Help me with some toobs...

Joey_V

Alright, we had a little Chicago Mini-Meet for Martin Logan owners and I heard what a tube cdp sounded like vs a full Class A cdp.... and I liked what the tubes brought to the table.

So.... I'm wondering... if I were to go with tubes, what are my options?

1. Go with an integrated tube amplifier like the $3000 modified Jolida JD-1000RC?

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatube&1163898104

2. Go with a Tube preamp?

3. Go separates - all tubes?

Thing is, I like my amp the way it is and I'm getting a lot of suggestions from the Martin Logan forum to switch only the preamp that way I get the benefit of tubes and still keep the huge current supply of the dual monoblock Rotel 1090.

What do you guys recommend?

I have an unlimited budget.

Ok ok.... so I have a budget. Just wanted to see the look on your face.... budget stands as so:

Tube preamp + amp = $2500
Tube preamp = $1000
Tube integrated = $2500

Thanks Polkies!

Joey

Oh... keep in mind... the Martin Logan Summits are a 4 ohm speaker and it dips to .7ohm at 20khz... starting on a downward slope from 4ohm starting at 13khz all the way to 20khz.

dorokusai

Tube Pre + SS. You can experience tube signature and still drop some brutal power on the ML's.

You don't even need to spend that kind of money, are you high?

I'm not recommending shite, you're on your own. This is where you should try to learn to really listen not follow in footsteps. It's the downfall of the hobby.

organ

I agree with Doro. He's right, there's no need to spend that kind of cash. You can get a killer tube pre under 1k. If I had ML's, I'd use SS power on them.

Joey_V

dorokusai wrote:

I'm not recommending shite, you're on your own. This is where you should try to learn to really listen not follow in footsteps. It's the downfall of the hobby.

Damn you Doro... you're noncompliant!

Early B.

Man, I'd pump those summits with big tubes.

Not much advice I can give you. Like others have said, you're on your own. I can give you my personal preference -- go integrated. I like the simplicity of it -- just one chasis, one power cord, one set of interconnects, etc. I'd go with 50 or 60 wpc. The Summits have a decent sensitivity (92 dB), so 50 tube watts should be plenty (unless you really like to crank it up). With your budget, I'd look at BAT, a modded Jolida, well... there's just too many out there to name.

dorokusai

Joey_V wrote:

Damn you Doro... you're noncompliant!

That's me in a nutshell. I'm sure you'll make a good choice, stick with your gut, you'll be fine.

RuSsMaN

I've got a $350 (used) tube pre in my reference rig (I sold my extra to BDT), and the quote from Absolute Sound was 'You can't do signifcantly better, at any price' - and I couldn't agree more.

What is it? F you. I'm always looking for another.

Tube pre, sand amp, DONE. Headroom and warmth, and no second mortgage for GOOD sound.

Cheers,
Russ

Joey_V

I'm at work at the moment, but good thing the ER is dead. I have been surfing the web for hours looking at these god forsaken tube preamps and amps.

I like what I have read and the look of these Rogue audio products. I have a local seller (decibel audio, a store I've been to that sells Von Schweikerts and Audio Physic speakers) that is selling the Rogue Metis preamplifier for $749 from $1100 retail.


But I'm really really interested in the PrimaLuna Prologue 3 preamplifier. It has dual mono design with dual toroids and separate channel circuits. It uses Solen and Swelling caps among other things and is compared favorably to an ARC LS-16 mkII ($3000). Also, it is point to point wiring, no circuit boards. Build quality is superb also. The price is a little high at $1400... but I'm hoping to buy it for less on audiogon.


So.. I'll look around some more but I am thinking about heading out to the Decibel Audio shop tomorrow when I get out (and after I sleep.. stupid graveyard shift) and see if I can borrow the Rogue Metis for a day or 2.

This is getting real interesting, real fast.

Just when I thought the system was done, another upgrade.

Stupid upgraditis.

I swear.... I cant be doing this forever.

After preamp... I hope I'm done for a little while... unless a nice Plinius pops up. :eek:

Ok Joey.... focus... preamp first. :mad:

ND13

If you do decide to go with the integrated tube amp, the Jolida you posted will do just fine. It's in your budget, has 100 tube wpc, has been pimped and has a remote, what else could you ask for?

I like the tube pre/ss amp combo, too.

I don't think you can go wrong either way, just get the most watts you can afford in which ever avenue you take.

Joey_V

Bah... I'm on my own.

reeltrouble1

I would not spend a grand for a new piece, just look for quality parts with a well laid out circuit board, short paths, seperate power supplies, discreet signal paths. As mentioned the tube pre with the sand amp has been a winner for my present rigs, just watch the impedance for gross mismatches.

RT1

univera

On looks alone, that Jolida is saweet! I still have wood from looking at Troy D's tubes glowing inside his Sunfire. Can't wait to pet it again this weekend...Since no one will advise you and I am just getting my tube rig setup, I will say that Russ and Doro both speak highly of my Anthem Pre 2L. Just picked mine up today. Paid about $600.00 for a black unit, near mint. There is a suppossed NOS one in silver on the Gon for $700.00. Guy says he purchased from Canadian, unclaimed customs auction and paid alot, so he can't really deal. It has been relisted from original $800.00 asking price, so maybe you could work it. Can't see the pretty tubes with the cover on, however. I suggest spending less on the pre and upgrading the IKEA amp stand:D

I also looked into the Dared and Dodd ELP before finding my pre. Forum members speak highly of these in the $500.00 or so range. The Dodd is tough to find. New Dared's are for sale on Ebay. Both seem to have a reputation as excellent bang for the buck pieces. Have no idea if these are compatible with your rig.

Joey_V

Thanks Sean... will try!

However, I will make a stop at Decibel Audio down the street and bring over their Rogue Metis preamp and see what they do to the MIGHTY Summits.

Man... sometimes I wish you were here so I'd have someone to go on all these audio adventures with.

Though I have several audiophile friends (not at same insanity level though), most of my friends just want to drink beer, bar-hop, club-hop, watch movies, and dick around.

Which I like too.... but you have to have "audio adventures" somewhere in there!

dorokusai

I've dealt with Decibel Audio and my experience was really positive. Good luck, I'm sure you are in good hands.

If Zero asks you for pictures, RUN!....run as fast as you can. I didn't realize it until I sent some full nude photos and he slapped a restraining order on me. All I really wanted him to do is say he was my Page...

The S man will get you on the right track, no worries.

F1nut

Man... sometimes I wish you were here so I'd have someone to go on all these audio adventures with.

Be careful...be very careful what you ask for.

F1nut

You don't even need to spend that kind of money, are you high?

Too funny coming from a guy with a $4k+ retail tube pre amp, not to mention the rest.

Joey, you've got nice speakers that deserve a lot more than Rotel gear or entry level tube gear. Get out there and demo some hifi gear.

Joey_V

F1nut wrote:

Too funny coming from a guy with a $4k+ retail tube pre amp, not to mention the rest.

Joey, you've got nice speakers that deserve a lot more than Rotel gear or entry level tube gear. Get out there and demo some hifi gear.

I will F1.. remember, this whole deal is a starter system for me.

The REAL DEAL is going to be a monster. Everything I learn from this hifi setup will be applied to my next super system, when I finish residency.... 5 years man and I'll have atleast $40K-$50K worth of gear that'll blow the panties off anyone.

Anyway, right now, I just sold my RB1070 and I redid an A/Bx blind comparison between the 2 and I could tell which was playing almost all the time. The 1090 is NOT your typical midfi Rotel amp... and I stand by that statement.

This is my plan at the moment:
1. Get a tube preamp... keep the Rotel RC1070 preamp and use that for daily duties. Use the tube preamp for critical listening.
2. Be done and be content for a little while, no large upgrades unless they fall onto my lap.
3. During my residency years... about 1.5 to 2 years from now... when I actually get paid to do slave work, I'll get the current Plinius Class A amp or whatever is at that same league ($4-6K amplification).... or Levinson or what have you. Upgrade the preamp to something better perhaps... and then upgrade the DACs. This step will take some time as it is the next big costly upgrade. This step should prep me for THE speaker upgrade.
4. After finishing residency, plan is to get my hands on a used pair of Sonus Faber Stradivari or Amati Anniversario.. or what have you in the $20-30K category. Use current amps, pre's, DACs... blah blah blah.
5. Continually tweak system as time passes with electronics that have more synergy with said speakers. Upgrade if necessary.
6. Stay on same audio level indefinitely (as long as God allows me to)... move to newer speakers (at same level) if necessary, sell at slight loss, you know - rinse and recycle, etc. Same with electronics - rincse and recycle... blah blah....

That's pretty much the plan.

Right now, I'm on Step .5!

tonyb

"I swear.... I cant be doing this forever. "

Thanks for the laugh!!!!

madmax

I would go with a good tube preamp. That way in the future if you decide you want tube amps you will already have the pre and it won't be such a big step. (Not that there is anything wrong with an integrated).
madmax

Ricardo

Nice plan Joey...I just don't understand when people say "I'll use this for daily duties...and THIS for critical listening.."; what's with that "daily duties"? Don't you want to always hear the best you can???

Just a thought...I've heard many say things like this, and in my case I want to use my best gear every time I turn the damn thing on

Joey_V

HT,
Daily duties means like running the Summits off the PC or 360. I cant see myself punishing a good tube pre for that.... I feel bad for the little tubey guys.

Madmax,,
I'm thinking more along the lines of a good tube pre now... I dont think an integrated like the Jolida would work as it would be a hindrance (sp?) should the time come to move up another rung on the ladder.

However, now I'm thinking, if I skip the tube pre, I can upgrade the entire amplification (pre and amp) to a much grander level. If I take the money that I was going to put into the tube pre and add just a little bit in addition to selling off the entire Rotel setup, I might be able to swing something big.

That something big is the Musical Fidelity KW500 integrated 500w/ch DUAL MONOBLOCK amplifier (it has tubes in the pre section). If you guys seen this in person, it's a sight to behold. With a volume knob the size of your head.... ok maybe not that big. I'm getting a good offer on this $7,500 bad boy.

Ugh... options options.

Ok.. I'm headed to work. Cya.

Musical Fidelity KW500 pic!



Daaaaaaaaaaaang.

madmax

Have you been talking to F1Nut...

MF gear is very serious stuff. My name is madmax and I approve this gear...

Joey_V

Madmax approves! What am I waiting for then??

It's time... to research more into this bad boy and think of the ways to pay for it.

Ok, seriously, I gotta get to work.. I'm late.

madmax

I looked at those at one point after listening to F1's setup. I must say I don't see a downside with MF.

F1nut

Yep, that'll work.

audiobliss

Wow. How incredible it must be to be on such a grand level as that.

And to think, I'm over here wondering how I'm going to take care of a <$250 purchase! :eek:

Joey_V

I heard the MF kw500 when I bought my Summits... though my hands were strapped at the time regarding money so I never paid too much attention to it. However, I remember it sounding better than my setup right now. Better 3D image and freakily realistic. The only thing I didn't like from the auditi n was that the original owner of my Summits dialed the bass controls at 25hz and 50hz back since he doesn't like bass. Othe than that, it was as good a I ever heard the Summits sound.

I am really leaning towards the kw500 now... unless someone has other suggestions. Rowland gear may also be good... but it's hard to do home auditions at this level. Obviously I can't audition everything with the Summits themselves...

This is getting hairy... but GOOD hairy! Lol!

Joey_V

Zero wrote:

So long as you're happy - thats what matters most. It's solid gear.

You get hugs Sean!

F1nut

There is a new kw500 on Audiogon right now for under $5K.

dorokusai

That's a very nice piece of gear.

Joey_V

My deal is about $3K.... which is why if I'm going to get a $7500 item for that price... I better jump on it soon. The thing is, I dont want to sell off the Rotels just yet so I'm going to have to foot the bill for the KW500 on its own.

Then I want to compare the 2 again... this time in my system.

The Rotel will probably lose out (but who knows)... as I am hoping for a greater elation with the Summits. Then I will sell the Rotels.

This should quench both the need to get a tube preamp (since it basically IS one) and the need to upgrade the amp (since the KW500 IS a disgusting amp as it stands).

This should bring me to Step 2.

We'll see... I need to see what kind of funds I have remaining.

I may have to tap into the "other hobby" fund.

So you guys really think this is a good one, eh?

Cool cool...