Improving my SDA1Cs

Ron Temple

I've had them over a week now and am still amazed at how good these speakers sound. That being said, they sounded better at Luc's running on a Yamaha Z series receiver. The soundstage and detail are such an improvement, I can't complain, but I'm only getting hints of the SDA effect. Current placement is a problem, slightly corner loaded, right speaker is within 6" of a french patio door and the left within 6" of a 5' opening into the dining room. If you guys think this is the cause, then I'll be patient until I can flat wall these puppies in the living room.

I'm thinking another reason I'm not getting the full effect is power. My more than modest 2 channel Audiosource AmpOne sounds very clean, but starts going into the red between -25 and -22. It's loud and can go louder, but I fear clipping. It's an integrated, not a power amp, so I'm thinking it's just not throwing enough current. Thoughts?

What I do want to do is replace the tweeters with the silk dome RD-194s. I assume I just give Polk a call. With some content the sibulance is annoying.

Anyway, if you have thoughts as to placement, power or both being the culprit, please share.

madmax

I'd check the SDA functionality because it should be working fine the way you have them set up. Play some music, put all the sound to the left speaker (right speaker no volume) and listen in front of the right speaker to hear the right SDA speakers. If you hear nothing you have a problem. Try doing the opposite to test the left SDA speakers.
madmax

Ron Temple

Thanks, I'll give it a try tonight.

hoosier21

Ron

You have a real placement problem. You have them in a corner, and both speakers SDA drivers are firing into a wall.

This will kill the SDA effect.

danger boy

Do you have the SDA cable? that will affect the sound too.

Ron Temple

hoosier21 wrote:

Ron

You have a real placement problem. You have them in a corner, and both speakers SDA drivers are firing into a wall.

This will kill the SDA effect.

That was my 1st thought, but madmax thinks it should work. Who's right

dangerboy wrote:

Do you have the SDA cable? that will affect the sound too.

Yep.

I knew this placement wouldn't be ideal and I am going to move them into another room, once wired. The speakers worked fine at Luc's and I babied them on the way home. They are fine. I'm trying to decide whether placement is causing the soundstage or I need a new amp right now.

Does anyone have any opinions on pro amps? There's a huge thread on AVS espousing the benefits. Sounds like a reasonably priced solution for a ton of power if there aren't any drawbacks...like this...

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=248-747&ctab=4#Tabs

danger boy

upgrade your speaker wires and interconnects too.. that will help.

hoosier21

I don't thnk Madmax had his glasses on when he looked at the picture.

Loud & Clear

I'd play with placement some; distance from you to the speakers, distance from each speaker to the other speaker. Maybe pull them towards you a bit, get them out in front of the television some, and make sure they're not toed out. Many disagree, but I find that I like them toed in exactly two degrees; that of course would vary dependent upon distance from the speakers - in my case I'm 6'6" from each speaker's inside front edge. You'll get them dialed-in in time by way of sheer determination. Oh, and I disagree with Danger with respect to the wires. You'll get good SDA sound out of them without upgrading your wires, imo.

Ron Temple

hoosier21 wrote:

I don't thnk Madmax had his glasses on when he looked at the picture.

So, IYO, I can hold off on the amp decision because it's not the problem (at low volume)?

Any opinions on the pro amp question?

RT

strider

I'm having similar issues with my recently up-and-running 2B's. My placement is just as undesireable as yours, but I (believe) I have plenty of decent power frrom my Carver. My $.02 would be that it's not a power issue.

hoosier21

pro amps have a fan, the noise drove me crazy

Loud & Clear

Another issue is the recordings. Listened to the same tracks that were played at Luc's? This will have nothing to do with power or wires, imo.

dbnh

I recommend adressing the placement issue re: aligning your 1Cs with the spacing requirements in Polk's literature. I feel it makes a substantive, very positive difference in optimizing the SDA effect.

Re: tweeter upgrade - well worth the investment, to my ears with my gear.

Regarding the current drive of your system - I once thought I had enough when I was driving my ICs with a (a) NAD 2200PE, which was later replaced by (b) an Odyssey Stratos amp (45 Amps, and lots more refinement across the audio spectrum, including the bass where the NAD seems to thrive.). However, I upgraded to (c) a pair of Odyssey Extreme Monos (>140 amps; the Odyssey web site states, "Much more than adequate"). With the Extreme Monos in play, my system is even much more resolving, and the speakers, well - the word "effortless" comes to mind. I feel from my experiences that the SDA 1Cs thrive on quality high current amps. YMMV.

Best of luck tweaking your system to your liking. And as they say on Head-Fi, "Sorry about your wallet."

Ron Temple

Loud & Clear wrote:

Another issue is the recordings. Listened to the same tracks that were played at Luc's? This will have nothing to do with power or wires, imo.

I'm trying to get Luc over here to listen to the SVS driver upgrade. I'll ask him to bring some tunes. What we listened to on his rig mostly was my stuff, which sounded outstanding, a couple of Patricia Barber tracks took advantage with vocals blown out to a full 270 degrees. In my room, I'm getting a large and deep soundstage, but maybe 190-200 degrees (I think I'm explaining well enough?).

hoosier21 wrote:

pro amps have a fan, the noise drove me crazy

So has my Mits 1080P DLP...annoying as hell

dbnh wrote:

However, I upgraded to (c) a pair of Odyssey Extreme Monos (>140 amps; the Odyssey web site states

A bit out of my budget, but I am thinking of monos if some folks here can walk me through getting around the common ground issue.

Thanks for all the advice folks. I'll start limited tweaking and get back...

RT

Ron Temple

madmax,

I did your test. Dimensional speakers are working.

Thanks.

RT

Mike Reeter

My experience with SDA's is;it's all about placement,placement and placement.

Better amps,i/c's,cables and a better source might help a litte also:D

madmax

Ron Temple wrote:

madmax,

I did your test. Dimensional speakers are working.

Thanks.

RT

Cool. Always good to make sure everything is working properly before changing everything. I guess it must be placement. I had mine set up like that once and it was OK, not great like having them on a long wall but ok.
madmax

reeltrouble1

pro amps are not really a solution for home audio.

RT1
The 1C's rock, just experiment a bit, the recommended placement is 3 ft from sidewalls and 5" from back wall no toe in, but you have to work with what you have.

RT1

ohskigod

Placement is an issue I'm sure, but I'm going to be the darkhorse here and put power at the top of the list. the Audiosourde is what, 50 -60 watts? and I'm pretty sure the SDA1c is less efficient that the SDA 1b's I had.

I'd put improving amplification near the top of the list. perhaps above the tweeter replacement.

Ron Temple

ohskigod wrote:

Placement is an issue I'm sure, but I'm going to be the darkhorse here and put power at the top of the list. the Audiosourde is what, 50 -60 watts? and I'm pretty sure the SDA1c is less efficient that the SDA 1b's I had.

I'd put improving amplification near the top of the list. perhaps above the tweeter replacement.

The AmpOne is 80/2 @ 8ohms and 125/2 @ 4ohms. So I'm figuring it's probably ~ 100wpc @ 6ohms. It's clean, it's limited. I know I have to upgrade and I'm looking. I'm thinking of monos to save some coin. The Behringer A500 or EP1500 also look interesting and affordable.

I'm using 14g wire and the ICs I bought from a buddy I can't remember the name of, but appear to be quality 1 meter cables.

Ron Temple

Yesterday a buddy came over and we hooked up his Marantz 7200 2 channel. It's an integrated A/B 25wpc Class A, 95 Class A/B @ 8 ohms. It's got quite a bit more headroom than the little Audiosource and really opened up the highs. Maybe too much, the Audiosource while being stretched sounds warmer. Anyway, I've pretty much decided to give a pro amp a try. There's a bunch of adoptees on AVS and AH that swear by them. I'm looking at the QSC RMX1450 and PLX1804, both are highly recommended as extremely quiet with a ton of clean power (280x2 @8 ohms and 600x2 @ 8 ohms). They are not pretty, but that's not my motivation. I'll let you know how it works out, when I make my decision.

danger boy

maybe you might want to think about upgrading the crossovers...

i don't know of anyone personally who uses a pro amp in their 2 ch or HT rigs. i guess it's worth a try.. i think pro amps are designed for sheer volume over good dynamics and subtle nuances.

BUt i am curious about your take on it once you get a pro amp.

Dennis Gardner

No disprespect intended but....your awkward offset corner loaded/ open area setup is trying to offend every SDA setup rule. The SDAs are probably the worst speakers anyone could use for a corner rig.

Just my take from your pic...........even scrunching them into a small room area with 90 degree walls is easier to tweak than what you are doing.

Roy Munson

^
^
Ditto

Ron Temple

Dennis Gardner wrote:

No disprespect intended but....your awkward offset corner loaded/ open area setup is trying to offend every SDA setup rule. The SDAs are probably the worst speakers anyone could use for a corner rig.

Just my take from your pic...........even scrunching them into a small room area with 90 degree walls is easier to tweak than what you are doing.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Well shame on me, Dennis...j/k. I realized that I'd probably have this problem when I purchased these from Luc. They will be going into a 22x18x8 room along the 22' wall shortly. I realize now, I'm not going to be able to take advantage of the SDA effect in the current room. But giving them a bit more juice did open them up more. So I've got to do both, move the speakers and get the new amp to enjoy them to their fullest. I still think they are pretty amazing even now.

Dennis Gardner

I have mine in an 11 foot wide room on either side of my 92" screen. In HT/movie mode, I don't really need the SDA effect, so I have them set at the edge of the screen about 1 foot from the side walls and it works fine. For 2 channel use, I move them in to give around 3 foot on either side and the SDA dimensional effect just opens up.

SDA really does like to have equal distant surfaces regardless of how far they may be. The reflections can be a very big part of cancellations.

Ron Temple

Well I wimped out on the pro amp question and won a Carver TFM 35 2 channel amp on ebay, 250wpc into 8 and 400 into 4. I see that several of you guys are using Carvers, so I assume this is a common ground amp. I asked the question of the Carver forum, but no replies yet.

Can anyone confirm. I get the amp tomorrow.

RT

hoosier21

confirmed

Ron Temple

Thanks

Ron Temple

Plugged in the Carver TFM 35 and calibrated today. First, huge improvement in soundstage, width, depth and punch. Really like the warm sound. However, the left channel is a couple of dbs down, the gauge not as active, and I might be hearing distortion from that side as well (got an ear infection, so it could be me). I've got it balanced so it's very workable, but wondering if I should 1) find an easy tweak, 2)send it back to the seller and fight ebay ("as is"), 3)bite the big one and have it checked over and possibly repaired. The amp is in excellent shape cosmetically and has a couple of recent tags on it from an amp shop (Oct.06).

Also, the distortion sounds like it might be a tweet which I was going to replace anyway, but it wasn't apparent being powered by the Audiosource. Perhaps it wasn't getting enough juice to highlight the fault.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks.