Finishing my system...is it possible?

audiobliss

I'm really tired of running Boston Acoustic mids full range off my HU. I want a system. I need a system.

What I've been planning for my CA system is pretty grand, I must admit. Nothing on the level of what Cody has, but certainly not skimping. I was planning on a Memphis 16-MCA3004 to biamp my components and then something making about 350watts my Memphis for a sub. I was also planning on a MM2104 installed in a DIY enclosure in the side of the back of my Cherokee, which would be perfect for practicality AND performance.

Now, all that's changed. I just can't afford what I 'want'; I just want to get what I 'need'. So, here's what the audio store suggested.

Alpine V-Power series amps. Of course I winced at the mention of that, 'cause I want better! Not ragging on the amps, they're certainly solid and dependable. But I've reconciled myself with the fact that I'm going to HAVE to get less than what I want. So, anyhoo...

Alpine MRP-F250 for components, MRP-M450 for sub for $200 each. However, they pretty strongly recommend going with the MRP-F450 and MRP-M650 for $300 each, since they're more powerful, for not THAT much more dough.

But today when I went in, we came up with a different amp combo that would be as good/better, for less money. At least I hope. Here it is...

I asked him about how Alpine and Memphis compare, and he suggested that maybe I go with Memphis' 16-MCA2004. He said that though it's rated at 50x4 as opposed to the MRP-F450's 70x4, it's rated at a lower THD, so it's probably closer to the Alpine's output. Plus, the real reason is that the Memphis will fit under the driver's seat, leaving room for the sub amp to go under the back seat.

Then for the sub amp he recommended :eek: a JL e2150 (they've now gone to a2150, I believe...I'd be getting the new one from him, I think) for about $220. He said it'll bridge to close to 200watts into 4ohms.

Now, for the sub. They have a room of used gear, and he has a JL 10W0 (or maybe one of the early w1's when they were black) in a carpeted box for $100. That's what I'm banking on for the low end.

That adds up to $590 for both amps and the sub/enclosure. They no longer do installations themselves, but a former employee has set up shop right down the road (within a rock's throw), and they send their customers to him. So, I went down there to get an estimate. They also do a lot of detailing, and the audio guy was out to lunch, but the guy at the desk called him and got an estimate over the phone. For installing both amps and 'fabricating' a way to mount my tweeters and all the material he made a 'wild guesstimate' as he called it of $220. How does that sound? Too much? He did say it was a 'wild guesstimate' and that it may end up being less depending on how much wire was needed and so forth.

Man, that's $810, and it's not even the system I *want*!! What do you guys think?

MacLeod

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the V Power amps especially since theyve been redesigned.

They exceed their rated power cleanly, have a superb build quality and have a few nifty features and cost about half of a comparable RF or the likes.

Nothing really wrong with Memphis but Ive never really liked them. Still, there are a LOT of SPL guys that run Memphis amps and subs and do well with them so...

$220 does seem a little steep for mounting 2 amps.

Dude, if you have any higher brain functions at all, you can install the amps yourself. Hell, we could talk you thru it without much problem on here!

As for amps, if you need budget amps, you should really check out Profile. You cannot beat them in their price point. Crutchfield.com has em and theyd cost half what youd pay for Memphis or Alpine.

exalted512

He cant order online...

Anyway, whatever you do, stay away from kenwood amps. That being said, the alpine amp and the sub/box sounds like a good deal. Even if it is JL:D

I guess youre planning on bi-amping your components?? Thats the only reason why I'd see you getting a 4-channel...
-Cody

audiobliss

Yeah, I'm biamping my components.

Do y'all think I'd be better off with the Memphis 50x4 or the Alpine 70x4? I'm personally leaning toward the Memphis, because I have no idea where the Alpine would fit.

Do you think the JL e/a2150 would be a good 'fit' for the sub, too?

I'm thinking about installing the amps myself. I mean, if I get a free weekend, I'm fairly confident that I'd be able to. I just know when I'd get a free weekend.

Could someone briefly walk me through what I'd need to do to install them myself? Or dont' even waste time with that, just direct me to a link that would kinda walk me through it. I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

jroberts_101

this is just me but if u say stuff like, 810 and its not even what i want! then why the heck are u even thinkin about it. id say wait for a little bit and just man up and spend more on the good ****. when i was 16 years old i did that, im sure you can do it too. i saved up like 2000 so i could buy like 1200 worth of polk momo **** and also be able to have extra for everything else i knew would come with the system/install. so thats my opinion take it if you want or not. hope this helps.

John

audiobliss

Well, the thing is, I actually have $2,000. It's just that my parents view it as being ridiculous that I'd consider spending $800 on it, not to mention any more! It's not that I don't have it...but that I'm waaay irresponsible for not saving it.

PolkThug

AB, I'll ship you 2 12" Infinity Kappas with a Kenwood 7201 (460x1 @ 4ohm) for $200.

audiobliss

Thanks for the offer, PT; that's very generous and I appreciate!!

I've been talking to Cody on AIM...I think I've decided to get the Memphis 16-MCA3004 (75x4...$380) now, install it myself *crosses fingers*, and wait a little while on the sub and sub amp.

audiobliss

Well, I just walked in the house with all my new equipment. I'm still trying to find a good place to run the power wire through the firewall...

EDIT - Hey, Greg! I just remembered you have a CHerokee!!! :D:D:D Where did you run the power wire through the firewall?

Thanks!

Greg Peters

audiobliss wrote:

EDIT - Hey, Greg! I just remembered you have a CHerokee!!! :D:D:D Where did you run the power wire through the firewall?

Thanks!

My Jeep is a couple of years different than yours- the 97-01 body style- but with that said, I found a big round rubber plug in my firewall on the same side as the battery (passenger side).

I ran 4 gauge all the way back, so I cut an X in the rubber plug in the firewall, pushed and pulled that 4 gauge through down into the kick panel area, then ran it back under the carpet (next to the sill plate) to a distribution block under the back seat.

On your Jeep you could do the same, but may want to run your power wire to a distribution block under the front seat and split it from there.

For my RCAs, remote trigger and speaker wire, I ran all that from the dash down into the driver's side kick, then under the carpet along the sill plate to my amps in the rear (except the speaker wire is running from my rear mounted 4 channel through same location up to the kicks before going into each door to my components, opposite direction). Take some time and you can fish all your wiring through the obstacles that are there and it'll all fit in the same space so the kick panels will go back on where they belong.

Even with 4 gauge on one side, 6 RCAs and two runs of 14 guage speaker wire on the other, it doesn't show under the carpet. Just tie off your wires at regular intervals and keep it tight to the edge where the floorpan meets the sill and everything should go back together without looking any different than stock.

I gutted my interior- it was alot easier to run everything with the seats and sills out, because you can get the carpet up pretty easy while you run your wire. 4 bolts each seat, one electrical connector on the driver's side and they're outta there. Get a T-15 Torx bit for your ratchet to remove the seatbelt mounts that run through the carpet at the sills.

I took a couple of afternoons to do this due to time constraints, but an audio shop would do it alot quicker. They'd probably pull all the wire together through one location though, rather than power down one side and interconnects down the other.

They'd probably charge less if you just had them run the wiring (letting you install everything else yourself). I've gone this route when doing a system for friends when I only have a few spare hours- the shop charged something like $90 to run an amp kit with RCAs front to rear.

audiobliss

Thanks a bunch, Greg! So far I have my driver's side seat out, and the sill panel and kick panel removed, and the carpet pulled back a bit. I'm still just looking on the driver's side for a hole to run the power wire, as that's the side I really wanna run it on, but I haven't found one yet. However, I have found a nice flat space right beside where the hood release cable goes through that's bare on both sides that looks like a great place to drill a hole.

The guy at the audio store sold me some big ol' 4-channel JL RCA cables. He said they have the same kind of sheilding as telephone and so could be run beside the power wire. I really don't like doing that, but man that'd be so much simpler!!

audiobliss

Oh, I almost forgot, I broke the head off one of the seat bolts. The left rear one (as if you're sitting in the seat), the head popped off.

Greg Peters

audiobliss wrote:

Oh, I almost forgot, I broke the head off one of the seat bolts. The left rear one (as if you're sitting in the seat), the head popped off.

Sounds like it's time for an "easy-out" to get the rest of the broken bolt out, then a trip to the junkyard to pirate an official Cherokee seat bolt...

Which side is your battery on- driver's side? If you do drill, be careful ('cause it's not always easy to see what's behind your drill bit that doesn't want to be drilled into).

Good luck.

audiobliss

The battery's on the passenger side, so I'll have to zip tie the power wire all around the perimeter of the engine bay, but I think that sure beats having to snake it across the floor of the Jeep inside!

From what I can tell from looking at both sides of the firewall, there appears to be a good 3 square inch area that's just bare metal. I'm hoping that'll work, but I'm not quite to the point of being ready to drill yet.

audiobliss

Oh, one more question!! Where should I put my distribution block? I noticed you said you have yours (and mentioned me putting mine) as close to the first amp as possible. I was planning on putting it just as soon as I got through the firewall. It's 2guage from the battery, then 4guage to the amps.

Which would be best? Thanks!

I guess now that I have some down time woudl be a good time to post what it is I actually bought.

I got the Memphis 16-MCA3004 75x4 amp, a JLAudio XA-PCS2-2 amp installation kit, and XA-CLRAIC4-18 RCA interconnects.

Description of amp installation kit:
2 AWG 12-Volt Power Connection System for Two Amplifiers, 700W to 1400W,
20 ft. red 2 AWG power wire, 10 ft. red 4 AWG power wire, 10 ft. black 4 AWG power wire

Description of RCA interconnects:
4 Channel Twisted-Pair Audio Interconnect Cable with Molded Connectors - 18 ft. / 5.49 m - just the standard stuff, not the 'premium' line.

audiobliss

Wiring...

How should I do this? Cut off a length of 2guage wire a few inches long, then have the fuse holder, then continue with 2guage to the distrobution block? Then I can run 4 guage to the amp. Should I run red as hot and black as ground, or just avoid unneccessary cutting and use it as I get to it?

AND, how in the world am I supposed to cut/strip this wire?!

EDIT - Oh, oh, the black 4guage is already terminated on both ends with ring terminals, so I'll just use the ends of that roll for the ground wire. Cut off 6" from one end, there's the ground for one amp. Then when I get another amp I can cut off 6" from the other end and there's my other ground wire.

I'm not sure 10' is long enough to get from the firewall to the passenger seat...maybe I should put the distrobution block as close to the first amp as I can...

Greg Peters

audiobliss wrote:

Oh, one more question!! Where should I put my distribution block? I noticed you said you have yours (and mentioned me putting mine) as close to the first amp as possible. I was planning on putting it just as soon as I got through the firewall. It's 2guage from the battery, then 4guage to the amps.

Which would be best? Thanks!

I'd run the 2 gauge along the sill under the carpet, then bend it to make a turn under the front seat. There should be a raised part of the floorpan ( a reinforcement) that goes from the sill to under the seat on drivers and passengers side across the interior.

Keep your 2 gauge next to that, and the carpet should still form around it. Split it under the seat, make a short 4 guage run to your under-seat amp, and a longer run back to your sub amp.

audiobliss

Ok, I gotcha. That sounds like a great idea. However, how will I 'hop over' the reinforcement 'bar' in the floorpan to get to the amp? Should I drill a hole in that bar?

I'm sorry to take up so much of your time on a Saturday afternoon, but I really appreciate the help!

Greg Peters

audiobliss wrote:

Wiring...

How should I do this? Cut off a length of 2guage wire a few inches long, then have the fuse holder, then continue with 2guage to the distrobution block? Then I can run 4 guage to the amp. Should I run red as hot and black as ground, or just avoid unneccessary cutting and use it as I get to it?

AND, how in the world am I supposed to cut/strip this wire?!

EDIT - Oh, oh, the black 4guage is already terminated on both ends with ring terminals, so I'll just use the ends of that roll for the ground wire. Cut off 6" from one end, there's the ground for one amp. Then when I get another amp I can cut off 6" from the other end and there's my other ground wire.

I'm not sure 10' is long enough to get from the firewall to the passenger seat...maybe I should put the distrobution block as close to the first amp as I can...

You want your inline fuse within 18" of the battery. Less is good. To strip it, cut the insulation all the way around with a pocket knife, then pry the short piece of insulation off- you can use a crimper to squeeze the wire at the cut, then pull. The short piece of cut insulation should come right off.

To cut the wire, a wire cutter/stripper (about 8 bucks) is best, but with 2 gauge you'll have to cut through it like you would with scissors. If you bought the fine-stranded power wire, a big pair of shears should snip it for you.

If 10' is on the short side, buy some bulk 2 guage off the roll at the audio store and use 18" or so of that from battery to fuse holder and keep the rest of the wire from the kit to run from fuse holder back into the car.

If your terminals at the fuse holder and at the amp are the crimp type, it'll save you a lot of hassle (if you don't have a welding wire type crimper that'll put a notch in the crimp) if you tin the bare wire with solder and then crimp it in a bench vise (good and tight).

Greg Peters

audiobliss wrote:

Ok, I gotcha. That sounds like a great idea. However, how will I 'hop over' the reinforcement 'bar' in the floorpan to get to the amp? Should I drill a hole in that bar?

I'm sorry to take up so much of your time on a Saturday afternoon, but I really appreciate the help!

Mine had a hole in in (but I ran my wire through and under to the rear). You could drill it- just use a rubber grommet or plastic "firewall bushing" wherever you put power wire through a drilled hole, so it doesn't chafe through and cause some arcing and fire in your Jeep.

Gotta go to work. Good luck.

audiobliss

The power wire is terminated on at least one end with a ring terminal, and the ground wire is terminated likewise on both ends. So that should definitely help with the connections.

Thanks!

exalted512

hows it going?
-Cody

1996blackmax

Once you get it all installed you should have a smile on your face .

audiobliss

Can I run my speaker wire next to the power wire?

exalted512

yes
-Cody

audiobliss

That was the right answer!!

Just got home from church. I suppose I'll start taking off the door panels and running the speaker wire.

What's the best thing to do with excess interconnect? The guy gave me 18' to go from my HU to under my front seat....and I only need, like, 8'. Where should have I have excess?

1996blackmax

Behind the dash....


I am in the middle of installing my gear in my other car and I will be running one of my amps under my seat. I already bought the RCA's that were meant for the trunk, so neatly tucked behind the dash is where they will be .

audiobliss

Too late. I've already wound it up 'under my feet'. If I can find a sufficient bolt for grounding, then I'll be ready to put it all back together.

Today I took out the passenger seat and molding and both door panels and ran all the speaker wire. I've also got the power wire, IC's, REM and all coming out of holes in the carpet just where I'll want them. If I don't have to pull the carpet back up to find a good grounding point, I'll be done under the carpet. Could I use the seat belt bolt for ground? Hmm, I'm not sure I could get it there.

When I get it all in, what should my 'power up' order be? Have ALL the cables run and hooked up, but with the fuse out, and hook up the batter, then put the fuse in?

exalted512

if you use a seat belt bolt for a ground im going to go up there and slap you.

scrape away some paint under the carpet, take the ground and shoot at least 3 screws in the terminal down to the car. You want to make it as short as possible, but not to the point where youre making it hard on yourself to get it really short.

you are correct in your order. Put the fuse in last, then start the car and turn on the radio
-Cody

MacLeod

exalted512 wrote:

if you use a seat belt bolt for a ground im going to go up there and slap you.

Ill drive you!

scrape away some paint under the carpet, take the ground and shoot at least 3 screws in the terminal down to the car. You want to make it as short as possible, but not to the point where youre making it hard on yourself to get it really short.

x2

Its way too easy to scrape off some paint, drill a hole and slap a terminated ground wire in.

audiobliss

Ok, I discovered another seat bolt that'll work perfectly. I scraped the paint off the floorpan, and since I'm using the drilled out ring terminal, I'm going to put a washer on either side of the ring terminal, and then the seat bracket, and then the screw. I think that'll work just dandy.

Will it?