175 just to re-solder relays....

    I always assumed that they just re-soldered the ones that were already in there, i didn't realise that they replaced them!! Has this always been the way or is it only the last few years that they've totally replaced them instead of repairing the ones in there??

    Sorry it might be a dumb questions but i'm quite new here and just looking to find out as much as possible about a lot of things!!
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited June 2009
    the parts are not that expensive.. so they replace them from what i have heard. makes sense.. why repair old parts? They'll only fail again in time.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,505
    edited June 2009
    I always assumed that they just re-soldered the ones that were already in there, i didn't realise that they replaced them!! Has this always been the way or is it only the last few years that they've totally replaced them instead of repairing the ones in there??

    Sorry it might be a dumb questions but i'm quite new here and just looking to find out as much as possible about a lot of things!!

    The relays have metal points of contact that open and close. They wear from physical contact, normal oxidation and actually oxidize even more from the current arcing when contact is made or broken. Capacitors dry out after about 20 years and drift away from their original value causing a noticeable degradation in sound quality.

    People buying vintage speakers/components on eBay, etc. get some great deals, but need to realize that some investment in upgrading the electronics will be needed. Fortunately, in most cases, modern components actually improve the sound quality beyond what it was when the component was brand new. That's certainly been the case with my NAD amps and Polk Crossovers.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
  • indyhawg
    indyhawg Posts: 1,553
    edited March 2011
    Has anyone recently used these guys recently? I have a noise in the left channel of my NAD 2600 amp. I am considering using these guys. But since this thread is 2 years old, I was just curious of anything has changed with them.
  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,505
    edited March 2011
    indyhawg wrote: »
    Has anyone recently used these guys recently? I have a noise in the left channel of my NAD 2600 amp. I am considering using these guys. But since this thread is 2 years old, I was just curious of anything has changed with them.

    I sent my cherry and still in perfect working condition 1987 NAD 7600 to Wayne just 5 months ago (October 2010) BEFORE it developed problems. I bought it brand new in '87 and used it extensively, but figured 23 years old was pushing the envelope.

    I use the 7600 every day and the recapping, relay replacement, power supply upgrades and IEC power cord reseptacle he added for me really improved things. My 16 year old son also uses the 2600A mentioned above that Wayne upgraded every day.

    In House Stereo Repair gets very high marks from me and there are few brands that do as good a job of driving SDA as NAD. Thier high-current design makes them a natural, but it is precisely this high current design through old relays that wears them out after 20+ years.

    The new parts they use are better than originals and will take you deep into the 2030's
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited March 2011
    FWIW, I live close enough to them that when I did my 2200, I went there and met him. I wouldn't hesitate recommending him.

    However, I've since moved up the totem pole and I use a Krell now. The amp he did for me sits unused. I also had him do some extra work beyond his standard upgrade package.

    I was very happy with what he did, and they sound quality of the amp after the upgrades was great.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
  • On3s&Z3r0s
    On3s&Z3r0s Posts: 1,011
    edited March 2011
    I have a 2100 with a scratchy left channel. I de-oxited the hell out of the thing and no improvement... the static is on both sets of left speaker outputs and doesn't matter whether the normal or lab inputs are used. Anyway, I opened 'er up to see what was going on inside and the soldering is pretty much a nightmare. I love the sound of all the NAD gear I've owned, but it seems like when they moved manufacturing from Japan to Taiwan the quality just hit the skids. It definitely got better again after the Taiwan era from what I've seen.

    Anyway, I'm sure for a low-ender like the 2100 the shipping makes sending it out for a refurb impractical, so unless I get brave enough to tackle it myself I think mine is destined for the junk heap. Is it just caps and relays that they normally replace, or do they go much beyond that? I don't think I'm ready to attempt a power supply replacement, and doubt that would be the cause of the static. I can see plenty of suspicious solder joints and a couple of caps that look like they either vented or got dropped in some shellac or something.

    Anyone know what brands of caps end up being used as replacements? Just some decent Nichihons?
  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,505
    edited March 2011
    On3s&Z3r0s wrote: »
    I have a 2100 with a scratchy left channel. I de-oxited the hell out of the thing and no improvement... the static is on both sets of left speaker outputs and doesn't matter whether the normal or lab inputs are used. Anyway, I opened 'er up to see what was going on inside and the soldering is pretty much a nightmare. I love the sound of all the NAD gear I've owned, but it seems like when they moved manufacturing from Japan to Taiwan the quality just hit the skids. It definitely got better again after the Taiwan era from what I've seen.

    Anyway, I'm sure for a low-ender like the 2100 the shipping makes sending it out for a refurb impractical, so unless I get brave enough to tackle it myself I think mine is destined for the junk heap. Is it just caps and relays that they normally replace, or do they go much beyond that? I don't think I'm ready to attempt a power supply replacement, and doubt that would be the cause of the static. I can see plenty of suspicious solder joints and a couple of caps that look like they either vented or got dropped in some shellac or something.

    Anyone know what brands of caps end up being used as replacements? Just some decent Nichihons?

    There's nothing wrong with the 2100 that would keep me from investing the dollars to upgrade it if I needed a good 50wpc amp (that performs like a 100wpc amp).

    You can give them a call and ask specifically what they do and how much it will cost.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
  • Hello All. This is many years later but my NAD is having this exact same problem. Unfortunately Wayne in Long Island is no longer around. Does anyone have any recommendations for the standard NAD overhaul in the NYC area? Thank you!
    LeeAnn
  • JCMcNeil
    JCMcNeil Posts: 1
    LeeAnn I don't know of a shop but I fixed my 2700 THX myself with these.relays:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00DK830II?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

    Good instructions/info at
    https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/nad-2200-help.265844/

    And
    https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/133345-nad-2600-speaker-output-relay-replacement-2.html

    ...this info could likely guide any competent electronics shop or DIYer.

    Chris
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