CD Player vs. CD Transport

hearingimpared

I have two holes in my system that need to be filled. One is a new cartridge on my TT. The Talisman Alchemist I have is toast and can't be used without literally damaging lps. The other (this is what this thread is about) is a CD Player or CD Transport. I have a Timbre DAC. I had made up my mind that I was going to purchase a Music Hall CD 25.2 cd player. While doing research on the best price, I came across a site that had done a review on modifications done to the 25.2 by Underwood HI-Fi. I was convinced to spend the extra $190 on the modified 25.2. I contacted Underwood and Walt (very nice guy) informed that what I needed was not a cd player but a cd transport due to the fact that I have a very good DAC. Unfortunately the modified Music Hall CD 25.2 transport is $1100 plus $75 shipping plus $60 minimum for a new power cord. I definitely don't want to spend that much. I was wondering if any of you folks could steer me in the right direction towards a cd transport that would be in the $500 area.

Thanks,
Joe

audiobliss

The only company that makes transports in that price range that *I* am aware of is CEC. Steveinaz owns one, and I-SIG has demoed it. They could give you some opinions on CEC if you find it sparks your interest.

steveinaz

Audiobliss, actually my CEC-3300 is a standalone player, not a transport,though I use it as a transport.

I'd recommend a Cambridge Audio 540 or 640 Azur for use as a transport (they are also standalone CDP's). Short of something used or Ebay, I don't think anyone makes a $500 dedicated transport anymore.

CEC makes the TL-51 series (belt-drive) transports, but they fetch around $1100.\ IIRC

audiobliss

Well, then feel free to completely disregard what I said.

I guess that's still a +2 for the post count, though.

steveinaz

It's crazy how transports have far less electronics, but are typically very expensive when compared to a full-blown CDP. What a racket.

audiobliss

Less is more.

hearingimpared

Well I really don't have to spend $500 on the transport. I have $500 to $800 budgeted for the CDP. If I can get what I need for less, that is just more for a new cartridge and cables.

Maybe buying a good CDP is a good idea. I love adjusting & tweaking my turntable. Maybe I can have the same fun doing CDP vs. DAC comparisons and cabling comparing on each.

venomclan

I just read a letter that was sent in to the October issue of Stereophile from the UK. This guys high end transport craps out. He does not want to be withou his system for long so he borrows his wifes no name dvd player and hooks it up to his high end dac. Playing cds using only the dvd sounded terrible. The dvd - dac, he claims it is the best sound he ever got from his system. The no name dvd bested his Regas, Arcams etc.

Makes you wonder...

ESavinon

I just got a pioneer elite pd-65 cd player virtually new form ebay for $500.
It has a stable platter mechanism and the internal dac can be switched off via front mounted button for use with an external dac.
I highly recommed this unit as a cd transport.
It's a mighty good sounding cd player on its own too.

hearingimpared

ESAVINON wrote:

I just got a pioneer elite pd-65 cd player virtually new form ebay for $500.
It has a stable platter mechanism and the internal dac can be switched off via front mounted button for use with an external dac.
I highly recommed this unit as a cd transport.
It's a mighty good sounding cd player on its own too.

Thanks for the info!!!

danger boy

I don't have any problem using a CD player as just a transport.... why wouldn't a person do that? I don't know of any strickly just transports... except for the California Audio Labs Delta transport.. no internal DAC's in that unit. but since it's an older/out of production transport.. it prob doesn't play burned CD's.

hearingimpared

ESAVINON wrote:

I just got a pioneer elite pd-65 cd player virtually new form ebay for $500.
It has a stable platter mechanism and the internal dac can be switched off via front mounted button for use with an external dac.
I highly recommed this unit as a cd transport.
It's a mighty good sounding cd player on its own too.

There are three more up for bid on eBay. This unit can be as old as 14 years can the transport still be that stable???

univera

danger boy wrote:

I don't have any problem using a CD player as just a transport.... why wouldn't a person do that? I don't know of any strickly just transports... except for the California Audio Labs Delta transport.. no internal DAC's in that unit. but since it's an older/out of production transport.. it prob doesn't play burned CD's.

http://cgi.ebay.com/California-Audio-Labs-Delta-CD-Transport-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ280028606286QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3272QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280028606286

Seller also has 18 bit CL DAC and is selling the SRS-CRS's.

ESavinon

Mine was made in 94.
It even plays cdrs without a problem.
They also make a transport version of this unit (i believe it's the pd-95)
but i haven't found one yet.

danger boy

univera wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/California-Audio-Labs-Delta-CD-Transport-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ280028606286QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3272QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280028606286

Seller also has 18 bit CL DAC and is selling the SRS-CRS's.

these CAL transports usually go for a couple hundered $, so do the Alpha DAC's. Nice thing about their (CAL) dac's.. they are tube DAC's. change the tubes out whenever you want to change the sound.

hearingimpared

Need more suggestions please on CD Player/Transports, I blew the opportunity on eBay for the pioneer elite pd-65 cd player and cal labs transport. I was busy house hunting and placing a bid on a new home and forgot that the cal labs & pioneed elites were ending on ebay. Got out bid last night for the last pioneer elite pd-65 cd player up for bid on eBay.

Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated. Wise cracks are also welcome.

danger boy

wait a week or two.. more will come on there. patience pays off.

steveinaz

cAMBRIDGE aZUR 540

damn caps lock.

madmax

These sound awesome. I've had mine for several years. Mine has a gear problem (they break sometimes) and this one says it was just replaced. Rock solid performance but the company charges an arm and a leg if it ever needs repaired. Still, at this price it is a steal.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtltran&1164146467

madmax

hearingimpared

madmax wrote:

These sound awesome. I've had mine for several years. Mine has a gear problem (they break sometimes) and this one says it was just replaced. Rock solid performance but the company charges an arm and a leg if it ever needs repaired. Still, at this price it is a steal.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtltran&1164146467

madmax

Hey Max,

Have you used it as just a transport with an outboard DAC?

Thanks,
Joe

madmax

Yes, that is all it is. Just a transport. I use an AudioNote Dac 1.1kit with it.
madmax

hearingimpared

madmax wrote:

Yes, that is all it is. Just a transport. I use an AudioNote Dac 1.1kit with it.
madmax

Thanks!

tryrrthg

Better hurry on this one though, looks like it will go fast...

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtltran&1164502453

Others to look for PS Audo Lambda, Theta Basic, CAL Delta, McCormack SST. I have the McCormack SST and it's a real nice piece. They have been selling a bit higher than they usually do though.

hearingimpared

venomclan wrote:

I just read a letter that was sent in to the October issue of Stereophile from the UK. This guys high end transport craps out. He does not want to be withou his system for long so he borrows his wifes no name dvd player and hooks it up to his high end dac. Playing cds using only the dvd sounded terrible. The dvd - dac, he claims it is the best sound he ever got from his system. The no name dvd bested his Regas, Arcams etc.

Makes you wonder...

I sent an email to the fellow in the UK who sent the letter to the Stereophile editor. This is what I wrote him.

Hi Jerry,

My name is Joe from Philadelphia, PA USA. I just read your letter to the Stereophile Editor. I have been looking to purchase either a very good CD transport to connect to my Timbre DAC or a very good CD player that could double as a transport to my Timbre DAC. I am very much an analog guy and love my vinyl collection but as you see with my Timbre DAC purchase I am getting serious about allowing digital music to invade my home.

Your letter just completely blew me away. Are you really serious about the low end DVD transport sounding as good to you as those seriously high end named transports? Did you ever get your CD transport repaired to replace the DVD transport. I'm really interested in your findings here.

If you could write me back I would be very grateful.

--
Thanks,

Joe


This is what he wrote back.
Hi Joe

Thanks for your email. I haven't yet received the latest Stereophile - they take a while to cross the Atlantic, I think - I am in the UK. So I didn't know that my letter has been published. Did the editor make any comment?

Anyway, much time has now passed since sending the letter in. Well, a few weeks anyway. And much further listening has been done. I guess it is not unusual for initial enthusiasms to fade away under the persistent pressure of much further listening. So it was probably inevitable that my impressions of a $40 DVD player, perhaps initiated by my relief at being able to play my discs again, would fade away compared to the audiophile might of my previous experience.

Well, not so. I am still immensely impressed. My initial enthusiasm has not wavered at all. This really is the best CD transport I have ever used. I continue to be absolutely astonished and dumbfounded by this amazing sounding piece of equipment. I have no idea if other "cheap and cheerful" DVD players perform to the same level - I have not tried any. I have now played much more of my beloved music collection though - many of which I have played many times over the years and know very well indeed. I have never heard them sound better. No - that is unfair - they have never sounded so good.

FYI - I am a classical music lover, with occasional forays into Loreena McKennitt's celtic world. Oh and DVDs, of course, which the player does well enough for me - I am not a videophile, so won't pass judgement on its performance in that area. And I can't really speak for performnace parameters of interest to rock music lovers, or electronica etc etc. But for classical music, and solo female voice supported by acoustic instruments,this little wonder pretty much does it all. A little more depth would be nice, I think, but the transparency, focus and sheer presence of the performers are startling indeed.

Last weekend, I attended the London hifi shows - major events in Europe. The only system I came away thinking "gosh, I wish I had that" was an £87,000 (about $150,000) MBL system. My system, with the silly little Yamada DVD player beat all the rest. (I have Kharma Ceramique 3 speakers - very fine),

By the way, the player is a YAMADA DVD2 700. I think I was a bit coy about its designation in my letter.

Anyway, I hope all this waffle is of interest. It's certainly worth investing a few 10s of dollars in a similar cheap DVD player (or 2, or 3?) before you invest the big bucks in a "real" audiophile player!

Regards, and best wishes,

Jerry

(P.S. let me know how you get on).

And, no, I haven't bothered to get my previous player repaired.

danger boy

this has been discussed countless number of times.. someone finds a $50 DVD player and swears by their mother's good name that it sounds better than a $2000 stand alone CD player.

I've tried said DVD players and I say it's not true. YMMV

Alot of those low end DVD players may initally sound good.. but long term.. they weren't made for more than say a year or two use out of em.. before something goes whacky on em. there's a reason why they only cost $50.

If it sounds to good to be true.. it probably is!

univera

danger boy wrote:

this has been discussed countless times.

If it sounds to good to be true.. it probably is!

I don't see how this mantra applies here. One usually uses this when the person proferring the info has something to gain by spreading it. The Brit in question doesn't seem to have any agenda and even tried and expected to dissuade himself, but to no avail. He certainly seems to know good stuff and isn't trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes from what I can tell. I doubt he is a Yamada POS rep....

Let's say he is a bit over exuberant and his player is nearly 80-90% as good as a high end piece. Is it still worth it compared to shelling out big bucks? I'd think so unless you are trying to extract every last ounce out of your system and money is no object.

danger boy

I'm not saying this brit guy is full of it... and i'm not saying for you to not go buy a universal DVD player and hook it up to your system and listen to it.. seems like it would be very little out of pocket $.

All, i'm saying.. is without proof by one of us.. it's tough to know for sure it this is true or not.

Uni, i know you're a new member here.. and you've contributed and are trying to learn.. which is very cool. That's exactly what this forum is all about.

But, we've had people come in here, and claim that this player was the best thing since sliced bread... after some of us took the bait.. i know of very few people who are still claiming the same thing.

If it was a giant killer.. we'd all be jumping all over it, i would assume.

My findings were with a low end Toshiba that was all the rage here a year or two ago.. i bought one.. hooked it up to my DAC.. and thought it sounded ok. Not great though. Once i put my 10 yr old NAD player back in it's place hooked up to the DAC.. there really was no compairson at all. The NAD had better dynamics, and soundstage, and warmth to the music.

THe DVD player was close.. and certainly listenable.. but it still came in second to my 10 yr old used $40 NAD. (same DAC, high quality coax digital cable was used).

That's all i'm saying.. i'm not trying to kill your dreams here.

madmax

There is always synergy to deal with too. It is quite possible to have a $40 CD player beat out a very expensive transport if it doesn't synergize well, too much jitter, cable issues, power issues etc. Who knows, maybe even a less than factory tweaked transport or a CD player which happened to go the right way with all the parts tolerences...
madmax

heiney9

I’ve found that in the overall picture when it comes to cdp’s and dvdp’s the transport has the least effect on the final result. Much more attention should be paid to the internals in the case (no pun intended) of an all in one unit. I am a very firm believer in outboard Dac’s providing better more accurate reproduction in most instances, and the connection between the transport (stand alone or cdp) should be given top priority. Now once you’ve found a top notch connection and top notch DAC and have the downstream components to make a difference then you should start looking at trying to find an improvement in the transport.

I’ve a stand alone cdp and a very cheaply constructed dvdp hooked thru the exact same DAC and I have never heard a difference in either transport. For my computer rig I use a computer grade dvd rom player and it works flawlessly. I’m in no way saying that a properly tweaked high end transport won’t make a difference, but the rest of the puzzle has to be in place to take advantage of it.

I’m commenting based on using an external DAC in both the computer and main rig. There are HUGE differences in all in one cdp’s and dvdp’s as the internal design varies greatly. So don’t take this out of context and think the el cheapo dvdp sounds as good as the stand alone cdp, it only does because it routed thru a top notch outboard dac.

YMMV

H9