detail problem?

inispiritusengt
inispiritusengt Posts: 10
edited October 2006 in 2 Channel Audio
hello all... sorry for my language... I'm from Turkiye...
my problem is detail... detail is not enough for me... I was test a lot of pre amp...
for example: audio Research ls70... primaluna 3... antic sound lab Passive T2... benchark dac1...

benchmark is give a best detail and wide soundstage for my system...
but detail... only a little bit...
what is my mistake?

my system:
speaker: B&W 703
Amps: Krell KAV250A
Pre Amps: none
CD Player: ah! new tube (volume control)
cable: ecosse sms 2.3 and symphony rca
Power Conditioner: Belkin
thanks...
Post edited by inispiritusengt on
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited October 2006
    Is your problem that you cannot find a preamp that gives the level of detail that you get with your cd-player hooked directly to your amplifier?

    By the way - welcome to Club Polk.

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • inispiritusengt
    inispiritusengt Posts: 10
    edited October 2006
    I cannot find a preamp... anyone... never solve my detail problem...
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  • inispiritusengt
    inispiritusengt Posts: 10
    edited October 2006
    McLoki wrote:
    Is your problem that you cannot find a preamp that gives the level of detail that you get with your cd-player hooked directly to your amplifier?
    no! my system detail is low... I try to solve my problem with a preamp...
    McLoki wrote:
    welcome to Club Polk.
    thank you...
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  • haimoc
    haimoc Posts: 1,031
    edited October 2006
    I am wondering if you have tried those preamps and amp with different speakers. My friend has a pair of B&W 703, and he did not satisfy (details/clarity) with these speakers and plans to get 802 next year.
    -?¿-
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  • inispiritusengt
    inispiritusengt Posts: 10
    edited October 2006
    haimoc wrote:
    I am wondering if you have tried those preamps and amp with different speakers. My friend has a pair of B&W 703, and he did not satisfy (details/clarity) with these speakers and plans to get 802 next year.
    I dont know... but I try prima luna 2 (amp) in my system... detail was very very good...
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  • haimoc
    haimoc Posts: 1,031
    edited October 2006
    I don't know much about 703s, but in my experience, the source (CD player) is a major component to give better detail and clarity. Maybe, this is something you might want to look into.
    -?¿-
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  • inispiritusengt
    inispiritusengt Posts: 10
    edited October 2006
    my system's detail is very good with primaluna2...
    but with krell kav-250a... not enough...
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  • haimoc
    haimoc Posts: 1,031
    edited October 2006
    Accordingly, it sounds like primaluna2 will give what you are looking for. I might misunderstand your question from original post...
    -?¿-
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  • inispiritusengt
    inispiritusengt Posts: 10
    edited October 2006
    my language problem... ıts very bad sorry...
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited October 2006
    inispiritusengt wrote:
    hello all... sorry for my language... I'm from Turkiye...
    my problem is detail... detail is not enough for me... I was test a lot of pre amp...
    for example: audio Research ls70... primaluna 3... antic sound lab Passive T2... benchark dac1...

    benchmark is give a best detail and wide soundstage for my system...
    but detail... only a little bit...
    what is my mistake?

    my system:
    speaker: B&W 703
    Amps: Krell KAV250A
    Pre Amps: none
    CD Player: ah! new tube (volume control)
    cable: ecosse sms 2.3 and symphony rca
    Power Conditioner: Belkin
    thanks...

    Merhaba
    I would suspect the Ah! CDP. Though a great player, it's not exactly what I would call detailed; it's softer/kinder, more easy on the ear by design.

    Also try plugging your amplifier directly into the wall outlet. Sometimes conditioners can make amps sound a little subdued and slow.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • crossroadazn
    crossroadazn Posts: 69
    edited October 2006
    What you could do is change speaker placements like toe ins, closer or make your seat lower or higher. Cheers.
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  • inispiritusengt
    inispiritusengt Posts: 10
    edited October 2006
    I will try your all advise... this weekend... thanks...
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited October 2006
    If you want to make a musical system then I would shy away from companies who dont focus their product line on the musicality of each piece instead trying to make everything for everybody. You might look for companies who try to make their gear neutral to hear the detail you want. It is a system, a grouping of individual pieces dependant upon each other, change any part and the entire system changes.

    The market is saturated with audio gear, good gear bad gear and indifferent gear, sifting through the muddle is a challenge but also part of the fun.

    +1 with SteveinAz., using the Ah without a pre is not going to do it for you.

    RT1
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited October 2006
    The thing is, you aren't getting the detail running your CDP straight to the amp. The pre-amp is not the problem, here.

    I think you need to get a non tubed CDP. One of the problems with the design is they try to "soften" the "harsh" output of cd's. Perhaps you would do better by going with a solid state unit.

    British designs are known for their neutrality. Some even say they sound sterile...
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  • inispiritusengt
    inispiritusengt Posts: 10
    edited October 2006
    amulford wrote:
    Perhaps you would do better by going with a solid state unit...
    what is your advise... for cdp...
    Audio Aero (labs), arcam, cec or rega... :confused:
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  • W WALDECKER
    W WALDECKER Posts: 900
    edited October 2006
    inispiritusengt wrote:
    what is your advise... for cdp...
    Audio Aero (labs), arcam, cec or rega... :confused:
    ;) i am going out on a limb here,but my guess is that you need more gain than your Ah! cdp can provide to your power amplifier. is the volume circuit in your Cdp in the digital domain or the analog ? if it is in the digital domain and you are not running the thing full tilt you are sacrificing alot of detail.if so you probably need a seperate preamplifier. good luck....WCW III
    Rogue Audio stereo 100 tube amplifier - Lector Zoe preamplifier with 6H30 pi's
    .Audience AU24SE speaker and ic cables- Chord Qutest DAC - Black Cat Silverstar II 75ohm digital cable-Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature system with large bass cabinets to accommodate 10" Seas magnesium woofers.2xhmpsuownoj.jpg
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  • inispiritusengt
    inispiritusengt Posts: 10
    edited October 2006
    W WALDECKER wrote:
    ;) iis the volume circuit in your Cdp in the digital domain or the analog ?
    ah cdp use in digital domain...
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  • W WALDECKER
    W WALDECKER Posts: 900
    edited October 2006
    inispiritusengt wrote:
    ah cdp use in digital domain...
    :) when you turn back the volume control of your CDP in the digital domain to decrease the sound level coming from your loudspeakers you are restricting musical information which equals not enough detail.using a decent preamplifier with the volume control turned to maximum on your CDP should rectify your problem with detail.again good luck....WCW III
    Rogue Audio stereo 100 tube amplifier - Lector Zoe preamplifier with 6H30 pi's
    .Audience AU24SE speaker and ic cables- Chord Qutest DAC - Black Cat Silverstar II 75ohm digital cable-Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature system with large bass cabinets to accommodate 10" Seas magnesium woofers.2xhmpsuownoj.jpg
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited October 2006
    inispiritusengt wrote:
    what is your advise... for cdp...
    Audio Aero (labs), arcam, cec or rega... :confused:

    That would depend on your budget. There are many to pick from, and prices vary.
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  • inispiritusengt
    inispiritusengt Posts: 10
    edited October 2006
    amulford wrote:
    That would depend on your budget. There are many to pick from, and prices vary.
    1500-2000 dolar... :(
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited October 2006
    All of those would be good choices.

    This is a little over budget, and is pre owned. I think it would go good with your amplifier:

    Krell SACD

    Match that with a Krell Pre amp and I beleive you will get the sound you are looking for. Maybe something along this line:

    Krell KSL line stage preamp

    Now these are used pieces, and I understand you are in Turkey. But hopefully you get the idea. The synergy should be pretty good with these pieces.

    I think you are trying for a sound you may not get with tubes. You might be better off with a fully solid state stereo system.
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited October 2006
    I am not familiar with how the Ah cdp handles the gain of the signal, but it might be worth finding out if you dont know. That player though got good reviews. Each manufacturer varies a bit in how they pass the signal through the gain control everything from cheap intergrated circuity on up.

    RT1
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