1080i vs. 1080p

MillerLiteScott

I have a less than a year old 1080i Sony XBR1. I feel like I made a mistake buying it about 6 month earlier than 1080p became more available and affordable.

The new Sony XBR2 is 1080p and about $400.00 cheaper than what I paid this past January.

Don't get me wrong it is a nice TV but I think (and i could be wrong) that I made a big mistake and won't be able to enjoy HD in all it's glory when I eventually get a HD DVD player.

This has been bothering me and I don't dare say anything to my wife.

Any suggestions?

Dennis Gardner

Ain't upgradeitis a b*tch?:(

That great Sony XBR TV you have won't be the last piece of equipment you buy that is obsolete within the year. Format/resolution changes are the biggest way to move equipment off the showroom floors, since only a small portion of the public (geeks like us that care) know the difference between 720P,1080i,1080P, DTS-ES, DD-EX and the yet to be realeased HD audio versions of the digital formats.


Lighten up and enjoy..................prices will continue to fall to make it way more reasonable to upgrade in the near future.

bobman1235

Dennis is right, things are always going to get better and more affordable, but you can't sit around waiting for the best thing because something better is ALWAYS on the horizon. Enjoy what you got. I doubt you'll be disappointed.

Holydoc

Plus it is very hard to tell 1080p from 1080i. The way I understand it is that you would have to sit right on your TV that must have larger than a 50" screen to tell the difference. Of course if we are as anal about our TV's as we are about our stereo's, then both you and I have made a mistake with our 1080i's.

MillerLiteScott

Yes it is a very nice TV, and you are right probably no one but me will know any different. I guess in a year or so it will make a great TV for the bedroom:D

I just wish we could get better programming PQ over Comcast Cable.

TheReaper

The Sony KDL-V40XBR1 is a 720p hdtv (actually 1366 x 768 pixels).

On the upside, for upscaling Standard Definition content, 720 is usually better than 1080. Also, I think FOX and ABC (in my area) broadcast in 720p.

Besides, think of people like me that have a 1080i crt, or worse yet a plain old TV.

danger boy

suck it up... and replace your Sony a year or two from now.. the quality will be even better by then.. and less expensive too.

I have a now 3 yr old 1080i tube TV.. and I can't see replacing it just to bump up to 1080p for the small increase in pq. call me a freak.. but i'm waiting a few more years till 2160p comes out. LOL :rolleyes:

Sami

MillerLiteScott wrote:

I have a less than a year old 1080i Sony XBR1.

1080i? I thought the XBR1 is LCOS (digital) so it's natively a progressive display, 1080i would not be possible.

MillerLiteScott

Model KDL-V40XBR1 Specs say Video 480i, 480p,720p, 1080i

I don't even know what LCOS is?

Sami

Ok, it's a 720p (actually 1,366x768), not 1080i. Definately there is a big improvement going with 1080p but for 40" sets I wouldn't worry about it, 720p is more than fine unless you watch it really close.

"A native resolution of 1,366x768 gives the Sony KDL-V40XBR1 enough pixels to deliver all the detail of 720p HDTV."

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_Bravia_KDL_V40XBR1/4505-6482_7-31470102.html

bobman1235

MillerLiteScott wrote:

Model KDL-V40XBR1 Specs say Video 480i, 480p,720p, 1080i

I don't even know what LCOS is?

Yeah, all that means is that it can understand all of thsoe formats. It will then convert to its native resolution - 720p, as Sami said.

TheReaper

Sami wrote:

1080i? I thought the XBR1 is LCOS (digital) so it's natively a progressive display, 1080i would not be possible.

You should have looked 2 posts up.

frreo1

Don't worry about it. Run the TV in 720P, and enjoy! Why 720P as opposed to 1080I? Click on this link to find out the answer.

http://www.bluesky-web.com/numbers-mean-little.htm

sickicw

I am pretty sure the Sony XBR1 is a 1080p display but only can take a 1080i input. That means that the display has about 2 million pixels compared to about 1 million for 1080i displayes, so your tv is pretty up-to-date as far as resolution is concerned. The only problem you are seeing is that it can't take a 1080p 60hz input. This is not a big deal, however because there is no 1080p 60hz content. All hd movies are using 1080p24hz. That same data is then converted to 1080i60hz and sent to your tv. Then the TV convertes the 1080i 60hz to 1080p(60 or 120hz) and displayes it with pretty much all of the original data. Unless you really know what to look for, you probably would never notice a difference. Once hdmi1.3 gets put into lots of tvs and they start using better processors, then that might be a reason to upgrade.

EDIT: I am assuming you are not seeing any of thoes "green blob" problems that so many owners of the XBR1 have seen? If not, i would keep it for a while.

univera

I just purchased the 40XBR2 and considered your set beforehand.

The review I read on CNET suggests that 1080p isn't really that big of a deal on these 40" sets as this size can't fully take advantage of the 1080p rez. I don't understand why and I'm not sure what size set one needs to fully realize the advantages of 1080p. So, I wouldn't worry about it. That is an awesome set and comes standard with that sweet black bezel. The new model comes in silver unless you decide to fork out $300.00 additional bucks for the black. I am curious whether the above comments are correct as I never saw any mention of 1080p in reference to your model.

sickicw

univera wrote:

The review I read on CNET suggests that 1080p isn't really that big of a deal on these 40" sets as this size can't fully take advantage of the 1080p rez. .... I am curious whether the above comments are correct as I never saw any mention of 1080p in reference to your model.

Take a look at sony's specs for the XBR1 on there web site. It clearly says it has 2 million pixels, which if you do the math is a 1080p display. As to not taking advantage of having twice as many pixels, it really depends on how close you sit to your tv and how good your vision is. I just bought a 46" 1080p tv, and it is well worth it to me.

MillerLiteScott

I sit about 8 feet from the set. As for the green globs? I have not seen any. So you don't think that I will be able to notice a difference?

I feel better but I am still a little confused about what it can and can't do.

Actually I guess it really doesn't matter untill I get a HD DVD or comcast cable gets better quality sources.

Thanks everyone.

AndyGwis

Tell me about it. I thought I got the deal of the century when I got my Samsung HPR4252 priced at $3500 for $2000 last summer (long story, lot of luck involved to get that price).

Now, I could get a much better Plasma without the annoying DNIe (clayface city on some DVDs) for much less. . .

Also, the Westinghouse I got last year for a great deal using several coupons and reward zone points seems like only a decent deal if you look at today's products and prices.

But, what are you going to do. Get what you like and enjoy it without thinking back, if possible. You got a nice TV!

sickicw

MillerLiteScott wrote:

I feel better but I am still a little confused about what it can and can't do.

Here is what it can do:

Take a 1080i60hz or lower signal from a bluray, hd-dvd player, or comcast cable and convert it to 1080p 60hz with very little data loss.

If there is any data loss, it will show up in the form of motion artifacts because the processor does not do true per-pixel motion-adaptive deinterlacing. NOTE this type of processing is very very expensive.

Also note, that in my opinion, this type of artifact is nothing compared to the compression artifacts that show up in almost all HD source material.

http://www.hqv.com/technology/index1/deinterlacing.cfm?CFID=7268196&CFTOKEN=bcd7bbfb55d6e5c5-0B458565-7E90-E2A3-B6BC161C2BB8EF4E

Here is what it can't do:

It can’t accept a 1080p 60hz signal. Why would you want a 1080p 60 hz signal? Because this allows you to use a video processing outside of your tv (incase your tv didn’t do a good job of processing). Future blu-ray and hd-dvd player will be able to take a 1080p24 hz movie and convert it to 1080p60hz. Current blu ray players take the 1080p24 and convert it to 1080i 60hz and then converts it to 1080p60hz. Current hd-dvd players only convert from 1080p24 to 1080i60hz. Also having a tv that accepts 1080p60hz allows you to buy a dedicated video processor like a lumagen…

http://www.lumagen.com/

So the short answer is if you don’t know why you need a 1080p input, then the odds are you probably don’t need one. However is always better to have a display with 1080p native resolution like yours is. This will obviously give you better picture quality because of the high number of pixels and the fact that sony uses decent video scalers.

Most of the new 1080p displays also accept 1080p signals mainly because it is easy and cheap to do this and because of the fact that it is a good thing to market.

szhleppy

Unless you are buying vintage tube equipment or amps, there is always newer technology on the horizon to replace what you just bought. I just got the 60" XBR2 and can't help but think I either should have gotten the 70", a different technology, or waited a few months to see what is coming out. What I'm saying is that all of us in this hobby overthink everything...my new goal is to spend more time enjoying what I have. Wish me luck.

univera

Great breakdown in the thread 2 above. What is the difference, in layman's terms, between 1080p 24 hz. vs. 1080p 60hz? I am sure it is better picture quality, but why?

Would something like the Lumen processor be a huge improvement over a good quality processor built into the XBR?

Agreed as well about upgrading. I already wish I bought the 60 XBR2, or at least the 40". If I were a rich man...

Sami

univera wrote:

Great breakdown in the thread 2 above. What is the difference, in layman's terms, between 1080p 24 hz. vs. 1080p 60hz? I am sure it is better picture quality, but why?

Actually 1080p24 is preferred since it is the original film format the digital version was mastered from. 24Hz means per second so that's 24 frames per second. That means converting to 60Hz would mean 3:2 pulldown is going to happen. 3:2 takes those 24 frames and duplicates the first frame into 3 frames, the second frame into 2 frames and etc (if I am not mistaken).

24f/2 = 12f
12f * 3 = 36f
12f * 2 = 24f

36f + 24f = 60f

Shizelbs

I almost bought a TV a year ago, but for just that reason we waited until just a few weeks ago.

Don't worry about it. Its going to look great. There's hardly any 1080p content out there anyways.

univera

So this means a better picture because the 3:2 pulldown duplicates lines?

Sami

Shizelbs wrote:

Don't worry about it. Its going to look great. There's hardly any 1080p content out there anyways.

There's plenty. HD-DVD, BR, HD broadcast. All 1080i60 which is deinterlaced to 1080p.

Sami

univera wrote:

So this means a better picture because the 3:2 pulldown duplicates lines?

No, it just means the refresh rate is higher, 60fps compared to 24fps. The amount of information is the same and 24fps doesn't need any conversions so in theory it should be better but only minimally.

Shizelbs

Sami wrote:

There's plenty. HD-DVD, BR, HD broadcast. All 1080i60 which is deinterlaced to 1080p.

I guess I wasn't counting the content in 1080i to be converted, nor the few hundred titles available on HD DVD and BR, compared to what is available currently among regular DVDs.

Sami

Shizelbs wrote:

I guess I wasn't counting the content in 1080i to be converted, nor the few hundred titles available on HD DVD and BR, compared to what is available currently among regular DVDs.

Many of the primetime shows are now HD, plenty of HD movies on Starz HD, HBO HD etc. Discovery HD, Voom has a lot of interesting HD channels that look great. A lot of classic movies too that look great!!! All beat out DVD even with the compression although it's not nearly as good as HD-DVD. Too bad I don't get Verizon FIOS anymore, their HD content was miles better than DishHD.

I too thought there wasn't much HD content out there until I got HD display. Now all I watch is HD, I will even skip some of the hockey games because I can't stand SD broadcast anymore. I rarely watch SD DVD's because I always have either HD-DVD or recorded HD movie from Dish available, one that I haven't yet seen or something I want to see again in HD. I am even waiting on movies I think will be good because I want to see them in HD, and I know it won't take that long for them to come out.

61" 1080p DLP and 116" 720p LCD. When I had the LCD on my old house, running around 70" or so, it was quite a lot worse than the 1080p DLP. I know it's not a direct comparison but the difference was not subtle, it was huge. Now with the larger projected image of course it is even worse. I can't wait until it's time to get that 1080p projector but I unfortunately have to wait at least until the summer is over.

bert26

Now I am totally confused!

This is what I do know:

I have a 60" SXRD1 - no green blotches
The HD channels look better than my upconverted regular DVDs
Regular broadcast channels look just as bad on my 32" Sony CRT
I probably spent too much on the SXRD - that's the price to be paid for being an early adaptor
I try not to think too much on how much I spent :rolleyes:

Bottom line - there will ALWAYS be the next new thing, you just need to be satisfied with your purchase or you'll drive yourself nuts (not to mention the poor house).

YMMV

Chris

Shizelbs

Sami, I was talking only about 1080 P. I agree, there is plenty of HD content out there, but, unless I am mistaken, aside from BR, HDDVD, and the PS3, its all 1080i.

Sorry to threadjack.

Sami

Shizelbs wrote:

Sami, I was talking only about 1080 P. I agree, there is plenty of HD content out there, but, unless I am mistaken, aside from BR, HDDVD, and the PS3, its all 1080i.

But it's all 1080i60, which in turn deinterlaces back to 1080p24 quite nicely. Are we now talking about displays with 1080i60 inputs versus 1080p60 inputs, or 1080i displays versus 1080p displays? That's two different things and people are sometimes referring 1080p displays with 1080i inputs as 1080i displays which is not correct.

If you're talking about content that is shot in 1080p60, there is hardly any, and there will not be that much in the near future either.