P-Thuggy sets new record!

PolkThug

Shake and bake!

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/04cf90a4-11d5-4b26-b488-9886000314ee.htm

Frank Z

11.99! SWEET!!

Wanna race my jeep? I get to pick the course.:D

exalted512

you still came in 2nd:p

congrats man
-Cody

PolkThug

exalted512 wrote:

you still came in 2nd:p
congrats man
-Cody

lol, those darn modified Z06's... That race was the happiest "loss" I've ever had.

exalted512

lol...id say so...you could probably 0-100-0 in a faster time than my truck will reach the 1/4 mile...lol

congrats again, being the fastest in the country in anything is no small accomplishment
-Cody

audiobliss

Wow, that's awesome! Congrats!!

ND13

You mean you ain't got that thing into the low 10s/hi 9s, yet?? Come on, man. Quit wasting your time in cable debates and get that car eatin Vettes for breakfast, brunch, lunch, afternoon tea, and first dinner and 2nd dinner, then the midnight snack.

jdhdiggs

Damn near perfect driving on that car, too bad you're now into the big $$$ mods and losing its street worthiness to go any faster... That still kicks ****!

PolkThug

jdhdiggs wrote:

Damn near perfect driving on that car, too bad you're now into the big $$$ mods and losing its street worthiness to go any faster... That still kicks ****!

Yep, I'm done for now. Next stop would be a smaller pulley for more boost, but if you go faster than 11.5, you must have a roll cage, and I'm not doing that to my car.

Time to put the Polks back in and relax.

Lowell_M

Dude, That was sweet.

I'm traditionally a GM guy. Hope to have a C5 ZO6 sometime soon, used to have a slightly modified Z28, but I've got to hand it to the latest Mustang. Hell of a Pony car. They are finally getting the motors right in those things.... the blower helps.... Nice driving too. Do you ever do road course time trialing or anything? The newest mustang is a little better around corners too isn't it?

killerb

makes me miss my grand national!!!!!!!!!!!

Toxis

Damn fast run man!!! Damn nice.

henee2

as a german new to american street race pls explain what 11.99 @119 means? 11.9 seconds for 119 ****?
what is 7.5 psi?
i wanna know if my audi s3 4-wheel can hold up to that . German built 2.0liter turbo engine doing 265hp with 5.7s for 0-100km/h (or 0-62.14mph) untuned seems alot more efficient than US pony cars with 5.4 liter engines sorry to say that.

PolkThug

henee2 wrote:

as a german new to american street race pls explain what 11.99 @119 means? 11.9 seconds for 119 ****?
what is 7.5 psi?
i wanna know if my audi s3 4-wheel can hold up to that . German built 2.0liter turbo engine doing 265hp with 5.7s for 0-100km/h (or 0-62.14mph) untuned seems alot more efficient than US pony cars with 5.4 liter engines sorry to say that.

Hello!

11.99 is how many seconds it took to reach 1/4 mile.
119 is the miles per hour at the 1/4 mile marker.
7.5 is pounds per square inch of boost (extra air pressure).

Adding more boost (air), lets you add more fuel. More fuel, in the proper proportion, equals more power.

My car has around 403hp at the wheels, which would be about 460hp at the crank.

Toxis

no, your S3 could not keep up. Sorry.

MacLeod

Congratulations P-Thuggy!

Thats definitely something to be proud of!

Jstas

henee2 wrote:

as a german new to american street race pls explain what 11.99 @119 means? 11.9 seconds for 119 ****?
what is 7.5 psi?
i wanna know if my audi s3 4-wheel can hold up to that . German built 2.0liter turbo engine doing 265hp with 5.7s for 0-100km/h (or 0-62.14mph) untuned seems alot more efficient than US pony cars with 5.4 liter engines sorry to say that.

His engine isn't 5.4L though.


Mine is but it's only stock. It's running 10 psi. For a reference, 1 bar = 14.504 psi. 1 psi ≡ 1 lbf/in². Do the metric conversions and you'll get an idea of how much pressure 1 psi is.

Anyhow, my 5.4L isn't as powerful. It is rated at 380 bhp and 450 ft. lbs. of torque. On a dyno, it put down to the ground 376 hp and 446 lb. ft. It seems to be under-rated by the manufacturer, quite a bit.

That engine in a 4670 pound vehicle ran 13.6 seconds at 108 MPH in a 1/4 mile and will reach 60 MPH in about 5 seconds flat. A 1/4 mile is 1320 feet which translates to 402.336 meters.

Sorry to say that you are grossly uninformed about US engine efficiency. I would also like to point out that the power per liter argument offers no basis nor any useable data in determining the performance of a vehicle. Power per liter is also a poor measurement of efficiency. If you want to determine the real level of efficiency, you should be calculating your volumetric efficiency. To do that, use the following equation:

V.E. = (actual CFM/theoretical CFM) * 100

where CFM stands for cubic feet per minute.

CFM is a non-SI unit used in the measurement of gasflow (usually airflow) past a stationary point in the time frame of one minute.

1 CFM equals approximately 0.47 liter per second (L/s).

To get an idea of how much CFM of air your engine is flowing through the throttle body, use this equation:

CFM = (rpm x displacement)/3456

Since you have a turbocharged engine, you will need to include the displacement of the turbo with the displacement of the engine. Those displacements need to be in cubic inches. For instance, if you have a 5.4L engine with a 2.0L supercharger attached to it, your engine's displacement in cubic inches would be 330ci and the supercharger would have a displacment of 122ci. Add those together to get 452ci. I think you will find that your 2.0L 4 cylinder isn't as efficient as you would think after adding in the extra displacment provided by the turbocharger.

Once you have that number, plug in your RPM when the engine is making it's peak power. Multiply those two numbers together and divide by 3456 and that number will be the amount of air your engine is theoretically flowing at that RPM. Since that RPM is your power peak, your engine will be operating very close if not at it's peak efficiency. Then you can take that CFM number and use it for the theoretical CFM in the VE equation. To get the actual CFM, you will need to do some measuring with flow testing equipment.

I don't have my reference with me here at work but I will check that math when I get home and edit the post if needed.


Chew on that for a bit and then, when you get the idea, come back and be as cocky as you want.



PolkThug...it's about time! Told you there was more in it!

Oh and BTW, 403 horses at the rear wheels with a supercharger will be making quite a bit more power than 460 horses at the crank. You also have the parasitic draw of running the supercharger. That changes with engine RPM because the faster the blower spins, the more pressure it is building and the more air it is compressing. The more air it has to compress to a higher pressure, the more power it takes. You are probably making closer to 500-525 bhp.

MacLeod

Im with John on this one!

Ill take a good old fashioned American 350 anyday!

henee2

@P-Thuggy: Thanks for your infos. Now I see how fast that really is! WOW. I love the new Mustang GT, and I was so close to import one (with Saleen supercharger) to Germany, since it seems to be a great deal based on value for power. And it looks awesome too. Only down side is fuel consumption, which would let me become me a beggar sooner or later with these high petrol prices in Germany Also, after adding our high import (10%) and sales taxes (16%), shipping costs (1k USD), and conversion costs for lights and so on (~1k USD), the deal doesn't look that great anymore. But if I was in the US, I would have bought it for sure. So I envy you for your car. Love ur black rims!

@Jastas: Thanks for the lesson Relax and start breathing again...
"I would also like to point out that the power per liter argument offers no basis nor any useable data in determining the performance of a vehicle"
Well I know... noticed my smiley? "i wanna know if my audi s3 4-wheel can hold up to that " I am not retarded enough (yet!) to believe that a 2l turbo charged engine could possibly hold up to P-Thuggy's muscle car, of course! I m probably about 4 seconds behind him on a 1/4 mile...

I don't know a lot about all the tech/engineering stuff. But the fact, that US engines are in most cases way bigger in volume than German engines, but do not deliver more hp (e.g. Mustang GT 2007 4.6L V6 @ 300hp vs BMW 335i 3.0L V6 @ 306hp), made me believe that German motor engineering is better/more efficient. Maybe I'm wrong!

Jstas

henee2 wrote:

I don't know a lot about all the tech/engineering stuff. But the fact, that US engines are in most cases way bigger in volume than German engines, but do not deliver more hp (e.g. Mustang GT 2007 4.6L V6 @ 300hp vs BMW 335i 3.0L V6 @ 306hp), made me believe that German motor engineering is better/more efficient. Maybe I'm wrong!

The fact that you are still attempting to make this argument is proof that you do believe your power per liter argument.

American engines tend to be bigger because the cars are bigger. They tend not to make as much horsepower as thier European and Japanese counter-parts because they are tuned to higher torque output in lower RPM ranges so that drivability of a larger car does not suffer. They also have to be made to do it reliably and cheaply. Horsepower is a poor assessment of the amount of work that an engine can do because it is a calculated value and not a measured value. Torque on the other hand is a very good measure.

Look at your "better German engineered" engines. You will see high horsepower numbers with peaks very high in the RPM range coming out of smaller engines. However, if you look at an American V8 with a larger displacement, horsepower numbers will not be far off, they will peak lower in the RPM range and they will have power curves that aren't as peaky. In addition, if you look at a European engine, torque curves are peaky and the peak at a high RPM range. Also, torque production will be lower than horsepower production. That's why most German and Italian cars with high performance engines need things like 6 and 7 gear transmissions so that they can use thier power bands better but Americans are still getting away with 4 speed automatics. An American engine will tend to have a low torque peak with a much wider and flatter power slope. Inaddition, the torque levels are usually quite higher than thier European and Japanese counterparts.

In simple terms, torque is a measure of how much work an engine can do. Horsepower is an extrapolation of how fast that engine can do that work over a distance in a given period of time. They are just measurements of a physical property of the engine. Power is not a measure of efficiency. If you actually looked into Volumetric Efficiency, you'd see that. You might even see the cold, hard fact that just because your German engine is smaller than my American engine and has a higher rated power level, it doesn't mean it is more efficient.

So having a larger engine gives you the ability to make similar power with greater torque output at a lower RPM level which not only reduces stress but increases durability. If you take that 3.0L V6 from the BMW and drop it in an F-150 4x4 and hook a utility trailer up to the hitch, it'll fall flat on it's face. Put that 4.6L in the BMW and it'll run just as fast as the 3.0L V6 and it likely gets similar gas mileage and probably increase the payload capability of the BMW. It is not uncommon to see an American small-block V8 from Ford, GM or Chrysler to run 250,000 miles.

Beyond all of that, there are different and much more stringent standards in America vs the rest of the world when it comes to emissions, fuel efficiency and crash standards. Those higher standards tend to cause manufacturers to need to reduce engine performance to reach fuel economy and emissions standards. Crash standards also require heavier crash equipment on the vehicles which reduce performance in the name of safety.

There are so many factors that go into this that claiming superiority of one vehicle over another just by power production alone is assinine. Barring any idiotic superiority complex that any European or Asian country, let alone Germany, has in concerns to America, it just doesn't mean that German or British or French or Italian or Japanese or Korean engineering or anything is better. It's not better than the other, None of them are, they just have different ways of doing things.

It's attitudes like yours and the constant need of the rest of the world to put down Americans and my country for one silly reason or another that just makes me want to say that we should just close our borders and cut ourselves, our knowledge, our skill and our money off from the rest of the world and see how well they think they can fare without the "stupid Americans".

audiobliss

killerb wrote:

makes me miss my grand national!!!!!!!!!!!

You had a Grand National and you got rid of it?!?!?!?! :eek::eek::eek:
One of my favorite cars right there, for sure.

jstas...thanks for the lessons...I think...

killerb

yeah, i had 2 1987 grand nationals. one with 34,000 miles that i went all out with the motor and trans bigger turbo, inj., convertor etc. i got rid of that one and got a 13,000 mile all stock beauty. i didnt have the heart to do anything to it. after that i got a 1987 turbo regal limited. that was a real sleeper with a bench seat and landau roof. i went all out on that one and it was one of the best car i have ever owned. people would be so suprised when i went past them in this granny car. man i have got to get another one. i lost interest in them when my mom past.

audiobliss

Wow...you had 2...and a turbo Regal...and you got rid of them. I...can't...imagine...that.

Tell me more about them! What'd you do to them? What kind of power did they put down? What kind of times did they make? Pictures?

killerb

i think i have a picutre of the 13,000 mile one on my computer at home. ill post it if i still have it. on the modded one i had a 30 over girdled 3.8, msd 50 inj., pt-51 turbo, front mount intercooler, 3" downpipe and exhaust, 9" convertor, translator plus etc....... i could be here all day. it looked all stock and ran very well. i never took it to the track though. ill post any pics tonight.

killerb

this is a picture of the 13,000 mile gn, my girlfriend didnt look too happy when i was buying it but she sure loved driving it!:D

killerb

well that didnt work. let me try that again.

killerb

here it is.

audiobliss

Oh wow...that looks spotless.

No pictures of the other one launching, pointing at the sky??

killerb

no, i dont have anymore pics of the other cars in digital form. my brother has some more pics of the cars, but i have to get them scanned. i do miss that car, it was like driving a brand new car.

henee2

@Jstas: Well, I lived in the US for 4 years... and I loved/love it.
I got your point with the engines. Thnx for clarifying that, I just didn't know. So I got rid of one more prejudice. But I still have the prejudice that German engineering in general is "better", just like the US is "better" in IT, Service, Marketing, and many more things... including war
If you feel offended by any slight criticism then you shouldn't wonder to receive more constantly.
Statements like "they should see how far they get without us" provokes reactions. Well the US controls a lot of things in the world, so "rest of the world" wouldn't get very far without u guys. But don't you think, although it is true, stating that provokes even more criticism against the US?
Please don't close the borders for this statement, because then Germany could close it every second day... Cus aren't we ALL **** ...

Oh and one more thing I would like to discuss with you. You mentioned safety standards of cars, durability of engines, emission standards, and fuel efficiency:

1. If you claim was true, then why are German cars so popular around the world? If they were of worse fuel efficiency, worse emission standards, worse safety standards, and all of that for a much higher price, then why would anyone buy a German car??? Please don't tell me because of marketing or the brand...
If Germany is allowed to be proud of something, then it should be its cars (and its beer). So please leave us a small thing we can feel superior to the US, the rest is yours!

2. I heard exactly the opposite.
Our government justifies not to put speed limits on our "autobahn" because this assures higher quality and safety standards for German cars; thus ensures global competitiveness of our car industry based on quality and not on price. Moreover, the EU has a ridiculously large regulatory environment when it comes to cars. E.g. each single German car has to undergo a safety check by official authorities every 2 years (called TUV). This is why every single change to your car, if it is rims, exhaust, any other tuning, steering wheel, suspension and so on... has to be a TUV approved product or has to be individually TUV approved afterwards. Furthermore, when was the last time a US engine won the "world engine of the year award" or the "safest car in the world" award, not that this could mean anything?
Besides that, I believe emission standards in "Kyoto protocol" signing countries like Germany and Japan are higher than in the US. E.g. in Germany, a car-"emission"-check has to be done for each single car every 2-3 years. I know in some states like California or NY you have higher commission standards than in other states. But don't claim your standards are in general higher than the rest of the world... The US standard is to be the largest single emitter of carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels on this planet. How many diesel cars are running in the US? In Europe it ll come close to 50% already, because of less pollution and better efficiency.

3. Fuel efficiency! At this point I ll become cocky again. To claim US cars have better fuel efficiency is just ridiculous. As long as fuel prices are about 3 times higher in the "rest of the world" there will not be any effort of the US to build just as nearly efficient cars as Europe or Japan does. Japan (Toyota) is putting a lot of money in hybrid technology, Germany (BMW and Mercedes) spend unreal amounts in H2-technology and other more efficient alternative energy resources. You said yourself that US engines tend to be of bigger volume, and physically bigger volumed engines need more fuel and are less efficient...
Just for example, we can compare the BMW 330i (272hp) and the Mustang GT (300hp). Both have about the same power (based on 0-60mph acceleration both at 6,1 secs) are of same size and weight (~3500lbs). On combined mpg the Mustang need 25% more fuel for the same distance... (8.8Liter for 100km BMW, 11.0 Liter for 100km Mustang GT). If you wanna compare it to BMW 335i (306hp, 5.7 sec 0-60, 9.5 Liter for 100km) then the Mustang GT still needs 16% more gas. So you might be right on some things, but not on this one... Pls don't tell me the comparison favors the German car only in this case. You can pick any other car...

Oh but this discussion is nonsense anyway, since for example Toyota manufactures most cars in the US and Ford on the contrary manufactures most cars in Japan... So who should we blame US or Japan or even Germany? HAHA

Again, this is no criticism against the US nor against you, these are just some opinions with some reasoning behind that, but as you are the expert you might open my eyes once again.

Greg Peters

henee2 wrote:

Please don't close the borders for this statement, because then Germany could close it every second day... Cus aren't we ALL **** ...

I'm 1/4 offended...because I'm 1/4 German :eek: .

Actually, I'm not offended- just kidding.

As for the German vs US automotive superiority argument, I'd say they are apples vs oranges, an unfair comparison.

German cars are often about finesse, engineering, handling prowess and build quality (excluding the Trabant ), while the US pony cars like the Mustang are more about brute performance, bang for the buck, and excess (like that's a bad thing).

Certain models of Mustang over the years can go fast and handle well. I remember well driving a drunk buddy home in his modified 5.0L 'Stang, trying to feather the clutch and brakes so as to keep that thing pointed straight in the snow and ice- not easy. Wet and icey pavement weren't the best venue for this car. That would be an example of a Mustang that was more of a "straight line" performer. I think the later model Mustangs are much improved, more error friendly fresh from the showroom (with some great peformance potential).

Attached is the upgraded engine in a guy from work's '05. Mmmmm - Supercharger.