Subwoofer Settings

DustinS

Upon cabling my RTi10s, CSi5, FXi5s, and MartinLogan Abyss sub all up, I used Denon's (AVR-4306) 'Auto Setup' option to configure all the settings. In order to "test things out" I played a CD which had a moderate amount of bass in it, and I could barely even feel the bass (with my hand touching the Abyss). (the level setting on the sub was set to '5', and the phase was set to '0')

It sounded like there was more bass coming out of the RTi10s than the sub.

The 'Auto Config' set the Fronts and Center to Large, but I changed them to Small. But nothing seemed to change. The only time I can begin to feel the bass is when the level setting is set to 9, but that just doesn't seem right.

Question for ya: The Abyss manual suggests that "the sub low pass filter should be 70% of speakers lowest frequency response". First off, which speaker are they refering to? And second, the lowest freq response of the RTi10s (if that's what they're refering to) is 20Hz. And the lowest the sub goes is 30Hz.

Next question... what does the Phase mean with regards to subs? (I can set the phase to 0, 90, and 180)

Sorry for the "beginner questions", but your help would be appreciated. And if anyone know's a good source of "subs 101", please send it along.

Thanks,
Dustin

VXR8

Hi Dustin,

How do you have the sub hooked up? Is it through the sub out from the Denon or through the front speakers? Polk have a good article on the website about Bass Management, under the "Education" tab and the various connections - I have found the sub out from my Yamaha RX-V4600 counteracts with the sub settings and have run the sub through my front speakers. What a difference!! I also have the RTi10s as fronts (hooked through a Polk PSW505) and through your Denon, you would need to set the front speakers as large. Anyway, check the article out and let me know how you go.

Regards - Gaz.

ninerbj

Also, Make sure you set your front speakers to small. The Denon tends to set them to Large after the auto set-up. That might help you get more bass out of your sub

DustinS

Thanks for the replies... I'll definitely take a look at the Bass Management article and go from there. I'll post a result to the settings changes in order to hopefully help others.

BTW- VXR8, the sub is hooked up coming straight off of the Denon 4306.

ahorvitz

Make sure the receiver is set to "Subwoofer = yes".

Set all other speakers to small, as this will pass lower frequencies to sub.

Set the crossover on your receiver to 80 Hz (try lower if you like- 60 Hz?).

What is phase? From an AVS forum Try the sub in phase first- 0. If you notice that the response is muddy or dead, try 90 or 180.

DustinS

One other thing I just noticed, the Denon's 'Auto Setup' feature set the crossover to the following settings:

Fronts: 40Hz
Center: 40Hz
Surround: 60 Hz
LFE: 80Hz

ahorvitz, when you say "set the crossover on your receiver to 80Hz, which speaker are you referring to?

As you might be able to tell, I'm just learning all this stuff, but it appears to me that my fronts and center might be set way to low when a sub is present. Can anyone confirm this?

Grimster74

THX standards, which doesn't mean a hill of beans to most of if not all of us, states you should set all speakers to small and crossed over at 80Hz. Thats seems to be what most of us are running and it seems to have great results.

Schwingding

Wait a second, if your fronts and surrounds have different crossovers than the LFE/sub as described, wouldn't you be getting double the output at the ranges in between the two?

If I understand this correctly, you're sending freqs below 80hz to the sub, but you're also sending freqs to the mains/center/surrounds down to 40 or 60hz, respectively. Double output between 40-80Hz, right?

adam2434

The 40 Hz crossover on the front speakers sounds like the reason the sub isn't doing much with a CD. There really isn't a whole lot of sub 40 Hz content in most music.

If you set all speakers to small and set all crossovers to 80 Hz, you should notice the sub playing more. That's probably where I would leave things set for movies.

For stereo music, you might want to experiment with 60 Hz crossover on the front speakers, or maybe running them full range (large) without the sub. Determine what sounds best to you.

Also, if you're using the receiver's RCA sub out, make sure you are using the unfiltered or LFE input on the sub, which disables the sub's internal low pass filter. If your sub doesn't have an unfiltered input, turn the sub's low pass filter/crossover all the way up to effectively disable it.

One last thing - you may want to try a manual calibration with a SPL meter. I found that my auto set-up was inaccurate vs. a SPL meter. You may also want to listen with and without any EQ settings that the auto set-up may have applied. My system sounded worse with the EQ enabled.

DustinS

Thanks for the advice Schwingding and adam2434... I've set the crossover on everything to 80Hz.. and its helped out tremendously.. and yes, I have one sub cable coming out of my Denon's "sub out port" to the LFE input on the sub.

Setting the crossover to all 80Hz helped quite a bit.

VXR8 pointed me to the article mentioned above which describes running the sub off of the main speakers, which I'll try out this weekend.

danger boy

i just bumped up my fronts to 120Hz, center to 100Hz and surrounds to 80Hz. sounds much richer now.. very happy with the sound now. Bass is better than before. where i had them all set to 80Hz

andergar

I have a PSW 10, so I'm trying to understand the sub setup. If I want more bass from the sub, I need to turn the Low Pass to around 100mhz? And what is this Phase Switch? What gives you more bass 0 or 180 degrees? Will I notice the difference? And one last question: I have the on/off switch to auto. So that means the sub will only play signals when the receiver sends it to the sub? Please help a noob. Thanks.

Steve
andergar@comcast.net

VXR8

Hi Steve,

No question is silly! Anyway, the low pass is good to be set at around 100 or below (THX settings recommend 80). All this does is any frequency below 100 for example will go to the sub and not your main speakers.

As for the phase switch, this comes down to personal taste and it is good if you can have a helper to flick this switch for you, while you are seated in your ideal seating position. I personally have the PSW505 and have it set to 180.

Setting your on / off / auto switch to auto will turn on the sub when a signal is received. It will also turn the sub into stand bye mode after 15 minutes of not receiving a signal. This is the best option.

Anyway, this site also has some excellent articles and advice. If you click the following link, it may also help:

http://www.polkaudio.com/education/article.php?id=19

Regards - Gaz

aaharvel

For your rti10's, i'd set the avr crossover to 40hz, csi5 and fxi5's to 60hz, and although i know it isn't a popular method, i also recommend enabling the sub's crossover as well- this one at 80hz. imo bypassing a sub's crossover, thus having it play full range sounds horrible. It muddies and localizes the sound, and voices sometimes creep in.

sbracer

DustinS,

Another 101 primer (literally) is:

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-Z77co2l2wqt/reviews/20031007/bass_management.html?print=1&page=all

Then 102
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-Ljy82luQgZy/reviews/20031021/home_bass.html?print=1&page=all

Grimster74,
Great room setup in your sig. link to pictures, BTW! I do have a question for you, and no disrespect intended. You said: "THX standards, which doesn't mean a hill of beans to most of if not all of us, states you should set all speakers to small and crossed over at 80Hz. That seems to be what most of us are running and it seems to have great results."

Your last sentence confirms you run exactly what THX recommends, that must give them some credibility though?

-Eric
Sony KV40XBR800, STR-DA3200ES, DVP-CX995V;
Polk RTi10, CSi3, RTi4, PSW12

andergar

So I tried all the advice from everyone and many thanks, but no help. So the other day I was talking to a Polk rep about getting some rubber pads for my R15's, I mentioned to him about my sub issue. He asked me how old was my receiver, I told him my Aiwa was about 5 years old. He recommended, even though the factory manual says to use RCA cable to plug the sub into the receiver, to unplug the cable from the tuner, make two new speaker wire cable connections, put new wire into the right and left front speaker connections, put those wires into the speaker input on the sub, turn off the sub setting on my tuner, and when your all done your sub will get signal all the time. So I figured, what the heck, I did a what he said. I first tried it with a FM station and BOOM, I got boom, boom bass. I next tried with X Men - 3, and BOOM, my wife told to turn it down. Like I was some teenager, playing my stereo too loud. Anyway, that solved my problem. Hope this helps others. Thanks again for the support and advice.

Steve
andergar@comcast.net

Grimster74

sbracer wrote:

DustinS,

Another 101 primer (literally) is:

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-Z77co2l2wqt/reviews/20031007/bass_management.html?print=1&page=all

Then 102
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-Ljy82luQgZy/reviews/20031021/home_bass.html?print=1&page=all

Grimster74,
Great room setup in your sig. link to pictures, BTW! I do have a question for you, and no disrespect intended. You said: "THX standards, which doesn't mean a hill of beans to most of if not all of us, states you should set all speakers to small and crossed over at 80Hz. That seems to be what most of us are running and it seems to have great results."

Your last sentence confirms you run exactly what THX recommends, that must give them some credibility though?

-Eric
Sony KV40XBR800, STR-DA3200ES, DVP-CX995V;
Polk RTi10, CSi3, RTi4, PSW12

Thats a very good point. I guess what I should have said is purchasing equipment with the THX logo on it. Why pay extra for a logo when you don't really need THX certified equipment to meet THX standards.