Recommendations to Upgrade "Vintage" System

TomB

I've been reading here for a few months, and I've found a wealth of information on this forum. (Some of which I actually understand!)

I'm not really an audiophile, but I'd like to upgrade my first-stereo-out-of-college setup from circa 1981, which consists of: Harmon-Kardon HK740 Receiver, Denon DP-31L Turntable with Grado cartridge, Polk Monitor 7B Speakers, Nakamichi 480 ZX Cassette Deck and a recently purchased, cheap Sony CD player.

I really have no interest in home theater/multi-channel stuff, but I wouldn't mind listening to some DVD-A and SACD recordings. I still use vinyl fairly regularly, and pick up used and new LPs from time to time.

What's the weakest link in the system, and what would be the most cost effective way to improve the overall performance? (Other than to visit a dumpster, of course.) Cost really isn't an issue, other than the bounds of common decency. (No $500 speaker cables, for example.)

Thanks for your help.

Tom

VR3

Id get a nice integrated...

New source... (CDP)

TomB

Thanks. Any suggestions?

ND13

Get an entry level tubed pre and a decent high current amp with somewhere in the vicinity of 200 wpc and a decent cdp. Your speaks are great and the table is decent, too.

Welcome to Club Polk.

reeltrouble1

I love the sound of the Monitor 7's they are arguably the best of the vintage Monitor line.

You might upgrade the tweeters if you shot a pic we could tell. If you keep those speaks then definetely the CD player is your weak link then the receiver.

The Denon 2900 universal player is an outstanding music machine and can be had used on www.audiogon.com for around 400.00

The players move up the line from there I really enjoy high-rez music so SACD is a must for me. My favorite two companies are Musical Fidelity and Cary, however, there are many to choose from.

If you dig two channel the Dodd ELP is a solid performer and will get you into that wonderful tube sound for around 500.00 new. Conrad Johnson has a solid rep for tubed pre's as well and they are readily available. Another high end company with great gear is BAT.

The only limit is your imagination and of course budget. Now dont knock those 500 buck connects till you've heard them or tried them!!!!

RT1

TomB

Thanks for the advice, Reeltrouble. I believe I have the Peerless tweeters, based on the photographs and discussions I've seen elsewhere on the board. They're original, at any rate, as they haven't been touched since I took them out of the box in 1981. I'll try to post a picture.

rskarvan

No question... the 7B's are the weak link in the system. Just not enough speaker there.

Loud & Clear

I agree, speakers would be the most dramatic difference maker. Seems like that's almost always the case. A large pair of SDA's, for instance, would do far more for him than upgrading his cd player.

george daniel

I'd like to add,but Noel and RT1 pretty much summed it up, you can always upgrade your speaks later,if desired.Good advice,,enjoy

Early B.

If cost isn't much of an issue, then start all over and get newer (used) gear, except for the TT and cartridge. Start with a tube integrated amp ($600 - $1,000), a decent CD player ($500), and better speakers ($600 - $750). If you like Polk, go with the Lsi9's. Don't forget to invest in a good set of speaker stands, interconnects, and speaker cables. So for around $2K, you can get a killer system.

F1nut

Cost really isn't an issue

Give us a dollar amount, give or take.

reeltrouble1

TomB wrote:

Thanks for the advice, Reeltrouble. I believe I have the Peerless tweeters, based on the photographs and discussions I've seen elsewhere on the board. They're original, at any rate, as they haven't been touched since I took them out of the box in 1981. I'll try to post a picture.

Hmmmmm.................I was thinking the 7B did not have the peerless as original, but with the older Polk lines got blurred all the time. One of the Polk history Guru's will know for sure. If you have the peerless (black with a tiny pin hole in the center) then I would just keep those as that tweet is a sought after classic.

Please remember my statements are just that, I dig the 7's for the subtle smoothness they display handling jazz, pop, and so on, no slouch of a speaker, for full on hard rock I like the 10's. Of course, I am a big fan of Polk SDA & the LSI lineup. My experience is that the Monitor 7 line will work well with mid-level quality components. I will stand on the cd/receiver being the weak link if you keep the speaks given your present setup while recognizing a speaker change can have a dramatic effect on the sound of the rig.

Just have fun putting the system together and mixing things up a bit. As suggested a budget of some sort will bring more detailed suggestions.

RT1

TomB

ReelTrouble, my tweeters do have the pinhole, or dent, in the center, and the cone is black, as opposed to gray, as I've seen pictured in other tweeters. I can post the serial numbers and date of manufacture, if that would help.

I'm mainly interest in accurate, musical reproduction, not knocking the plaster off the walls. One thing that led me to consider upgrading was my recent purchase of a set of Grado headphones. Wearing the 'phones, I can pick out vocal harmonies and other details that I can't hear through the 7B, when listening to the same source. Given that, it almost seems like the speakers must be the weak link.

At any rate, I'd like to upgrade in stages, rather than start from scratch, and I could probably drop a grand or better at each "stage", and still stay out of trouble with my wife. I'm also on the lookout for a decent cabinet to hold equipment and media (audio only, no TV); preferably one that looks like a real piece of furniture.

reeltrouble1

OK, those are the Peerless, and given they are not getting it done for you, then I would change the speaks. Damm, which ones?? Lsi 7-9 or Lsi 15 for floorstanders, if your staying with Polk, if not I like NHT and Revel. If you can go with a large speaker explore planar say Magnepan.

I would look for a BAT3xi pre which will be a bit more than a grand on the used market. If you want new and dont need a remote then the Dodd ELP.

The new Marantz SACD's are solid performers in the grand range.

Check www.AudioAdvisor.com for furniture I like the Salamander stuff and several folks here use it, as always there is a wide selection.

I think doing it one piece at a time is very wise.

RT1

danger boy

change out your interconnects and speaker cables first.. then go from there. the 7B's with peerless (same ones I have) are a very good speaker. if the swapping out of interconnects doens't make a difference.. then i'd go with a new pre, then a different CD player.

AndyGwis

Tom, get a better CDP. Most seem to like Cambridge Audio 540/640 or Rotel (don't know what models).

Oh, and not to highjack the thread too much, but I can pick up some local Monitor 7B's for $125 or so. Look to be in decent shape. Is that an alright deal? Just want something to play around with while I wait for some LSis to come my way at the right price, and want to see what vintage polk sounds like.

I'm sure I could move them when the time comes, and maybe even supe them up if I have time and interest (new tweets, etc.).

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1160104675

cfrizz

I would start with upgrading the receiver & make sure it has preouts to add a separate amplifier.

Once I went from 110wpc with my receiver up to 200wpc with the separate amp, I was picking out details in music that I never heard before either.

There's nothing like feeding your speakers lots of power to make them wake up!

mhardy6647

For the record, Peerless tweeters look like this (in a Monitor 7A, in this case):


What are you trying to accomplish? The h/k receivers of old were pretty good sounding, in my book. My daughter even has a mid-1980's hk digital receiver (hk690i) which sounds OK and is quite a tank. The weakest link I see in your equipment is the tt. If you're at all interested in vinyl reproduction, I'd suggest considering something like a VPI Scout or the new Marantz TT-15S1 (essentially a Clearaudio Emotion with Satisfy tonearm and a cartridge). Nothing wrong with Grado cartridges, in my book! I am sure yours would benefit from a new stylus -- Grado is going strong still, with a broad range of MM cartridges. The lush Grado sound goes well with vintage Polk speakers IMNSHO.






BTW, don't knock dumpster diving for upgrades! I got my Allison Ones at our town dump, for example.

Flash21

Well as usual with this type of question you are getting a mishmash of opinions...here are my thoughts.

Your HK is a pretty good piece for what it is. So are the speakers, usually, so I don't consider those to be the weak link. The newest component, the Sony CD player probably would my first choice for weakest link...I'd bet it sounds thin compared to a better player with a beefier power supply. A Rotel would be a good step up.

Going from there, as much as I hate to say it, you will have to delve into speaker cables and interconnects...even power cords eventually. They do make a difference in getting that last but very satisfying bit of clarity out of your system. I recommend you look at VH Audio products, I have been very happy with Chris's stuff and they are an excellent value for the $$.

If you are willing to throw a grand at each piece you can get a very nice system. I would start with an integrated amp over seperates, the dollars saved on the interconnects can be well used elsewhere. Then speakers. Then sources (assuming you've already ditched that Sony).

You are going to get a million opinions, best take this one step at a time to avoid terminal confusion.

reeltrouble1

Well all that is just peaches and cream except the man said he wanted to hear some high rez music wanted some nice audio furniture, then later he went on to say the 7C were just not doing it for him. So he needs some new speaks, hell, he has had the Monitors for over 25 years so I guess they served up well. Just because I like the 7's sure does not mean anyone else has too. Its all good advice Tom, let us know how you come along and most of all.

Have fun.

RT1

ND13

I know that when I changed what I was driving my 7As with, it was like I had found a new speaker. I still say to upgrade the components first, because the Monitor 7s, while forgiving with what they will play nicely with, will sound better with better gear driving them. I know this from personal experience. Seeing that he wants to upgrade most, if not all, of his gear, try the frontend first. He might just fall in love with his 7s all over again...I know I did. There are two sets of Polks in my house, out of 5, that I'll always hold onto, my SRS 2s and Monitor 7As.

If he still finds the speakers lacking, then he can start the fun of auditioning speaker after speaker.

reeltrouble1

Ok, I am easy, yes, Noel, whatever he does I would do one thing at a time and I would personally keep the monitors, but then we own how many sets of speakers?????:D My monitors are my extra speaks I pull out for an occasional change. besides looks like Tom took a hike, which might not be a bad thing.

RT1

TomB

Nope, I'm still here. I was just away for a few days. I've just been reading and digesting the various recommendations, all of which I appreciate. I expected a wide variety of opinions, and I'm not disappointed. For now, I'm leaning toward, in this order: (a) new digital source for CD, DVD-A and SACD; (b) a beefier two-channel receiver, as I'm not quite ready to take the "separates" plunge yet; and (c) new cables - nothing outlandish, but a step up from the Monser Cable clear I'm using now.

As for so-called "universal" players: any advice? I've seen some cheap ones, which I assume are worth what you pay for them. I was considering one of the mid-level Denon models.

Thanks for the advice.

reeltrouble1

Alot of folks here have the Denon 3910, a solid performer, I really enjoyed my 2900 before passing it on to another member. The problems occur when you have shared circuitry between the signal paths, of course, units with discreet paths for each signal charge some high dollars for this option.

If your set on a receiver so be it, but I would make sure, a tubed pre with a high current quality amp is a tough combination to beat.

The MIT Shotgun 3 cables are my favorites to date.

RT1

AndyGwis

There are a number of Pioneer Elite Universals that can be had for reasonable prices, used of course. I have the DV-59avi, which I love so far. Great PQ through HDMI. . . but if only for audio, you could get DV-47avi for a bit cheaper and not miss out on much SQ wise.

I also looked at Marantz 6400/6500, Denon 2200/2910/3910, etc. All had pros and cons so I went with the best deal that came my way.

madmax

Sometimes if you have had the same stuff for a long time it is fun to dump it all (ebay or whatever) and then buy a completely different system. There are a LOT of options out there.
madmax

audiobliss

TomB wrote:

(a) new digital source for CD, DVD-A and SACD; (b) a beefier two-channel receiver, as I'm not quite ready to take the "separates" plunge yet; and (c) new cables - nothing outlandish, but a step up from the Monser Cable clear I'm using now.

Sounds like you have a pretty good plan laid out, imo. I would definitely replace the source first, too. I'm happy with my Rotel.

As for a receiver, I honestly believe my receiver was the biggest waste of money I've ever been suckered into with regards to audio. Now, granted, it's a HT receiver, and I'm sure a 2-channel receiver would be MUCH stouter than mine was, but I would personally encourage you to take a look at some separates. The difference, both in amplification and in the preamp, and in the resulting sound, is amazing. I have an awesome (imo) combination of preamp and amps that I bought used on this forum for $110 less than I paid new for my receiver, and there's no way under the sun the receiver can even BEGIN to hold a candle to my preamp and amps now.

Anyhoo, I just say that to say...don't write off separates yet.

And, have fun!

audiobliss

Oh, also, you have a very decent (nice) set of speakers. I would, like some others have suggested, try getting more out of them before dumping them. However, you very well may be ready for new speakers. Time will tell.