A couple questions for the old heads...

Early B.

Got a few questions for the guys who have been doing this audio thing for many years...

1. Do you find yourself going in circles by changing out gear? In other words, does your main 2-channel system sound any better than it did, say 5 years ago, when you had different gear?

2. What is the main impetus for making changes in your system?
-- is it because you simply enjoy making changes?
-- is it because you are on an endless quest for the perfect sound?
-- is it because your musical preferences are constantly changing?
-- is it because you have to keep up with technological improvements?

3. What components comprised the best synergistic system you ever assembled?

4. Looking back on all of those purchases, you've spent quite a bit of money, haven't you? Well, if you could do it all over again, what approach would you take to minimize the cash outlay?


The reason I'm asking these question is to get an idea of what the future holds. It'll help me (and hopefully others) do a better job of planning our next purchases.

Thanks.

dkg999

1) Didn't go in a lot of circles, however I did take about a 7 year break from the hobby due to a WAF issue that was then resolved I have experimented with a lot of gear, mainly as it became available to try, rather than by a specific plan. My current system is the best overall sounding system I have owned.

2) I do enjoy making changes, although at this point it seems to take a large step-up in gear/cost to make a good positive change, and I am still very much mid-fi. I will probably slow down on making changes because my 2 ch system is very enjoyable and I am pretty happy with it.

3) My current system! I have learned a lot about system synergy from this forum and my current system seems to benefit from it!

4) It's a journey, I wouldn't change the path I took!

The current system is:

Jolida JD100 CDP - stock tubes, Signal Cable digital magic power cord, Signal Cable Analog Two IC's.
Parasound T/DQ-1600 Tuner - Godar antenna (picks up WXRT in Chicago close to 100 miles away!), Audioquest Sidewinder IC's, stock power cable
Rogue Audio 66 Magnum pre-amp - Sylvania 12au7 triple mica black plates (I think this is what Russman shipped it with!), Signal Cable power cable, silicone tube damper rings
Parasound HCA-1500 x 2 - ss power amps, PS Audio Prelude power cables, used in vertical bi-amp configuration.
Magnepan 1.6QR speakers - Signal Cable Ultra Double-Run speaker cables, Mye stands with bases loaded with lead shot and uprights filled with audiophile sand (reptile sand from Petco ), cryo-treated ceramic fuses.
Panamax 5100 - power conditioning and surge protection

I plan to add a sealed sub (new SVS maybe!) when I move the system out of the current apartment to a house.

George Grand

I haven't made any serious changes in awhile. The AR-9's about 5 years ago because I always wanted a pair and they were within driving distance (You don't think Troy actually knew about a quality piece of hi-fi without being told do you?). My ears don't deserve any more upgrades, they're shot.

Cost a bunch of money for all the stuff I have? After 10 or so years of buying and selling, I figure all the gear in this house is paid for from that. I know for certain that the 24' x 16' addition that cost me $30k was. I'm transmitting from there right now. The AR-9 room for lack of a better term

reeltrouble1

1. No not really circles, although I had a few dissapointments with gear they were far between as I upgraded things. My understanding wife is a big help.

2. I change things for better sound no doubt in my Woodshed Rig, the other ones are for new technology. Its all about the music for me. Always has been and always will be.

3. My present 2 ch Rig is my favorite system thus far but I sort of felt that way about each of them at one time or another.

4. I never minded spending dough on audio and I still don't, I agree its a journey and its been very rewarding listening to beautiful sounds from such talented folks, everyone has to start somewhere, within there budget and so on, I do think you can have an exciting viseral sound and not spend twenty grand to get it. Music has always been a big part of my life.

RT1

dkg999

RT1 - I agree on the issue of not needing to spend lots of money to get a good system! With all the DIY, vintage, and good mid-priced gear options available, getting a system that has excellent sound quality within its limits can be pretty reasonable. If you don't need to rock the house off of its foundation, then some of the older, used, and mid-fi gear does have excellent sound quality.

janmike

I am not one of the guys who has years of experience in audio, but research tends to always put me in the right place. My initial purchase of gear was more on "I need to have it now." Later, and with my current gear, I spend a lot more time asking questions, internet research and the odd trip south to listen if I can. Hey, it gives me time to save the money for the real things I want. I am not sure I really understand people who switch things out every few months. Perhaps they are looking for something that can never be. It is fun to experiment, but I think at some point you need to hang on to things for a reasonable amount of time. Hey, there are people that switch vehicles every 6 months as well. No me.

organ

1. This is where I feel I had some luck. I never found myself going around in circles. I went from the lower model RT's to the bigger ones, then to LSi, and finally to what I have today. I had to make sure the speakers increased in quality for each upgrade. Same thing with the other components.

2. The quest for perfect sound. Of course we all like to change something once in a while by tube rolling or swapping gear with stuff we already own. That's what makes this hobby fun, interesting and addictive.

3. I have 2 systems to add on here.
No.1: NAD C541 cdp,
ASL AQ2004DT pre,
Dynaco ST-70,
RT800i speakers

No. 2: NAD C541
ASL AQ2004DT
ASL KMP22-FOX
Klipsch RF-35

4. If I could do it all again and save some cash, I wouldn't have bothered with starting from the lower level RT's. Instead I would go for the bigger towers and jump straight to LSi.

madmax

1. Do you find yourself going in circles by changing out gear? In other words, does your main 2-channel system sound any better than it did, say 5 years ago, when you had different gear?

Not at all. Each upgrade has made a lasting enhancement. I started with low powered SS, moved to high powered SS/entry level quality, on to high powered SS/medium quality, then to low powered tube integrateds, to tube pre/amps and finally to higher powered tubes. Still a lot of options to explore.

2. What is the main impetus for making changes in your system?
-- is it because you simply enjoy making changes?
-- is it because you are on an endless quest for the perfect sound?
-- is it because your musical preferences are constantly changing?
-- is it because you have to keep up with technological improvements?

Endless quest for the perfect sound. I can stand imperfections for awhile but then they start grating on me so I fix it by upgrading.

3. What components comprised the best synergistic system you ever assembled?

AI preamp, Soundcraftsmen high power amplifier, SRS 1.2, Luxman CD player

4. Looking back on all of those purchases, you've spent quite a bit of money, haven't you? Well, if you could do it all over again, what approach would you take to minimize the cash outlay?

It is more about re-sale. It doesn't matter how much cash you lay out, it is how much of it you can re-coup. For example, putting money into amplifiers and good quality speakers cost you nothing in the end if you buy them used. On the other hand a receiver, logic decoder or any other rapidly changing technology is money down the drain. For example a used amplifier for $1K is worth $1K or more ten years down the road. A $1K logic decoder is worth maybe $200 a year later and $50 from there on.


The reason I'm asking these question is to get an idea of what the future holds. It'll help me (and hopefully others) do a better job of planning our next purchases.

ND13

1. No circles, but I have made a couple of lateral changes.

2. Endless quest.

3. 2 very different rigs
A. Modded AMC CD8b-Dodd ELP-ASL Wave 20s-Monitor 7As(ask HTRookie about that one)

B. Sheng Ya CD-S10-Dodd MLP-Parasound HCA 1200 MkII-SRS 2s

4. I'd sell off some gear before making further upgrades. I tend to hold onto too much gear. The good thing is I never charge anything, cash or trades only. I very rarely buy anything new.

Flash21

I have slowly and gradually improved my system over the years, never in circles. Of course each change involved a flurry of auditioning that is both fun and a PITA. It helped greatly that I have a close friend who is into this also, and we shared our auditioning chores and benefits.

I find it rewarding to make a noticable improvement and enjoy it for a while before getting into any further improvements. That way you reap the benefits of each of your efforts. You also know your system better; changing only one variable at a time allows you to concentrate on that variable without interference from other variables. And doing this improvement arc incrementely allowed me to afford it, i would be very reluctant to blow all my meager savings at once on the system I have now.

In terms of money, I find patience to be a good thing, if you have to have the Next Big Thing right now, you will pay through the nose for it. Almost every piece in my system is a dealer demo that cost roughly half of retail and yet came from a factory authorized dealer with full warranty.

wantRTA12's

Thanks very much, Early B., for what is, IMO, an exceptional question! It seems that a hobby is a mere curiosity for some, more of an interest for others and still an outright obsession for others. Whatever, I guess one gets out of it what one puts into it. (How profound).
I appreciate the way you worded your question. At this early point in my audio "career," I'm just looking for good sounding equipment on which to play my music collection. I'm a bit fearful of diving in much deeper because I'm leery of going off of some deep end and joining the ranks of the obsessed without having the cash or time to become one of them! I have very modest equipment and find myself enjoying it immensely.
How much I continue to tweak my system remains to be seen. But I sure appreciate the kindly given advice of some of the forum members who've helped me out! These folks seem, IMO & for what little that's worth!, pretty balanced with respect to wanting to improve their sound and how much they're willing to part with ($) to do so!

Thanks again!

Midnite Mick

This is an excellent thread. I have not been around long enough to justify your question but feel like sharing my thoughts. I am in agreement with a few others in that it does not require an enormous amount of money to acquire an exceptional system. However, I think that for most of us unfortunately it has required alot of money to learn this. If I new then what I know now I would have avoided mistakes and done things differently.

Such as used electronics, DIY speakers (biggest money saver you can make), and a receiver to take care of the HT.

Mike

Early B.

Thanks or the responses.

Here is a summary of what I have gleaned from this thread:

* be patient.
* don't go in circles by making lateral purchase decisions; always take it to the next level
* save your money and buy what you really want.
* refrain from changing out gear too frequently; hold onto it and appreciate it before considering something new
* research and learn as much as you can before you buy.
* don't spend too much money on the latest technological fad.
* always buy gear that is likely to have a strong resale value.
* high quality doesn't necessarily have a high price tag.
* enjoy your ****

OK, the last one is mine.

steveinaz

Early B. wrote:

1. Do you find yourself going in circles by changing out gear? In other words, does your main 2-channel system sound any better than it did, say 5 years ago, when you had different gear?

2. What is the main impetus for making changes in your system?
-- is it because you simply enjoy making changes?
-- is it because you are on an endless quest for the perfect sound?
-- is it because your musical preferences are constantly changing?
-- is it because you have to keep up with technological improvements?

3. What components comprised the best synergistic system you ever assembled?

4. Looking back on all of those purchases, you've spent quite a bit of money, haven't you? Well, if you could do it all over again, what approach would you take to minimize the cash outlay?

1. I did run circles for awhile, my speakers ended that. I've said it before, and I'll say it again...SPEAKERS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT COMPONENT.

2. I don't do upgrades unless I detect something is wrong---IOW, I don't upgrade for the sake of upgrading.

3. My current system is the most synergistic/satisfying I've owned to date.

4. I would buy what I wanted (instead of settling for what I could afford) right off the bat, impatience is the enemy .

Normanality

Early B. wrote:

Thanks or the responses.

Here is a summary of what I have gleaned from this thread:

* be patient.
* don't go in circles by making lateral purchase decisions; always take it to the next level
* save your money and buy what you really want.
* refrain from changing out gear too frequently; hold onto it and appreciate it before considering something new
* research and learn as much as you can before you buy.
* don't spend too much money on the latest technological fad.
* always buy gear that is likely to have a strong resale value.
* high quality doesn't necessarily have a high price tag.
* enjoy your ****

OK, the last one is mine.

Good summary!

For me, after a 10+ year hiatus from audio, the single most important thing that I failed to do when starting back up was to define what I was really wanting out of my system...ie. what would produce the sound I wanted playing the style of music I wanted. I am really into acoustic instruments, piano, guitar.... female jazz vocals and nearfield listening. Once I realized that, I knew I needed speakers that accel'd in that arena. Ribbons do it well and electrostatics do it better! Beyond that, finding the right tube gear is more trial & error and lots of investigation. I took a chance on the Modwright gear based on a number of reports and am glad I did.

Joey_V

Early B. wrote:

Got a few questions for the guys who have been doing this audio thing for many years...

My experience spans about 4 years. Not sure if I'm an old hand....

Early B. wrote:

1. Do you find yourself going in circles by changing out gear? In other words, does your main 2-channel system sound any better than it did, say 5 years ago, when you had different gear?

I think that my ML Summits with a Hovland HP-100 preamp and a Plinius SA102 Class A amp is better than my Klipsch Promedias of 4 years ago.

Early B. wrote:

2. What is the main impetus for making changes in your system?
-- is it because you simply enjoy making changes?
-- is it because you are on an endless quest for the perfect sound?
-- is it because your musical preferences are constantly changing?
-- is it because you have to keep up with technological improvements?

Endless quest to reach audio nirvana.... although just when I thought I reached it, a 3 minute audition with a lowly Rogue Audio Metis tube pre showed me exactly how much further the ML Summits could scale up the audio mountain. The result of the in-home audition? A Plinius SA102 and a Hovland HP-100 are on their way as of today.

Early B. wrote:

3. What components comprised the best synergistic system you ever assembled?

So far? Bar none, Rogue Metis + Rotel RB1090 -> ML Summits. Soon, I'll hear what the Plinius/Hovland combo can do.

Early B. wrote:

4. Looking back on all of those purchases, you've spent quite a bit of money, haven't you? Well, if you could do it all over again, what approach would you take to minimize the cash outlay?

I tried my best to buy used and in as great a condition as possible. My ML was only 1 month old, the Plinius is brand new, the Hovland was as good a deal as possible.

If I had to change one thing, I messed up going with the 2nd top of the line MLVantage as I knew I wanted the Summits. That particular error cost me about $1K as I had to sell at a loss.

I say, GO BIG OR GO HOME. Oh... and GO USED!

Joey

Early B.

Just thought I'd dig up this old thread. It's an interesting read. I should have re-read it a few times over the past couple of years. I made some lateral moves (and a couple of backwards steps) based on budget. Those moves should be avoided. Aim high.

steveinaz

One important thing I've learned is to keep things simple. Ditch the "gadgetry" and stay with proven equipment; there is no silver bullet. I think your purchase of the Placette was a major step in the right direction. My combo of the Placette and Benchmark is stellar, I love it. Those 2 pieces have made a significant change in my system.

madmax

I had a few components which held me back and caused me to go in circles. Once I finally got rid of them I found the more money you can spend the better the sound can get. Of course "more money" doesn't guarantee anything and with a little know how you can save tons.

dkg999

I re-read my original response, and I'm still good with it. I think there is definetely two sides to this hobby, the gear and the music. When the two merge is when I think you achieve the synergy that leads to the most satisfying experience.

Last weekend I spent some time with an old friend I hadn't had time to catch up with in a while. Besides listening to his nicely restored vintage console with 78 rpm mono spinning, we drank a few brews in his man-cave listening to his system. It was a nicely restored and gone-through Pioneer SX-450, a pair of beautiful B&O S-75 speakers, a vintage Thoren's TT with a sure V15 cart, and a newer Marantz CDP. Not expensive, not leading edge, but damn did it sound good!

mhardy6647

edit: oh, a two-year-old thread. sorry.

ben62670

2 because I are on an endless quest for the perfect sound:)
4 Go used on anything, but digital. Even then you can get 2 years old at a substantial savings. 10yo digital is just not up to par with even mediocre digital today(a few exceptions).

For me I don't mind slowly working my way up the chain. I have had lots of different amps, and a few Pre's. Most were recouped at near what I paid for them. Take your time shopping. You can wait for a good deal. If you don't like it, or want to upgrade you can pass it on to another Polkie:)
Ben

RuSsMaN

Classic.

Quit overthinking everything. This isn't rocket surgery, it's audio.