LSi15's To Martin Logan Vantage?

knownalien

Hey guys. As you know I am a big Polk fan, but since I bought my LSi15's from Tweeter, I have a year to exchange them for an upgrade. I was thinking of the Martin Logan Vantage speakers. Tell me what you think.

Here are some link:

Tweeter

Martin Logan

cstpeter

Knownalien,

I upgraded from the LSi9 to Martin Logan Aeon i, a discontinued model that is very similar to the Vantage. As much as I loved the LSi9, the ML's were a big upgrade, and I was very happy I made the step up. I imagine you would be too.

As you probably know, ML's are touchy to amplification, placement, and upstream components, so they'll take some TLC to sound their best.

Joey_V

Hey KA,

Chris (cstpeter) and I are 2/3 of the members of the self proclaimed Martin Logan Chicago Chapter (LOL!) and though Chris has since deviated, he will return to the ML-ways once he auditions my Summits. Anyway, you are probably talking to the biggest ML fan on these boards so I will tell you this:

I had the LSi9, then I was just about this || close to getting the LSi15 as someone had a local sale but I deferred the sale to my good audio friend (McLoki) and he picked it up instead of me and I saved for several months and got the ML Vantage.

ML Vantage all the way man... BUT you will need some good equipment to bring it up to anywhere it's potential. You will lack imaging and focus right off the bat without some good tubes in the preamp section and a good SS amp (or Tube amp) at the helm. I went with the best speakers I could afford, while my electronics lagged behind severely for quite some time. You dont have to get everything now.... but know that there are ways to go and the potental is all there with these ML stats.

Lastly, I cannot emphasize position position position! These stats need good and agressive toe-in from my experience, despite what the manual states. Without good positioning, the stats will sound too diffuse to my ears.

As far as the Vantage, you are getting one of the best speakers out there for $5K and they deserve the utmost of care in your room... so make sure to optimizt the positioning, the electronics, and make sure to play with the built in EQ on the back of the woofer box.

Lastly, go to martinloganowners.com.... that's our Martin Logan Club forum and you will find me and a whole slew of other ML fanatics there.

Good luck with your system!

Joey

knownalien

so it sounds like my setup aint enough? Wow. I was looking to upgrade something but not something that meant upgrading my Outlaw gear which took some time to save up for.

knownalien

I am not even sure Tweeter will accept these back without the boxes . . i threw those out long ago.

Joey_V

knownalien wrote:

so it sounds like my setup aint enough? Wow. I was looking to upgrade something but not something that meant upgrading my Outlaw gear which took some time to save up for.

Didnt even bother to read your gear sig...

Sorry...

No no... Outlaw is fine to run it... but like I said, you'll be rewarded by better and better electronics. The funniest thing is that these guys (ML ESLs) are truly revealing and I mean that in the truest sense. Too many times people say that about a particular speaker, but it's not true to an extent.

Take for instance my 2 speakers: AV123's Strata Mini and the ML Summit.

Both are good speakers, no doubt. However, I noticed that I am able to notice the Class A bias (of the Plinius) more readily through the Summits compared to on the Minis. Also, I've noticed that the tube-difference was a lot easier to appreciate through the Summits vs the Minis.

Outlaw will run the Vantage no doubt. But like Sean just said, the Vantage will scale past the Outlaws, if you're willing to let it.

But hey... look at me, my source is weak and I still havent been able to do much about it at the moment as money doesn't grow on trees, but I can tell you that I'm enjoying my ML Summits immensely.

Joey

Joey_V

knownalien wrote:

I am not even sure Tweeter will accept these back without the boxes . . i threw those out long ago.

That's the easy part... ask for a box from Polk.

That's a weak-sauce excuse, my friend.

Joey

cstpeter

I think your Outlaw separates will make the Vantages sound very nice. My Denon 3806 (pre) and Rotel RB-991 made my Aeon's very satisfying. However, better gear would really let them shine. These are $5K speakers we're talking about, and deserve upstream gear of similar quality.

McLoki

Joey_V wrote:

I had the LSi9, then I was just about this || close to getting the LSi15 as someone had a local sale but I deferred the sale to my good audio friend (McLoki) and he picked it up instead of me and I saved for several months and got the ML Vantage.

Thanks again Joey.... (still need your address to add you to my christmas card list.):D

Anyway - Were I you and did not have anyone else to help with the decision (like a wife saying "you want to bring speakers how large into my house...") I would go the ML route in a heart beat.

I love my LSi's, but would welcome the opportunity to live with a few other brands/types of speakers just to hear the differences between the brands and technologies. (for me, it would be maggies, but to each his own)

Get something a little different and live a little while you still can...

Michael

Monster Jam

I love all my gear so much that in the event I get evicted from my home, I still have all the orginal packaging it came with.

On a side note, I really wowwed the guys at Tweeter when I pulled up to take receipt of FOUR LSi15s and a LSiC in a Toyota Matrix.

"You're going to fit all this in their?"
"I'm gonna try!"

I got it all in! I love my Matrix!

knownalien

I've been thinking a lot abou this. I have been to ML's site and read a lot on the Vantage. Honestly, they don't tell me a whole lot about what I want to know. How many drivers does it have and what are they doing?

Then I noted that they go down to 34 and -3b and with the high end name it is, I realized that the Vantage are the "intros" to the much better "Summit." Tweeter doesn't sell the Summit. So my decision is to stick with the LSi15's which (and I am not kidding) dreamt of having for 1 1/2 years. And I have a total LSi system. HT is really unimportant to me. Music is. Most would say the Vantage will best the 15's in the end, but I know so much about the 15's do to their posted specs and really very little about the Vantage.

VR3

specs mean nothing - its all about sound...

McLoki

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote:

specs mean nothing - its all about sound...

Well, specs mean a little - but you are correct, its all about the sound. You owe it to yourself to at least take in some music and listen to the Vantage. I am not saying you will love or hate it - but it will offer something different than what you have now.

Only you can tell if the difference is worth it. Its not something you can read about or have someone else decide for you - You gotta listen and decide for yourself.

Michael

ohskigod

theres nothing wrong with wanting to upgrade speakers, its the natural instict in our little hobby. I have to say though, as I look at your equipment line up, that I feel that money should be invested on upgrading the electronics first. Now dont get me wrong, I have mad love for the Oulaw gear, I still run some of it in my theater, but if your tendencies lean far toward music (as you said, theater is uninportant) then you have to get a different amp and pre.

Luckily, you still have a speaker in the LSi series that is quite capable of rewarding you for an electronics upgrade. I went from Outlaw Momno's driving my 15's to a Hafler 500 (going from 300 watts to close to 500 into 4 ohms) I assure you, the Lsi15 let me know my money was well spent.

its just my .02 that if you have a speaker that will benefit significantly from upgraded amplification, then do so before getting close to 5000 speaks. If this comes off as blunt, then I apologize as that is not my intent.

also, if HT is not nearly as important as music, then you should probably just go all 2 channel. Sell off the theater stuff and you will have some more fundage to reinvest in quality 2 channel gear. I place close to even importance on my home theate rand 2 channel, hence the 2 rigs I have. I often think of what I can do if I sell one off and dump the cash into the other, but I like theater too much, and there is no way I'm dumping the 2 channel, so such is my lot. If theater is uninportant, dump the gear and rock 2 channel and build from there.

Joey_V

knownalien wrote:

I've been thinking a lot abou this. I have been to ML's site and read a lot on the Vantage. Honestly, they don't tell me a whole lot about what I want to know. How many drivers does it have and what are they doing?

Then I noted that they go down to 34 and -3b and with the high end name it is, I realized that the Vantage are the "intros" to the much better "Summit." Tweeter doesn't sell the Summit. So my decision is to stick with the LSi15's which (and I am not kidding) dreamt of having for 1 1/2 years. And I have a total LSi system. HT is really unimportant to me. Music is. Most would say the Vantage will best the 15's in the end, but I know so much about the 15's do to their posted specs and really very little about the Vantage.

1. How many drivers? 1x panel and 1x 8" long throw ICE powered woofer per speaker

2. 34hz bass extension with a 35hz eq knob on the back to compensate for room irregularities.

3. Vantage an intro? I dont think so... the Vantage are currently the 3rd top of the line... the Summits are the 2nd.... and the Statements are the top dog.

4. You owe yourself an audition. Remember, position position position is paramount for the Vantages.

knownalien

ohskigod wrote:

theres nothing wrong with wanting to upgrade speakers, its the natural instict in our little hobby. I have to say though, as I look at your equipment line up, that I feel that money should be invested on upgrading the electronics first. Now dont get me wrong, I have mad love for the Oulaw gear, I still run some of it in my theater, but if your tendencies lean far toward music (as you said, theater is uninportant) then you have to get a different amp and pre.

Luckily, you still have a speaker in the LSi series that is quite capable of rewarding you for an electronics upgrade. I went from Outlaw Momno's driving my 15's to a Hafler 500 (going from 300 watts to close to 500 into 4 ohms) I assure you, the Lsi15 let me know my money was well spent.

its just my .02 that if you have a speaker that will benefit significantly from upgraded amplification, then do so before getting close to 5000 speaks. If this comes off as blunt, then I apologize as that is not my intent.

also, if HT is not nearly as important as music, then you should probably just go all 2 channel. Sell off the theater stuff and you will have some more fundage to reinvest in quality 2 channel gear. I place close to even importance on my home theate rand 2 channel, hence the 2 rigs I have. I often think of what I can do if I sell one off and dump the cash into the other, but I like theater too much, and there is no way I'm dumping the 2 channel, so such is my lot. If theater is uninportant, dump the gear and rock 2 channel and build from there.

the only problem I have run into is whether or not to go tube or sit back and wait for the digital stuff to overtake solid state stuff. I figured of all my gear, my source was the weakest and actually the thing I want to upgrade most. Esp since the Oppo's can be had for so little. But I want to make sure, music is my primary focus . . the WIFE loves the movies. I am excited to see you say that you feel the 15's can still reveal even more. That's no something I really thought about.

Be interesting to know what Matt Polk runs his 15's with.

knownalien

Joey_V wrote:

1. How many drivers? 1x panel and 1x 8" long throw ICE powered woofer per speaker

2. 34hz bass extension with a 35hz eq knob on the back to compensate for room irregularities.

3. Vantage an intro? I dont think so... the Vantage are currently the 3rd top of the line... the Summits are the 2nd.... and the Statements are the top dog.

4. You owe yourself an audition. Remember, position position position is paramount for the Vantages.

thanks for the info. I guess I am having trouble getting over what appears to be 2 driver speaker. Perhaps you could explain it to me a little more. like the Xovers, for example.

thanks.

Joey_V

Single Votjko XO at 400-ish, I forgot the exact #.

Call me if you have questions.... pm me and I'll pm you my cell.

Joey

ohskigod

I think Digital has a loooooong way to go before it completly overtakes ss in the mainstream market, and even then, it will allways be around, just like tubes. I wouldnt let it deter ou from plunking some cash down on amplification. going used will stretch the amplification dollar too (and mitigate your worry of technology change)

halo

If I'm reading this right - you want a pair of main speakers that can pull double duty (HT for the wife & 2 channel for you).

Consider that the sweet spot with the ML is very narrow when compared to a conventional cone speaker. The difference is when you're in the sweet spot - you are there (as in real life or darn close to it). If your wife isn't into it as much it'll still sound very good outside of the sweet spot (since ML uses curved panels to widen the sweet spot / aid in dispertion of sound).

IMHO - Once you go with an electrostat you won't find it easy to go back to a conventional cone speaker. YMMV. As Joey found out / pointed out - the better your gear the more the stats will give you. I know there is always room for improvement - that's one of the things that make this hobby great. By upgrading (over time) you can really hear the differences compared to the gear you started with. Sometimes you make lateral moves but its all part of the process. If you won the lottery and bought the best gear out there you'd have an awesome rig but you'd miss out on what this hobby of ours has to offer. All the frustrations of experimentation, the thrill of the hunt for a piece of gear, the smile on your face when you make a change to the rig for the better. The end goal is to have a rig that you are happy with.

Looks like you have a lot to think about.

Some people believe you should get the speakers first and then build the rig around them. Others feel the source(s) are the most important part (garbage in = garbage out). Some prefer tube gear to Solid State. Digital is another consideration to add to that debate. It can be difficult to pull off an "all in one" (HT + 2 Channel) rig that does both jobs equally well but it certainly isn't impossible. Good luck

knownalien

maybe I should just wait and dream of years down the road of getting a pair of Dynaudios.

halo

I wasn't trying to dicourage you bro

Just take small steps. Pick what you want to start with and go from there

tonyb

If I'm reading this right - you want a pair of main speakers that can pull double duty (HT for the wife & 2 channel for you).
I ran into this same problem.And had to be easy to use for the wife.Couldn't be happier with my rig for both 2-channel and HT.Well,the Cary slp 05 shure would make a diff but hey,wife wants simple.

Joey_V

tonyb wrote:

If I'm reading this right - you want a pair of main speakers that can pull double duty (HT for the wife & 2 channel for you).
I ran into this same problem.And had to be easy to use for the wife.Couldn't be happier with my rig for both 2-channel and HT.Well,the Cary slp 05 shure would make a diff but hey,wife wants simple.

Speaking of which.... Tony, I still got to hear your system. Sometime this week or next....

Joey