External amp question

yenoorekim

Hi, all. I've decided on either a 7 channel Rotel or Bryston amp to help out my H/K AVR-450. As opposed to powering my speakers with just the amp, I want to biamp, using the AVR to power the high/mids.

I use the LARGE speaker size setting to power the speakers (RTi-12 mains, RTi-8 surround side, and RTi-10 surround rear, CSi-5 center) while the jumpers are in place.

I have biamped with 2 receivers by splitting the coax signal, and discovered that the SMALL size setting is best for the receiver handling the high/mid ranges.

Here is my question: If I use the external amp for the low range, and the receiver for the high/mid, will the receiver's SMALL setting also affect the signal going to the external amp, or is the signal to the pre-outs not affected by the speaker size selection?

In short: SMALL setting on AVR = SMALL signal to amp??

Thanks in advance to anyone who can give me some info here.

Mike.

Sherardp

If you dont have a sub, set your fronts to large so they will handle the bass, when set to small it gives you the option to send everything at a certain range to the LFE channel, for example most people will set theres to 60-80 hz, anything lower than that the sub will handle. But to answer your question with the best of my knowledge the settings in the avr will affect whats being sent to the amp. That amp will definitely open things up more when you biamp though.

Dennis Gardner

Nothing to be gained by bi-amping with a lesser quality receiver amp in my opinion. I agree with Sherardp and think the crossover setting will affect both speaker and preamp outputs. It basically cuts off the bottom frequencies.

yenoorekim

Thanks, guys...

Yeah I have 2 PSW-10 subs, but I really don't need them. The RTi-12s and RTi-10s put out alot of bass. I think I may be better off using the AVR (as great as it is) as a preamp, and use just the Rotel/Bryston to power the speakers on large settings. I'd prefer to use both, but if the size settings are going to affect the external amp, I won't bother. I could try biamping but leaving the settings to large, but I think there will be too much movement in the mid ranges for my liking. They only seem comfortable on large settings when the 6 woofers are there to suck up some of the current. We'll see. :P

jayman_1975

I just finished experimenting with bi-amping vs one amp. I found the external amp alone sounded much better powering the lows and highs than bi-amping and letting the reciever power the highs. Bi-amping with a reciever and external amp may work better if both are of the same brand i would think.

Dennis Gardner

jayman_1975 wrote:

I just finished experimenting with bi-amping vs one amp. I found the external amp alone sounded much better powering the lows and highs than bi-amping and letting the reciever power the highs. Bi-amping with a reciever and external amp may work better if both are of the same brand i would think.

Most have found the same to be true.

I do however like biamping some of Polks models with an SET or PP tube amp uptop and a solid state amp powering the bottom.

yenoorekim

Yeah, thanks guys. I think I'm going to go with two 3 channel brystons @ 300wpc, and run the center shannel from the AVR. There will be no need to biamp at all then... I suppose I could still biamp the mains for 400w, as they will handle up to 500. At least the option will still be there. Now all I have to do is save up some more $$ to get the Brystons instead of the rotel.

Sherardp

why not biamp the center, if anything I would biamp the front soundstage and run a set of rears off the avr.

yenoorekim

My center channel isn't biampable, and the ideal amps for me are the two 3 channel amps, for a total of only 6 channels instead of 7 anyway. I could go for a 5 or 7 channel amp, but the $$ -to-Watt ratio is really better with the 3 channel ones.

By getting two 3 channel amps, I want to run all 6 speakers, minus the center channel from them. Yeah, I still may biamp the mains, but I'd definitely rather run the surrounds with the 300w amps, rather than the AVR. For surround speakers, I'm really using speakers more suited for mains and need to get more power to them. They were originally my mains, but after getting the beefy RTi-12s, the RTi-10s went to the surround back channels. The easiest way to solve this would be to sell them, and replace them with bookshelf speakers, but money is no object when it comes to my stereo

I am definitely a biamping fan, having run my old setup with the coax signal split into 2 identical receivers. Worked great! This is my first time delving into the external amp realm, though.

Sherardp

I would opt for the 7 channel in case you will upgrade to a 7 channel setup in the future.

yenoorekim

Hehe, I already have a 7 channel setup, but my center channel isn't biampable. I could always get a mono amp for that channel anyway, if I get a biampable one such as the CSi-5. I don't know how much I'd gain from biamping the center though. There would already be alot of current going to it from the AVR. At least, with the CSi-3, there is plenty. There is plenty all around, really... But I want the extra wattage to have some breathing room and take some load off the receiver.

Well, here's my main reason: In 7 channel stereo mode, with all speakers putting out an identical stereo signal, alot of the power usually reserved for the mains gets sent to the remaining speakers, and the bass drops out quite a bit. In true stereo it's amazing. I know if I get more power to all the speakers, it'll sound awesome. It's fine in surround modes, where only subtle surround info is sent to the sides and rears, but 7 channel stereo would be my choice for music for sure, so I need the extra kick to get full sound from all angles.

Dennis Gardner

Your problem is your preference for 7 channel stereo............with proper amplification, 2 channel soundstaging should kick the **** out of your 7 channel stereo mode. Your gear hasn't reached a high enough level of resolution to see this yet, but Rotel and Bryston are a step in the right direction.

If you really want great music, multichannel or stereo, your AVR and your current speakers are holding you back. Just my .02.............

reeltrouble1

Yen,

Dennis is giving it to you straight.

RT1

cfrizz

Hi Mike, You have great speakers, they simply need more amplification. Buy a 7 channel 200 or more wpc amp and enjoy.

I wouldn't be bothered biamping just adds to the clutter of wires.

I also sometimes like listening to 7 channel stereo music! Might as well put all those speakers to use as much as you can!:D

I believe the reason for the small setting is to let a subwoofer handle the majority of the bass since that is what it is designed to do! Therefore it allows all of your other speakers to focus on everything else.

Sami

I would ditch the surround stereo music but that's me (and many others). Those speakers aren't that great for music, more for HT and with towers as your surrounds you aren't getting optimal HT experience either (unless you have the towers on stands...). Get the 3 channel Bryston and run your front 3 with it, sell the 8's and 10's and replace them with 4's or 6's and get a decent subwoofer that will run HT duty better than the 12's alone.

If music is more important than HT then sell the whole RTi lineup and move into something better as money was not an object. Wait, since money is not an object then sell the RTi's, you can get better speakers for both HT and music.

unc2701

Yeah, I usually feel like the brystons are even overkill on my LSi's. I only have them because I could get them at dealer cost.

If nothing else, paying for 300 watts of bryston is totally unneeded for surround channels- Instead of the two 6b's, I'd go with a 4b (for the fronts) and a 9b (for the rest). You'll save about $1000 and get one more channel.

yenoorekim

Sami, do you mean the speaker setup isn't great for music, or the speakers them selves? I find them awesome for music. They aren't cheesy little home theatre speakers from a boxed kit.

I generally use stereo mode for music, and I agree- it sounds the best. I just want more power for my speakers, be it for movies or music.

My question should have been this to avoid all this stuff: What's the best way to improve my system's power to all channels?

Sami

yenoorekim wrote:

Sami, do you mean the speaker setup isn't great for music, or the speakers them selves? I find them awesome for music. They aren't cheesy little home theatre speakers from a boxed kit.

The RTi's aren't that great for music. Since you are listening to music in stereo then adding 3 channel Bryston to your front 3 channels is the best option hands down. You benefit more from upgrading the amp on your centre than your surrounds.

unc2701

My point was that you'll have $1600MSRP speakers powered by a $5500 Amplifier. While Bryston is probably a little cheaper for you in Canada, that's kind of a big mismatch... Now, don't get me wrong- it'll kick **** until you upgrade your speakers, and then it'll REALLY kick ****, but in the meantime you could probably get more bang for you money investing elsewhere in your system.

Sherardp

Dennis Gardner wrote:

Your problem is your preference for 7 channel stereo............with proper amplification, 2 channel soundstaging should kick the **** out of your 7 channel stereo mode. Your gear hasn't reached a high enough level of resolution to see this yet, but Rotel and Bryston are a step in the right direction.

If you really want great music, multichannel or stereo, your AVR and your current speakers are holding you back. Just my .02.............

not sure why you would say this, the rti 12 and 10s are great for music as well

Sami

Sherardp wrote:

not sure why you would say this, the rti 12 and 10s are great for music as well

They are ok.

cfrizz

Mike it is obvious that you like your speakers!:) So I will reiterate, buy yourself a 7 channel 200 or more wpc amplifier & enjoy! There is NO SUCH THING as over kill for power for ANY kind of speaker!

It is just some people's opinion that your amplifier out classes the rest of your equipment & speakers. But if you want it, can afford it & in the end it sounds good to you, GO FOR IT!!!:)

Then again that is just MY opinion!:p

yenoorekim wrote:

Sami, do you mean the speaker setup isn't great for music, or the speakers them selves? I find them awesome for music. They aren't cheesy little home theatre speakers from a boxed kit.

I generally use stereo mode for music, and I agree- it sounds the best. I just want more power for my speakers, be it for movies or music.

My question should have been this to avoid all this stuff: What's the best way to improve my system's power to all channels?