Universal player upgrade--Denon 2900?

cstpeter

Hello all. Sorry to flood you with information and questions, but here I go:

I'm currently considering a source upgrade. I currently use the digital out of my Pioneer DV-563A into a Denon 3806. I'm looking to upgrade my music performance for red book CD and SACD. While it would be nice to get a dedicated CD/SACD player, I need to keep the DVD player in the picture, so I'm thinking a universal player upgrade.

I've seen used Denon 2900's for about $400. First, do you think I would see an improvement using the DAC's of this unit as opposed to the Denon 3806? Second, what about an SACD improvement over the Pioneer DV-563A?

I recently purchased the Musical Fidelity X-10v3 buffer stage and X-PSU power supply (between Denon pre/pro and Rotel amp). I like the improvement, but can't help but thinking a source upgrade would provide a bigger improvement (if I upgraded the source, I would return the Musical Fidelity stuff).

Any thoughts? Thanks for your time and knowledge.

izafar

Denon 2900 would be a huge difference over Pioneer on all fronts (CD,DVD Audio/Video, SACD). The DACs in 2900 are also much better then your AVR. You have an impressive system, just upgrade your source and you will be very happy.

Shizelbs

Oh snap. I just looked at your complete setup. Get that POS source out of your system.

Mike Reeter

izafar wrote:

Denon 2900 would be a huge difference over Pioneer on all fronts (CD,DVD Audio/Video, SACD). The DACs in 2900 are also much better then your AVR. You have an impressive system, just upgrade your source and you will be very happy.

The Denon 2900 at $400. is a steal...It does everything well and is built like a tank...you will be very happy with one,I'm sure

billbillw

Actually, I'd say the DACs in the 3806 are much better than what is in the 2900.

For SACD, the 2900 WILL be significanly better than the Pioneer player, but I believe that you would get your best sound by shooting for something like the DVD-2930CI, which is the lowest price player that utilizes the "denon link" connection. If that's too much, get the 2900, but use a digital coax for watching movies and also for listening to regular CDs. The AL24 processing makes mincemeat out of the analog output of the 2900. I know because I've compared between them on my 4802 w/ my 2900. The 2900 does have very nice video output too, it would put the pioneer to shame as well.

I-SIG

billbillw wrote:

Actually, I'd say the DACs in the 3806 are much better than what is in the 2900.

For SACD, the 2900 WILL be significanly better than the Pioneer player, but I believe that you would get your best sound by shooting for something like the DVD-2930CI, which is the lowest price player that utilizes the "denon link" connection. If that's too much, get the 2900, but use a digital coax for watching movies and also for listening to regular CDs. The AL24 processing makes mincemeat out of the analog output of the 2900. I know because I've compared between them on my 4802 w/ my 2900. The 2900 does have very nice video output too, it would put the pioneer to shame as well.

Bill,

Since I have a nice redbook player and DAC and I'm looking mainly for video performance and maybe SACD. Would you rather have the 2900 or the 2930? I have a Panny plasma FWIW, so I'm not worried about macroblocking with these two, just if the 2930 is worth buying on the net for about $250 more than the 2900 is used.

Thanks,
Wes

billbillw

I-SIG wrote:

Bill,

Since I have a nice redbook player and DAC and I'm looking mainly for video performance and maybe SACD. Would you rather have the 2900 or the 2930? I have a Panny plasma FWIW, so I'm not worried about macroblocking with these two, just if the 2930 is worth buying on the net for about $250 more than the 2900 is used.

Thanks,
Wes

Wes,
I haven't really had a chance to read much about the video performance of the newer player (2930). I can say that my 2900 has very good video output and it is lightning fast in menus/navigating. Back when I got it, it was among the best players. Truthfully, I quit reading about DVD players after I picked my 2900. I've been happy with it. It has been almost 2 years, so I don't know if the newer models are really much better or not. You could probably do a quick check over at the DVD Benchmark site and see whats up.

I-SIG

billbillw wrote:

Wes,
I haven't really had a chance to read much about the video performance of the newer player (2930). I can say that my 2900 has very good video output and it is lightning fast in menus/navigating. Back when I got it, it was among the best players. Truthfully, I quit reading about DVD players after I picked my 2900. I've been happy with it. It has been almost 2 years, so I don't know if the newer models are really much better or not. You could probably do a quick check over at the DVD Benchmark site and see whats up.

Bill,

Thanks. I guess I misinterpretted your previous post. I thought you had A/B'ed the two units.

I haven't seen any tests of the x930 series yet on Benchmark, just talk on AVS forum.

Wes

cstpeter

Thanks for your input. I have ordered the Denon 2900 and am eager to get it into my system. I'll post my impressions when I give it a good listen.

billbillW, I am suprised that you say the AL24 processing in the 3806 will make "mincemeat" out of the analog outs of the 2900. To my ears, the AL24 processing isn't significantly better than the analog out of the Pioneer player--it's better, no doubt, but hardly makes mincemeat out of it. This is not meant to disrepect your comments, especially since you A/B'ed it already. I'm just curious if to find out for myself (because I already made the purchase, I hope I get different results! ).

Thanks again.

reeltrouble1

Good Choice you are going to be a happy fellow. I have had that player and really liked it before passing it on to another member who is now a happy fellow. Me, sometimes I am not so happy I sold it!!! Its a great uni player. You have to get to the Pioneer Elite dvd line for a more comparable Pioneer unit to the Denon.

RT1

cstpeter

Got the Denon 2900 last night. The thing is impressively built and looks great in the rack.

So far I'm very impressed. HUGE improvement in SACD and video; I also find it to be a big improvement in RBCD (as opposed to the DAC's in the Denon 3806).

All around, a great upgrade. Now I have to get some nice interconnects.

Thanks for your help.

billbillw

cstpeter wrote:

Got the Denon 2900 last night. The thing is impressively built and looks great in the rack.

So far I'm very impressed. HUGE improvement in SACD and video; I also find it to be a big improvement in RBCD (as opposed to the DAC's in the Denon 3806).

All around, a great upgrade. Now I have to get some nice interconnects.

Thanks for your help.

Really? You like the analog output on the 2900 for redbook over the DACs in the 3806? Are you using a digital coax and listening with both in pure direct mode? I'd have thought the differential mode (4-DACs for stereo) Burr Brown PCM-1791 offered in the newer Denon receivers would sound better. Admittedly, I'm using a 4802 which uses older Analog Devices AD1854, which are 96kHz Multibit Sigma-Delta DACs. Hard to believe the newer Burr Browns which are 192kHz, wouldn't sound better yet. On my setup, I notice a very nice improvement in sound using the receiver's internal DACs and the AL24 processing. I guess that just shows you, specs don't always predict what you will hear.

cstpeter

billbillw,

Sorry, I should clarify: I haven't yet done an A/B comparison between the Denon 2900 and the 3806. My comment was based upon using the DAC's in the 3806 when I had the old Pioneer player, versus using the 2900's DAC's--I think the latter is better. However, the 3806's DAC's may be better when I use the 2900 as a transport. Does this make sense?

Anyway, I'll do some A/B testing this weekend (switching from analog out to digital out on the Denon 2900). By the way, do you know if I can lower db on the digital out so I don't have to do it manually?

reeltrouble1

Glad you like the Denon, now if you could just get a tubed pre in the mix with an HT bypass around the 3806, man now that would be something. I dont recall anyway to manipulate the digital output on the 2900. You may be able to do something on the 3806 but if so it means more limiting/processing of the signal.

RT1

cstpeter

reeltrouble, I like you suggestion. Right now I am using the Musical Fidelity X-10v3 and PSU tube buffer stage/power supply in between my Denon and Rotel. I like it a lot, but a true tube pre would be sweeter, I'm sure.

Damn this hobby!

reeltrouble1

Warning--following my advice can lead to spousal/gf problems!!!

I am a fan of MF gear, a company still dedicated to sound where the bean counters dont always get their way over the engineers, I love my MF player and your gear has gotten some great reviews, I have not owned those pieces. Your receiver is limiting and altering your signal in all sorts of ways no matter what mode.

RT1