Help. Volume cut in & out. Why?

Amaury

So I was blasting my new RTi10's this weekend watching the Audioslave Live in Cuba DVD in stereo mode & I mean BLASTING! These RTi10's are amazing. They just sound better and better the louder you play them.
I have a 5yr old Onkyo that pushes 55watts per channel. Max power 100watts in stereo mode I think. Anyways the sound started cutting off intermittently. I don't think it was the DVD b/c the video was fine. This happened a handful of times but the receiver never turned itself off or displayed any warning signs. I don't think It was the RTi10's b/c there was no distortion whatsoever at that high volume. Does anyone know what this might have been? Was my Onkyo overheating? Thanks.

univera

You need a better amp.:) There are many more qualified and more knowlegeable members than myself, but I find it hard to believe your speaks weren't distorting if you were running the amp high enough to clip (cut off.) The closer to the limits you run your amp, the higher the distortion levels. If you run it past its limits, its definitely distorting unless it has some built in protective circuitry to roll off the signal. Sounds like you need more, clean power.

At high volume levels, you are going to need some good headroom/power reserves, and it sounds like your amp ran out of steam. When you are blasting out at top end, if the music requires a dynamic change from a demanding musical passage, your current amp doesn't have anything left in reserve to satisfy the demands.

I don't know Onkyo's in particular, but I would suspect their stated power ratings might not be as reliable as Rotel, Nad, etc, therefore you aren't actually getting everything claimed. If I am wrong in any respect, I am sure I will be "adjusted." Depending on your budget, plenty of members can recommend a cleaner, more robust power supply.

See if your receiver has pre-amp outs that allows you to add external amplification. List your Onkyo model and what budget, if any, you have to add additional power. Do you have a purely stereo setup or multi-channel? Add this info and you will get lots of suggestions. If you are running purely stereo and can add external amplification, you should be able to get some solid power for $200-400.00. An Adcom GFA-555 is considered by many to be one of the best "buget" priced amps of all time. An NAD 2200 http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_2200.pdf is also a popular, very solid model with lots of clean power and a ton of reserve power. It's actual ratings seem much lower than the short burst power it can produce. The NAD will run anywhere from $200.00-330.00 depending on condition, etc. I am partial to NAD as I feel they give one alot of bang for the buck. If you like the Onkyo now, I feel you will like the NAD or Adcom even better.

The Adcom seems to cost a bit more than the NAD, but that also depends on the moment. If you really want to kick ****, get two of either amp and run them in mono, one to each speaker. You shouldn't run out of power with these speakers ever again.

Both are classic amps in the mid-fi category. Rotel and Parasound also make comparable products that others may suggest.

Edit: Your speakers are 8 ohms rated and therefore the NAD 2200 above will push 100 watts of clean power as oppossed to your amp now that maxes out at 100. This isn't a complicated load to handle, so the high voltage of the NAD should really rock the house. The NAD is capable of much greater, short burst power required by explosive musical passages (see the hyperlink above.) You should notice a much cleaner sound at high levels as well as overall better sound from any of the aforementioned companies.

cfrizz

You nailed it Univera!

Welcome to the club Amaury! If you have preouts get a separate amplifier & rock on. If not, turn it down & start looking for a new receiver that does have preouts so that you can get a separate amp.

Don't settle for less than 200 wpc. Your speakers will thank you, however I'm not so sure your ears will!:D

bknauss

You receiver might be going into a protect mode if its getting too hot. If you're really pumping up the volume, its definitely a possibility.

reeltrouble1

What number did you have the Onkyo volume set at? Your blasting may different from others. I can think of a couple of things off hand that might cause your onkyo to cut out.

RT1

Amaury

>What number did you have the Onkyo volume set at? Your blasting may different from others. I can think of a couple of things off hand that might cause your onkyo to cut out<

Anywhere from 65 to about 67 on the volume dial. Later once I get home, I'll post the model number. It is a 6.1 receiver, however I did have it set to stereo at the time. I don't think that the Onkyo has a pre-out to hook up an amp but I'll have to check the manual.

reeltrouble1

First check all the wires and make sure none are touching each other.

Then turn the volume down, you dont want to turn it up past half-way ever, even this can be to much. Most folks dont go past 11:00 on the dial.

Your Onk has a limited amount of current it can send down the wire as you turn up the volume the amount of current (ampres) called for increases, as your unit tries to meet the demand it heats up, this heat is a bad thing, all the parts inside get stressed, the wave form starts to get "clipped" off and the sound will be distorted, since you say you did not hear any distortion, it is likely your unit as some sort of protect mode as was mentioned, which caused it to shut down before serious damage occured to your unit and speakers.


Fast and dirty explanation, you can do a search here on "clipping" for tons of information.

RT1

Amaury

OK, I'll recheck my wiring as soon as I get home. I did not hear any distortion in the speakers at all. Quite the contrary, they sounded amazing, crisp & clean. As I mentioned earlier the only issue was that the sound would just cut off for a split second and then resume. I usually don't play the system that loud but was in the mood to rock out this weekend.:D So do you suggest not going over 50 on the volume dial? Also if they Onk was in distress and shutting itself off why didn't it just turn off completely? Thanks for all your help.

reeltrouble1

That is why I say check the wires, as you were Rocking the House the vibrations may be causing a stray wire to short out against another momentarily. Or something could be shaking on the board itself.

Yes, no more than 11:00, if that does not do it for you, then you are going to need a different reciever. The NAD amps are very good, I have used them with great success. There are simply oodles though to choose from, You want High Current in your next amplifier.

RT1

Amaury

So if the receiver was clipping would the speakers have sounded like crap? What would they have sounded like?

reeltrouble1

like crap is a pretty good description, you would lose clarity, resolution, everything would get muddled some rattling would be possible, go to far and the speaker will "hard clip" and you will hear a nasty loud popping sound. Dont do this you will damage your speakers.

RT1

Amaury

That's strange b/c if anything they sounded better than ever at that volume! Mids really shined, bass was tight and punchy, tweeters crisp & clear. Anyhow turns out my Onk is the TX-DS494. I checked the wiring, everything copasetic there, Oh yeah and the max vol. on this thing is 76. So I had it going practically full tilt at 67.

disneyjoe7

If max is 76 then I say 67 was way over the top.

50-55 should be top. If you like the sound higher I say amp it, you'll be amassed.

Amaury

Hah, yeah I guess it was little loud, but those babies really opened up I just wanted to go HIGHER. My ears were actually ringing after that DVD. Tinnitis like I was at the freakin concert! Just made me realize the potential of those RTi10's! Looks like I'll be buying a new receiver & amp in the near future & replacing this old Onkyo. My girlfriend is going to love that! Haha

disneyjoe7

You have a low end Onkyo, but I think you can add an Amp. So I say ok to keep your Onk for a Pre-Pro, you may like it.

Amaury

Can't find a pre-out on this pile though.

disneyjoe7

Well you have the best reason to start over

George Grand

There is a Carver product you can purchase on ebay that allows you to drive a outboard power amp from the speaker outputs of your Onk receiver. It's the Carver Z-coupler or something like that. Sometimes they go for as little as $20-25.

univera

George, how would something like that affect the sound? Seems like its putting something in the path.

disneyjoe7

The fact you're adding an Amp is a complete step up, more current more slew rate more everything. Do this and you will never what to put speakers back to your AVR. So yes you will add some noise but you'll like the amp upgrade. For $25 bucks I would go for it. IMHO

Amaury

Great! Thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions. You have definitely pointed me in the right direction. Quick newb question on bi-amping. Do I need to bi-amp w/ equal wattage amps? Seems to me like I would right?