My Discussion with VMPS Founder...

mldennison

Early B. wrote:

Why do some people think hi-fi is going downhill?

it sounds to me, from the quote below that what Brian Cheney was saying is that there is not going be as much advancement of the industry if everyone is out to make a profit as opposed to really trying to make a better product. if no one is innovating for the sake of innovating, and manufacturers are only re-inventing their old models at slightly different price points, how are things gonig to get better down the road? i agree that it makes right now a great time to get into audio, but if the "high-end" part of the industry loses the financial backing of the larger manufacturers, who is going to innovate and make what we are listening to 10 years from now any better than what we are hearing right now?

Early B. wrote:

-- when asked about where the high end industry is headed in the next few years, he basically said it's going right down the toilet. The industry has lost the concept of advancing the art for the sake of profit. He said the high end audio industry will end up where it was 40 years ago -- a cottage industry run by hobbyists.

hearingimpared

Early B. wrote:

As long as there is music, there will be a dedicated group of audio purists, enthusiasts, tweakers, tinkerers, vintage lovers, tube heads, and solid state fanatics.

This is absolutely so true. Plus the used audio market is the best. You can get great high end products in many cases for 1/2 of the original MSRP. It is a rarity that I would purchase an audio product new. The only product that I would definetely purchase new are phono cartridges everything else is open game.

hearingimpared

mldennison wrote:

it sounds to me, from the quote below that what Brian Cheney was saying is that there is not going be as much advancement of the industry if everyone is out to make a profit as opposed to really trying to make a better product. if no one is innovating for the sake of innovating, and manufacturers are only re-inventing their old models at slightly different price points, how are things gonig to get better down the road? i agree that it makes right now a great time to get into audio, but if the "high-end" part of the industry loses the financial backing of the larger manufacturers, who is going to innovate and make what we are listening to 10 years from now any better than what we are hearing right now?

Thus the, "a cottage industry run by hobbyists."

Early B.

I'm not sure what it means to innovate in audio.

The older guys will tell you that some of the vintage stuff, especially tube gear, sounded just as good, or better, 30 years ago than the gear being made today. And some fellas will argue that vitange Polks, AR, Klipsch, Dahlquist, etc. speakers sound as good as comparable speakers today.

I think the main innovations in audio have come from digital media, i.e. CDs. But, of course, the vinyl guys will tell you CDs are not as good as LPs. Go figure.

hearingimpared

Early B. wrote:

I think the main innovations in audio have come from digital media, i.e. CDs. But, of course, the vinyl guys will tell you CDs are not as good as LPs. Go figure.

IMHO the highest quality of CD is inferior in natural sound quality of a well recorded LP.

CDs have come a llllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg way and their sonics are aided by DACs and stabilizing mats and because of that I am very willing to buy CDs and listen for long periods especially of recordings that I can't get on vinyl.

Give me a CD and an LP of the same performance, the same recording and I'm listening to the LP first. The CD is just more convenient. Turntable/tonearm/cartridge combos have come a long way too but the ratio of improvement goes to the digital media improvement.

There is a twist to this however. If you have a mediocre turntable/tonearm/cartridge combo the LP will still sound more natural and silky but you will hear more surface noise, clicks, pops and airborne vibrations. Some people focus on those distractions rather than the music therefore CDs are the logical choice.

mldennison

you do have a point there, i cant think of alot of areas of audio where there is room for big innovation. but think about CD's, like you said. a hobbyist can come up with a new circuit design for a pre-amp and put a few together and start his/her own little business, but he/she is not going to come up with "hd-sacd" or whatever is going to come out next, that is going to take some serious finanical backing...

hearingimpared

mldennison wrote:

a hobbyist can come up with a new circuit design for a pre-amp and put a few together and start his/her own little business, but he/she is not going to come up with "hd-sacd" or whatever is going to come out next, that is going to take some serious finanical backing...

That is not entirely true, the hobbyist who has the technical ability and understanding can come up with a new and innovative design, the "serious finanical backing" is where getting past the prototypes comes in and that is where the hobbyists have to go elsewhere for the funding which if the "idea" doesn't seem to be the trend of the future, good luck in getting the funding.

mldennison

hearingimpared wrote:

IMHO the highest quality of CD is inferior in natural sound quality of a well recorded LP.

CDs have come a llllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg way and their sonics are aided by DACs and stabilizing mats and because of that I am very willing to buy CDs and listen for long periods especially of recordings that I can't get on vinyl.

but dont you think that given 10, 20, 30 more years that eventually the digital recordings will be about equal, if not better?

hearingimpared

mldennison wrote:

but dont you think that given 10, 20, 30 more years that eventually the digital recordings will be about equal, if not better?

Not if the current trend of analog reproductions continues. Analog reproduction will always beat out digital sound. To be honest with you, I'll probably be dead by then!!!LOL

shack

hearingimpared wrote:

Analog reproduction will always beat out digital sound.

This is simply not true. Some SACD discs are better than analog/vinyl pressings. And I don't want to hear that SACD is dead. It will continue to hang around as a niche product....just like vinyl.

hearingimpared

shack wrote:

This is simply not true. Some SACD discs are better than analog/vinyl pressings. And I don't want to hear that SACD is dead. It will continue to hang around as a niche product....just like vinyl.

I stand corrected! I've never heard an SACD so I yield to that logic. I have been looking into a combo SACD/XRCD/CD/DVD-A player.

I read in the new Absolute sound a rave review of a $149 OPPO combo. Do you have an opinion on that Shack?

shack

No. All my SACD CDPs are Sony. I have never owned a multiformat DVD/SACD player, opting for the dedicated stand alone CDP. I do however use a NAD DVD changer in my 2 channel rig. It outperforms a lot of the dedicated changers available today for redbook...but it doesn't do SACD.

hearingimpared

shack wrote:

No. All my SACD CDPs are Sony. I have never owned a multiformat DVD/SACD player, opting for the dedicated stand alone CDP. I do however use a NAD DVD changer in my 2 channel rig. It outperforms a lot of the dedicated changers available today for redbook...but it doesn't do SACD.

Thanks Shack. I am so conflicted over my digital front end. I have a Timber DAC. I really don't want to spend the dough on a full blown CDP because I won't use its internal DAC. I also want to buy an SACD but know nothing about them.

I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll start another on this topic when I am going to pull the trigger on the player.

Thanks again Shack.
Joe

SCompRacer

hearingimpared wrote:

Analog reproduction will always beat out digital sound.

I agree with shack. To up the ante, get your ears on a Modwright Sony 999/9100ES with some Bendix 6900 tubes. (Preferably with the tube rectified power supply). It would take quite a DAC to beat it.

schwarcw

SCompRacer wrote:

I agree with shack. To up the ante, get your ears on a Modwright Sony 999/9100ES with some Bendix 6900 tubes. (Preferably with the tube rectified power supply). It would take quite a DAC to beat it.

Hell yes! I listened to Rich's Modwright, I thought Allison Krauss was sitting on my lap singing to me!:D

hearingimpared

schwarcw wrote:

Hell yes! I listened to Rich's Modwright, I thought Allison Krauss was sitting on my lap singing to me!:D

Great stuff. . . hell I can't get my rack to work right what the hell is going to happen when I start putting the rig together? LOL:eek: