It's All About the Room

Early B.

OK, I sold my beloved Buggtussels and returned to the Taylo Reference Monitors because I missed the phenomenal accuracy these things put out. Previously, I had my 2-channel system set up in another room. This time the system is housed in a larger room. Nothing else has changed except the room, and the speakers sound quite different. Some of the subtler details and musical intimacy appears to get lost in the room (13 x 20 x 8). Not surprisingly, the bass is not quite as punchy. I now realize that I enjoy nearfield listening that a smaller room affords.

Suffice it to say that the Taylos and the rest of my 2-channel system are going back in the smaller room. But first, I gotta find another pair of fronts for HT. This time I may just settle on an inexpensive pair of monitors. I like the Swan 2.1BC at www.newegg.com or maybe the Onix RS250 or maybe I'll spurge and get the Von Schweikert VR-1's. Alternatively, I can use my Buggtussel bookshelf speakers (currently pulling center channel duty) as my fronts and get a nice center channel.

Stay tuned.

pearsall001

Man how right you are!! The room itself is the most important piece of the whole audio puzzle. You can have the most expensive gear set up in a bad room & guess what, you're going to get bad sound. Sound travels at 1130ft per second, it's bouncing all over the place. If your room can't control it, no matter how good your gear is it's not going to give you good sound. All rooms need some type of acoustical treatments to make your system perform at it's best. A lot of folks blaim the gear, run out & upgrade, get the same results & stand there & scratch their heads, never giving the room a second thought. Mistake!!! hugh mistake!!!

madmax

The room is far more important than any piece of equipment you have with the exception of your ears.
madmax

joeparaski

Ok, so the room makes a big difference, I can understand that. But...what can one do, or WHAT does one do to a typical basement to improve the sound?

Early B.

I don't know if this is the case with the differences in my rooms, but I had my previous 2-channel system set up in the middle of the long wall. On the larger room, the system is set up along the long wall, but it is offset to the right. Therefore, the right speaker is limited in producing the same soundstage as the left one.

Holydoc

Early B. wrote:

OK, I sold my beloved Buggtussels .

Uggh! Suddenly the only person I knew in the world who owned Buggtussels, and you sold them. Their name just always made me smile.

schwarcw

joeparaski wrote:

Ok, so the room makes a big difference, I can understand that. But...what can one do, or WHAT does one do to a typical basement to improve the sound?

Buy lots of big SDA's and get some powerful amps.

I think you did this pretty well Joe!

wingnut4772

I guess you did say their name three times.:p

I think the room is almost THE most important component. I just placed an order with Real Traps to improve mine.

janmike

What are/is Real Traps Wing? Thanks.

wingnut4772

REAL TRAPS . They make frequency traps which absorb sound to keep it from bouncing around the room and giving you echos, reflection and smeared , sloppy sound. I called up and talked to Ethan (the owner) and he was incredibly friendly and helpful. I sent him a few pics of the room and he recommended what traps to put where for different budget amounts. I should get them and have them installed in a week or so.

Holydoc

wingnut4772 wrote:

REAL TRAPS . They make frequency traps which absorb sound to keep it from bouncing around the room and giving you echos, reflection and smeared , sloppy sound. I called up and talked to Ethan (the owner) and he was incredibly friendly and helpful. I sent him a few pics of the room and he recommended what traps to put where for different budget amounts. I should get them and have them installed in a week or so.

Darla,

This stuff is new to me too so please excuse if I ask some stupid questions or make some silly accusations. I do not mean to offend if I do.

Ethan can tell from pictures what traps you need? I thought you would need to experiment and move things around to find where the "sweet spots" for traps need to be. Then there is the SPL measurements needed to determine how thick of traps and construction you will need. In other words, how does he know what effect that batman poster would have, or the slope of your room, or that tapestry on the back wall, the height of the coffee table? Well you get my point.

Just be careful that Ethan is not just trying to sell you something that you may or may not need. I am sure he is very knowledgeable. I just see so many variables to every room that may not be apparent from just pictures. Be sure to do SPL measurements before and after placements. Find out your peaks and nulls and place traps to level these out.

Keep us informed on how things turn out.

joeparaski

Man, they don't give those things away do they?

*****High-Performance Acoustic Treatment

at prices everyone can afford************

wingnut4772

Holydoc wrote:

Darla,

This stuff is new to me too so please excuse if I ask some stupid questions or make some silly accusations. I do not mean to offend if I do.

Ethan can tell from pictures what traps you need? I thought you would need to experiment and move things around to find where the "sweet spots" for traps need to be. Then there is the SPL measurements needed to determine how thick of traps and construction you will need. In other words, how does he know what effect that batman poster would have, or the slope of your room, or that tapestry on the back wall, the height of the coffee table? Well you get my point.

Just be careful that Ethan is not just trying to sell you something that you may or may not need. I am sure he is very knowledgeable. I just see so many variables to every room that may not be apparent from just pictures. Be sure to do SPL measurements before and after placements. Find out your peaks and nulls and place traps to level these out.

Keep us informed on how things turn out.

Of course the best way would to do things in person but first reflections are first reflections and generally speaking from experience I believe that you could look at a room and suggest a basic strategy of attack. Fine tuning would require the very things you suggest and short of Ethan flying down here that is my job. I told Ethan that I was just interested in a basic set up to tame the reverb , echoes in the room (as well as bass) and he picked the obvious spots from the photos....but I see your point.:)

jm1

wingnut4772 wrote:

I guess you did say their name three times.:p

I think the room is almost THE most important component. I just placed an order with Real Traps to improve mine.

Darla,

Glad to see you understand this and are taking appropriate steps to correct this deficiency. You are in for quite a surprise once the treatments are in place. I suspect this will be the begining of the journey as you appear to be quite serious about audio.

Joey_V

Still cant believe you sold the Bags...

unc2701

Yep. My new room sounds like crap. Major standing wave right around 40hz and there's no way for me to get bass traps big enough into the room under WAF. So it looks like a BFD for me. Thank god the top end isn't too bad- heavy drapes over the one window & furniture placement seems to have that under control.

...guess I should mention that I don't like "dead" rooms. Some people try to kill all reflections, I just want to tame them.

unc2701

Holy crap!!!

So last night I decided to finally start playing around with the bass issues in my room- I start up a 40 hz sine wave, whip out the rat shack SPL meter and sit down in my listening spot... take a measurement, then figure I'll flip the phase on one of the LSI 25 subs to see what happens. As I'm standing up to walk to the speaker, i get this huge thrumming in my ear for just a second- gone when I'm totally upright.


So I sit back down and start moving the SPL meter left, right, up down.

14 freaking decibles peak to trough within arm range!!!

No combination of phase on the subs would get rid of it- it goes from dead to rattle the teeth out of your head in about 4 1/2 feet. Looks like I'm gonna have to figure out some bass traps.

SKsolutions

unc2701 wrote:

Holy crap!!!

So last night I decided to finally start playing around with the bass issues in my room- I start up a 40 hz sine wave, whip out the rat shack SPL meter and sit down in my listening spot... take a measurement, then figure I'll flip the phase on one of the LSI 25 subs to see what happens. As I'm standing up to walk to the speaker, i get this huge thrumming in my ear for just a second- gone when I'm totally upright.


So I sit back down and start moving the SPL meter left, right, up down.

14 freaking decibles peak to trough within arm range!!!

No combination of phase on the subs would get rid of it- it goes from dead to rattle the teeth out of your head in about 4 1/2 feet. Looks like I'm gonna have to figure out some bass traps.

A great argument for books-with-sub.

unc2701

SKsolutions wrote:

A great argument for books-with-sub.

I wish. I even turned off one sub and you still get the standing waves.

mulveling

Tell me about it. Sorry you're having problems with your current room, Brad I think the Taylos without a sub were an excellent match for my untreated room. Seems like they just started to roll off before the nasty standing wave peaks specific to this room (14.5' wide, 9' high, about 19' back to the open kitchen); in fact that may have reinforced the rolled off bass of the monitors.

My Legacy Sig III's have a lot of bass and though I love them, it's been difficult getting this "just right". I've got 6 LENRD bass traps but beats me where they should go. It would help if I could find a non-destructive way to mount them on walls. For now I've brought the Speaks almost 4' out from the walls and put some traps behind them. Might post pics later and beg for advice

SKsolutions

Early B. wrote:

It's all about the room. QUOTE]

Is it padded with bars. . . . . .yet.:D

univera

My old Kefs that sounded great in my old room with tile floors sounded lifeless in my new, high, tray ceiling room. They struggled to fill the room. Thank god I came across large SDA's. Problem solved. Definitely learned about room importance.

organ

Agree about the room. If you want to get creative, try hanging a thick blanket along the back wall. I did this and it helped quite a bit.