October: **** & **** History Month

wingnut4772

jdhdiggs wrote:

Just because your one doesn't mean you're all of them. Get over yourself and quit being childish.

I'm just trying to show you that the **** community is doing the same thing the straight community is doing to ****. Your segregating yourself from other lifestyle minorities and demanding different rights.

But I am in the same group, right? I am not being childish- just making a point. I have already stated earlier that I believe teaching this agenda in schools is wrong so I am not requesting any special attention. I am actually a God fearing , Republican woman. ( although with Bush that may change- the Republican part:p ). No hard feelings, please. It's just a dialogue on an audio forum.

TroyD

I don't equate homosexuality to an illness. Illness implies that there is something wrong. Sexual orientation, IMHO, is a predisposition IE. not an active choice.

No, I don't have an objection to homosexuality as a part of sex education. Why would I? I would want my children to grow up to be happy and healthy and if they happen to be homosexual that's just the way it is.

I'm just not afraid of information and education. Ultimately, I think the MORE someone knows the better off they are.

BDT

jdhdiggs

There is only one group that its ok to make fun of in public anymore and **** aren't it.

wingnut4772

jdhdiggs wrote:

There is only one group that its ok to make fun of in public anymore and **** aren't it.

One legged nuns?

TroyD

hearingimpared wrote:

That is **** Troy. Who theses days other than a comedian get away with ridiculing **** in public? They have gotten the short end of the stick over the years but that is changing, maybe it should change over night like it did with Black People WHICH IT DIDN'T but it changed and still is evolving. Anyway **** all you want, that still brings us back to the issue this thread was started on. . .

I'm not bitching, I'm pointing out that you, too, are pushing an agenda. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nothing changed for blacks overnight, if you think it even changed quickly, you are deluding yourself.

Case in point. If you (generically) ridicule something that someone does, they usually say, oh, that's ****! It's acceptable. Right or wrong, it's a fact. I do it. I do NOT make an ethnic or racial comment. I'm just saying, it's acceptable to ridicule sexual orientation.

BDT

hearingimpared

TroyD wrote:

I'm not bitching, I'm pointing out that you, too, are pushing an agenda. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nothing changed for blacks overnight, if you think it even changed quickly, you are deluding yourself.

Case in point. If you (generically) ridicule something that someone does, they usually say, oh, that's ****! It's acceptable. Right or wrong, it's a fact. I do it. I do NOT make an ethnic or racial comment. I'm just saying, it's acceptable to ridicule sexual orientation.

BDT

First off I was being facetious about the overnight thing. I do not allow my sons to say, "that is ****." That makes no sense to me. However in my youth I used to call a coward a ****. But when my **** brother pointed out to me that he was offended by that I stopped, that was 20 years ago.

The issue still remains what the Phila school district did and the way they did it was reprehensible. I still can't get the "****" side of the argument to acknoweldge that.

unc2701

jdhdiggs wrote:

There is only one group that its ok to make fun of in public anymore and **** aren't it.

Oh you poor thing... clearly you've had a scrape with those mean, mean ****. They say such nasty things about us white male hetro's. It really hurts.

When I was in SF, I got lost and ended up on castro street... I just barely escaped. There was a whole pack of them! I hear they tie hetero's to the bumper of their trucks and drag them down dirt roads till they're completely dismembered!

hearingimpared

hearingimpared wrote:

That makes no sense to me. However in my youth I used to call a coward a ****. But when my **** brother pointed out to me that he was offended by that I stopped, that was 20 years ago.

I then started calling cowards pusseys. Then my wife told me that was offensive to her. Where oh where does it all end. I guess the next step is that a coward is going to tell me that he is offended by the word coward. I guess if I call him hero that would be better.

Everyone is way too sensitive including me.:D

jdhdiggs

TroyD wrote:

I don't equate homosexuality to an illness. Illness implies that there is something wrong. Sexual orientation, IMHO, is a predisposition IE. not an active choice.

And the mentally ill have an active choice? A bi-polar or depressed person has a choice? People are born with a predisposition to be something other than what is considered "normal", whether that is sexual persuaion or something else, people are born with things that seperate them from the "normal" people. Why should we segregate a special subset of these people an not recognize the others as well? Why can't we just teach tolerance across the board? Why do we have to do this segregation BS to teach tolerance?

Is being **** an illness? Well, it does occur in nature in other animals (so not a choice). But it also prevents the propagation of the species for that subset and has been found that most **** have abnormal growth patterns in the brain. That does sound like an illness to me. Does it make them less human? No, absolutely not. No more than having cancer or asthma makes you less human.

Darla: Depending on which stats you use, it does make you different from 90-99% of the "normal" population. If by saying you, and the rest of the groups I listed aren't in the "norm", than you are right. But the differences in the "outside norm" are enourmous. Your position is similar to grouping a person with a cold and a person with terminal leukemia, downs syndrome, hodgkins disease, and any other catastrophic disease you'd like to list as "sick". Regard

If this is a wrong viewpoint, educate me.

jdhdiggs

unc2701 wrote:

Oh you poor thing... clearly you've had a scrape with those mean, mean ****. They say such nasty things about us white male hetro's. It really hurts.

When I was in SF, I got lost and ended up on castro street... I just barely escaped. There was a whole pack of them! I hear they tie hetero's to the bumper of their trucks and drag them down dirt roads till they're completely dismembered!

Thank you for perfectly proving my point! This kind of statement is okay, but if reversed, you'd be condemned for hate speech.

TroyD

hearingimpared wrote:

The issue still remains what the Phila school district did and the way they did it was reprehensible. I still can't get the "****" side of the argument to acknoweldge that.

What is so reprehensible? I'm sure that it was added to the schedule the same way everything else is. If you were blindsided, maybe you need to pay more attention to the local school board. So you don't agree with one part of the curriculum and you want to go scorched earth? That's just silly. You can't shield your child from everything you disagree with in life.

BDT

jdhdiggs

TroyD wrote:

You can't shield your child from everything you disagree with in life.

But if he has the choice to shield them from something, he shouldn't have the right?

TroyD

jdhdiggs wrote:

And the mentally ill have an active choice? A bi-polar or depressed person has a choice? People are born with a predisposition to be something other than what is considered "normal", whether that is sexual persuaion or something else, people are born with things that seperate them from the "normal" people. Why should we segregate a special subset of these people an not recognize the others as well? Why can't we just teach tolerance across the board? Why do we have to do this segregation BS to teach tolerance?

Is being **** an illness? Well, it does occur in nature in other animals (so not a choice). But it also prevents the propagation of the species for that subset and has been found that most **** have abnormal growth patterns in the brain. That does sound like an illness to me. Does it make them less human? No, absolutely not. No more than having cancer or asthma makes you less human.

Darla: Depending on which stats you use, it does make you different from 90-99% of the "normal" population. If by saying you, and the rest of the groups I listed aren't in the "norm", than you are right. But the differences in the "outside norm" are enourmous. Your position is similar to grouping a person with a cold and a person with terminal leukemia, downs syndrome, hodgkins disease, and any other catastrophic disease you'd like to list as "sick". Regard

If this is a wrong viewpoint, educate me.

What I am saying, James, is that by tagging homosexuality as an illness is to attach a stigma that is incorrect and unfair.

Normal? When you find a homogeneous majority, please, give me a call.

BDT

TroyD

jdhdiggs wrote:

But if he has the choice to shield them from something, he shouldn't have the right?

Sure, he has the right to not send his child to school and I fully support that. He does not, however, have the right to dictate to the school how and what they do.

The local school board is an elected body, unfortunately, parents aren't involved in the process for whatever reason. Again, these things don't occur in a vacuum.

But, what I do maintain is that to insulate your child in that way is to perpetuate the treatment of that segment of society as social pariahs. I don't agree with that. It only serves to perpetuate the perception as **** people as being less than human.

BDT

danger boy

wingnut4772 wrote:

Ok. You got me. I am a mentally ill, child molesting polygamist serial killer.

you forgot cannibal too.

Skynut

danger boy wrote:

Like i said in the Oh the Joys thead.. i think grade school is to young to be getting children involved in sex ed or **** history month. _____ history month is fine.. as long as it doenst pertain to any kind of sexual topic.

Now I think high school is a different story. I think HS students are mature enough to handle a topic of **** history.. yeah some will laugh it off. and others will scoff and snicker at it.. but there may be that one student who it hits home for.

that one student needs this kind of support. So if you ask me.. high school is the appropriate age.. not grade school. I think your school district had good intentions.. i just don't think they thought this thru all the way.

So we need to expose everyone to something that the majority feel is inappropriate so that one child can feel special?
I have a problem with this.
Many people feel uncomfortable discussing the issue and these people will all be forced to do something they do not want to do so the one child can feel accepted.

I for one would do not want the school to choose when I discuss the mechanics of the issue with my child.
Any normal child will want to know why two men or two women want to be together and how that could work. I don't want to explain it to my kid till I feel he/she is ready.
I don't want them to blind-side me because there is a large banner in the dining hall.

The school needs to teach my kids the three R's and leave social topics like this to me.

jdhdiggs

What do you tag it as then? What's the cause?

What's your phone nuumber? As long as you don't consider hair/eye/skin color illnesses then there is a homogenous majority. It's called most of the human race.

danger boy

Ok. everyone continue the discussion without me. i'm leaving town to chill for a couple days.

Peace

Skynut

danger boy wrote:

Whoa! **** and lesbians have been around all throughout history.. from the beginning of time. I could make a joke here.. but i won't.

So what contributions have they made.
Since the beginning of time means they have had plenty of time to get their contributions recognized.
What are they?

jdhdiggs

DB: Have a good one! Oh, and don't eat any babies!

jdhdiggs

Skynut wrote:

So what contributions have they made.
Since the beginning of time means they have had plenty of time to get their contributions recognized.
What are they?

That shouldn't be listed. I mean, if someone said "Einstein was ****", what does that have anything to do with what he accomplished? I hate that labelling crap.

TroyD

Skynut wrote:

So we need to expose everyone to something that the majority feel is inappropriate so that one child can feel special?
I have a problem with this.
Many people feel uncomfortable discussing the issue and these people will all be forced to do something they do not want to do so the one child can feel accepted.

I for one would do not want the school to choose when I discuss the mechanics of the issue with my child.
Any normal child will want to know why two men or two women want to be together and how that could work. I don't want to explain it to my kid till I feel he/she is ready.
I don't want them to blind-side me because there is a large banner in the dining hall.

The school needs to teach my kids the three R's and leave social topics like this to me.

The problem is people DON'T discuss it. That's why most of the myths and misperceptions exist. Maybe if we DID, earlier in life, we wouldn't be arguing like children here. I just don't see why the fear of homosexuality. Afraid that they will be recruiting your child?? That's just idiotic.

Mechanics? Maybe sex ed has changed but I didn't learn about doggy-style or reverse cowgirl until much later in life.

When you feel your child is ready? By then he/she will already have alot of misinformation.

The schools have been out of the three R business for decades. That's a fact.

BDT

PhantomOG

PhantomOG wrote:

the same rights and privledges? Up until somewhat recently, schools were an academic setting where academic learning took place. Sure, there were rules, much like laws for adults, to keep things in order and to make sure no on was impeding the learning of others. Morals, beliefs, "social intelligence", was something learned at home, from parents and the surrounding community.

Please, please, please just answer me this one question. You say you only want the same rights and privledges, and will stand up against (and rightly so) those who want to take your rights with respect to marriage, but how can you not see your hypocrisy when you are completely ok with the school district taking away rights from parents who want to handle this issue at home, under their direct supervision, when they think their children are ready??

You can take this issue and replace it with any other number of subjects. This isn't about homosexuality. This is about the rights of parents to raise their children as they see fit. You have no problem taking this right from others, all the while complaining about your own persecution and loss of rights. Do you really not see this???

still waiting on answer to this question... anyone who thinks it is appropriate can feel free to educate me, not just Brett

hearingimpared

Since everyone here wants to talk about the mentally ill I guess you need to hear from someone who is mentally ill. I have been diagnosed with panic disorder with bi-polar symptoms and deemed unfit to work a 40 hour week. My wife is diagnosed with major depression. I worked hard from the time I was 14 years old until I was 47 and made quite a lot of money. I had to wait 3 1/2 years for our social security system to make a decision that I could get on disability. I had a no choice but go through my entire life savings while trying to keep up the nice life style I had built up for myself and family while waiting for the decision (which I was told would only take a few months). After the 3rd year I found myself very very low on funds and had sold the house and a whole lot of other things to keep our heads above water. To make a long story short I received a favorable decision but not before going through all my savings, my pensions, and 401ks. Now I have to live with the stigma of being mentally ill, on disability and viewed as a lazy **** because I can't work.

Now I ask you Brett and all you other **** fellows and supporters out there do you think I was mistreated and caused to become destitute because I have a mental illness? Are the mentally ill held to a different standard than "normal" or even **** folks?

The thing is, is that I have accepted what I am and how I am now viewed because of it. I've accepted that in this greatest nation on God's green earth that if you become disabled you better be prepared financially (which I thought I was) for a long wait to get back what you put into the system or else you are going to have to go on welfare to survive which I can tell you is below survival.

Dispite all that, I demand the right to be able to teach my son morals and present to him what my wife and I feel are the proper views on homosexuality and not have to have an entity underhandedly force the issue by shoving it down my 9 year old's throat therefore forcing me to spend a lot of time explaining instead of doing homework with him which alreadys take four hours a night.

Rant complete!

PhantomOG

TroyD wrote:

T

When you feel your child is ready? By then he/she will already have alot of misinformation.
BDT

again... whew!! I'm so glad there are people out there that are so much smarter than everyone else and are willing to trample on their rights "for their own good".

hearingimpared

TroyD wrote:

What is so reprehensible? I'm sure that it was added to the schedule the same way everything else is. If you were blindsided, maybe you need to pay more attention to the local school board. So you don't agree with one part of the curriculum and you want to go scorched earth? That's just silly. You can't shield your child from everything you disagree with in life.

BDT

Troy obviouly you haven't read all I've written in this thread. I'm not repeating it again. You would not have asked the questions above or made the statements either if you did read it.

jdhdiggs

hearingimpared wrote:

Since everyone here wants to talk about the mentally ill I guess you need to hear from someone who is mentally ill. I have been diagnosed with panic disorder with bi-polar symptoms and deemed unfit to work a 40 hour week. My wife is diagnosed with major depression. I worked hard from the time I was 14 years old until I was 47 and made quite a lot of money. I had to wait 3 1/2 years for our social security system to make a decision that I could get on disability. I had a no choice but go through my entire life savings while trying to keep up the nice life style I had built up for myself and family while waiting for the decision (which I was told would only take a few months). After the 3rd year I found myself very very low on funds and had sold the house and a whole lot of other things to keep our heads above water. To make a long story short I received a favorable decision but not before going through all my savings, my pensions, and 401ks. Now I have to live with the stigma of being mentally ill, on disability and viewed as a lazy **** because I can't work.

Now I ask you Brett and all you other **** fellows and supporters out there do you think I was mistreated and caused to become destitute because I have a mental illness? Are the mentally ill held to a different standard than "normal" or even **** folks?

The thing is, is that I have accepted what I am and how I am now viewed because of it. I've accepted that in this greatest nation on God's green earth that if you become disabled you better be prepared financially (which I thought I was) for a long wait to get back what you put into the system or else you are going to have to go on welfare to survive which I can tell you is below survival.

Dispite all that, I demand the right to be able to teach my son morals and present to him what my wife and I feel are the proper views on homosexuality and not have to have an entity underhandedly force the issue by shoving it down my 9 year old's throat therefore forcing me to spend a lot of time explaining instead of doing homework with him which alreadys take four hours a night.

Rant complete!

Bravo HI!

So should we look down on him because of this? After all, Darla and DB have insisted that they are insulted to be lumped in with the mentally ill. Tory's stated that there's a social stigma attached to it that shouldn't be applied to others because its too negative. How is this not predjudice and intolerance? What choice did/does he have in the matter? Do you think he's not teased and mocked? Why doesn't he get special education programs in school to teach people about his issues?

I lived with a bi-polar/manic depressive in college for four years so I do have some knowledge of the issues that face people like this. He was constantly mocked for his lack of social skills to the point that he almost considered suicide and the school was going to boot him out. Fortunately, he turned it around a bit and as long as you knew him, the social interaction thing made more sense and stopped bugging you. but I'll bet he is ridiculed as much as virtually any **** person is (I had a **** friend at the time as well). He can't fully hide what he is from others unlike **** so he is under constant attack. Should he be looked down on? Is he lesser than a healthy person?



If we teach an morality at school, it shouldn't be directed at any one group. We should just teach the kids that people are different and everyone should be respected for who they are.

ohskigod

This will stop being an issue when we learn to care about things less. EVERYONE gets ridiculed in public, its not just isolated to racial and sexually oriented minorities. If some one busts your balls, but them back. plain and simple. I'm not gonna **** about being ridiculed for.....say.....being fat and Italian. Everyone pushes sensitivity trainint, I think we need the exact opposite of it. we need "I dont give a flying F### what people think of me" training.

Its when a prejudice makes them genuinly do something wrong to you, like beat the crap out of you, key your car, kill you. That kind of mailce is bad despite the reason. Thats the stuff that should be combatted. I shouldnt be labelled as an evil man for cracking a racial and/or **** joke. People get villified for the dumbest reasons and THAT does nothing but generate hatred. plain and simple.

collectivly, we ALL need to care less. In this case, that would be for the **** community and the religious loons that so get verklempt that ****'s exist. I just tell them to blame God, since he created them.

wingnut4772

"I dont give a flying F### what people think of me" training.

Where do I sign up?:D

hearingimpared

wingnut4772 wrote:

I am actually a God fearing , Republican woman. ( although with Bush that may change- the Republican part:p ).

I am too except that I am a man. . . I crossed party lines and voted against Bush twice but I have changed my mind on him.