GainClones and T-Amps with PC

Gaara

Ok everyone my head is ready to explode. I have been reading up on gainclone amps and t-amps for a few days now and I have an information overload. I am looking for these amps for two systems and think I have one down.

The first is a basement system while working out, I want to replace a Sony Mini System I currently used. I picked up some Insignia speakers and plan to pair it with a Super T-Amp and a decent Yamaha cd changer. I also plan on using this with a portable cd player for a nice compact system to be used outside when friends are over, or for watching tv outside with. I don't see any problems with a Yamaha CD Changer -> Super T -> Insignias, but if anyone else does please chime in.

The second system is where I am getting confused, and it is a computer system for the PC I will be buying in a couple of weeks. I will be using LSi7s and I am unsure on the sound card, maybe a Envy24 unit, or perhaps a M-Audio 2496. Originally I was planning on going with a cheap integrated, like a NAD C320BEE (I think is the model), but then started reading about gainclones.

I was always interested in passive preamps becuase it seems so simple, as do the gain clones. I only need one input so the signal would go Sound Card -> passive pre -> amp -> LSi7s. So then I thought I could get a decent gainclone for $200 and a passive preamp for around $100 and have a much better system then any integrated for that price. Then there are many options for passives, Endler, EVS, CIAudio, Monarchy, Creek...

Then I read up on the T-Amps, specifically the Super T-Amp, which I will be using in the other system. With this I could have my preamp and amp in one for around $150 shipped, and reviews seem fantastic so far. I also like the fact that this unit is "off the grid" (RWA term) so to speak, and is below what I expected to spend.

Now my main issue with both these systems is gain, will I have enough power? I don't listen very loud and this will be nearfield, I estimate a max of 85db from around 3ft away, normal listening closer to 70db. I am just wondering if anyone has experience that I could learn off of invloving either the gainclones or the t-amp in this type of system. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jared

ohskigod

I dont know much about gainclones and pc sound cards, but I'm looking at your application with the super T and the insignias, and am questioning the need for the super t over the regular T-amp.

the regular T for 25-30 bucks, with a 20.00 wall wart (1 Ma at minimum) and the single miniplug to 2 rca adapter (radio shack again) with the insignia's and a decent cd player will be more than enough. I really dont thin you will here the subtle differences between the super t and the t with that backend.

even on a high end, very efficient speaker, the difference between the 2 would be subtle. there the same amp, just with a better power supply and better connectors from what I know.

Gaara

ohskigod,

That is an idea also, going for the standard and saving $100 or so. One of the main reasons that I wanted to go with the Super was the battery, I got the impresion that the Super uses a battery pack while the standard uses AAs. For me this would make the super worth it over the standard, I like the fact that I just have to take it out and it would be all set, not have to worry about having a stock of batteries. Thank you for the heads up though on the speakers, I never really thought a head that with a pair of $50 speakers I won't notice much of a difference.

Jared

ohskigod

yeah, its something to think about. I assume the battery part is for when you want to take it outside and whatnot. remember, you can do a 12V battery with the t amp. do a search on here about it and you'll get info. you need a cable that will go from the battery (hooked to pos and neg) to the t amp. I heard thats actually the right way to fly for the best results out of the T, better than my wall wart option.


or, just the super t, either way your not going wrong per say.

Gaara

Actually I didn't know you could do a 12v battery with the standard T, that is news to me. That may have just saved me $90.

michael_w

With a normal t-amp I think you should have enough power. I ran my lsi7's off my t-amp and it pushed them to very decent levels before it started to clip (very noticable when it does).

I'll have to check out this 12v battery option... that would be very cool.

Gaara

Michael and ohskigod,

Thanks for the heads up. I purchased the Super T and have it playing downstairs right now. So far I love it, I think I will use this for the 7s upstairs and get the standard T for downstairs. I will use ac adapter of the Super for the standard T, and buy a better quality one for the Super. I will also have to read up on the batterys, and for now will use the AAs for the standard T while playing outside.

If anyone sees any reason why a Super T with upgraded PS for a pair of LSi7s wouldn't work please speak up.

Jared

ohskigod

LSi's are usually pretty power hungry, so I dont think you'll get the most out of them.

as long as you dont clip the amp, its not like your going to do any damage. even when the T clips, its pretty soft, although I wouldnt let it clip all day on the LSi's for fear of damage (and sounding like @ss)

keep your eyes out for a bookshelf with about 90db's effieciency. like the RT55's or somesuch and it will work quite nicely.

Gaara

I will give the Super T-Amp a whirl when I get back, see how well it mates with the LSi7s.

I am now leaning more towards a 60w/channel gainclone and using a Axiom passive preamp by Luminous Audio. This would be about $130 for the pre and $170 for the amp, with the soundcard being $100.

As for the speakers, I already have the LSi7s and love their sound nearfield which is why I am using them with the pc system. I took the sides off to slim thier profile, which would probably make them harder to sell if I wanted to switch speakers.

This would also allow me to experiment with using a passive pre with my main system, which I have always curious about.

Gaara

OK I tried the Super T for a while with the LSi7s and am impressed with the combo. It sounds great, nice soundstage w/ decent depth, a decent amount of air, and tonally good. On the downside bass isn't as punchy as with other amps, things seem to gel together at higher volumes, and it distorts right about where I would listen to it max. Overall I am impressed for such a cheap little amp, but it is going to stay in the basement.

I pulled the trigger on the gain clone and axiom, I am getting a custom made one by Tim Rawson, it will be a 3886 chip gain clone with ~60w/channel 22kohm input impedance with a gain of 22db. He is getting a shipment of transformers specifically for 4ohm speakers this week, so I should have it by the end of next week. The axiom pre is the version with upgraded caddock resistor and is a 2.5kohm version. The M-Audio card I will be using has 1.95v output w/ 150ohm impedance. Total price was 170 for the gainclone and 157 for the axiom, the only thing that sucks is literally one hour after I paid for the axiom one went up on agon that was exactly what I needed for $30 less. Ohwell. I will be sure to report back on how things sound once I get the system up and running.

Jared

michael_w

Gaara wrote:

On the downside bass isn't as punchy as with other amps, things seem to gel together at higher volumes, and it distorts right about where I would listen to it max...

I've had pretty much the same reaction to the normal t-amp with my 7's. It clips just before that max level I would usually listen at. The same thing happened when I was listening to a 3 watt tube amp. It could push them well but just not quite to that point of getting really involved in the music. Nevertheless, still very impressive for a small amp on a budget.

Good luck with the gainclone and axiom.

Gaara

Ok another thread I forgot to post to, dam exams have been killing my memory.

In the end the Super-T was compared to the Rawsonte gainclone, and lost. It was relegated to the basement where it served its duty with a Yamaha CDC-506 and a pair of Insignias. Then it became two pairs of Insignias which really was twice the fun, then two pairs of modded Insignas. Then the upgrade bug hit again and currently it is playing with a pair of Onix X-ls, great budget bookshelf by the way thanks again Raj (rnp614). Of course I am insane and can't stop upgarding so a pair of Onix X-ls in Ferrari Red with No-Rez and Ninja Master Crossover upgrades are on their way. The ones I purchased for Raj will now be going to my mother's very first real stereo. I may be picking up the NAD 320BEE I was originally planning on after all.

Well why did I choose the Gainclone you may ask? Good question, numerous reasons but most importantly bass! I actually found that the gainclone was very comparable to the T, a little warmer in the highs, a little wider soundstage but besides that very similar except on two accounts. As to be expected my 60w gainclone has more power then my ~12w Super-T, so with movie trailers things don't fall apart as they did with the T. The second is the bass, Tim was waiting to get transformers that were made for 4ohm loads and it was worth it. This amp has a great amount of bass, very punchy very tight, I love it. Not what I would expect from a $150 amp, and there is no noise. I was afraid that being ~2 feet away at all times there would be noise, but my speakers 7s are silent.

All and all I am very happy with my Super-T and the X-ls while my axiom and gainclone take care of the 7s. Of course the upgrade bug has hit again for the basement, and I am considering the new Trends-Audio T-10 T amp, or maybe one of Rawsonte's integrateds...

Jared

Systems

Gaara,I am in the process of building a 3channel 3875 based GainClone amp to drive a DIY Vifa two way and 10" subwoofer for my PC.Like Zero mentioned many build with too little capacitance in the power supply but I will use about 20,000uf which should allow for better dynamics and tighter bass.