Guerrilla Speaker Wire vs Blue Jeans vs Others

SolidSqual

http://guerrillaaudio.com/store/philosophy.html

Hey Guys,

Now that I have the dream system of a young man fresh out of college. I've decided to refine the system by resloving any and all of the weak points my system may have. Consequently, I decided to begin by upgrading my speaker wire. Currently, I am using general RCA wire from Target and 12 gauge wire i purchased from a Radio Shack going out of business. It was a great deal for the time. The speaker wire is the thickest wire I have ever used in any system, but despite what I've read in some forums, it seems thick wire may not always be the best. Take a look at this excerpt from Guerilla Audios webpage.

"Everything, and I do mean everything, in the path of your music alters the sound in some way.
This is a simple, unavoidable fact. With cables, thin wire sound better than fat wire (and has better bass too). Short cables are better than long ones. With speakers and components every internal part has a signature sound, so we like our equipment to have as few parts as possible. With fewer parts, the quality of those parts is dramatically emphasized, so it's important to only use the best. Less is more in accurate sound reproduction. I want my music altered as little as possible, making it identical to what the recording engineer wants me to hear. That's exactly what our cables are engineered to do. Add nothing...remove the garbage...hear everything within your music."

What are the thoughs of this forum? Would new cables make a massive difference? I notice many people have blue jeans cables for their interconnects and speaker wire. Any experience would be great to share . . . Thanks.

schwarcw

Interesting write-up, which I agree in general. Depending on your system, you may or may not hear much difference with speaker wires. You could spend a lot of money or very little money. You have a very nice system but I wouldn't put $1,000 into speaker wires. That kind of money could be better spent on upgrading other equipment that would give you a better sound (i.e. a separate amp for the fronts, a preamp processor, better source, etc.). I think the speaker cables from BlueJeans or Signal cable would be fine.

If you want to spend a little more, look at some used cables on Audiogon. MIT, PS Audio and others have some nice higher grade cables.

SolidSqual

I don't want to speand that kind of money on cables either. I was really considering the blue jeans cable. I figure a couple hundred on cables would be money well spend on my system, but I also don't want to just by something with hyped up marketing. For example, I can't really tell the difference between the monster cable I use on one of my subwoofers compared to the regular RCA cable from Target on my other sub. Naturally, because I feel I've put so much money into buying nice equipment, i want to make sure the wiring tie it all together is nice as well, but I don't want to buy wire for status, I wan to buy wire for performance. I want the results to be more than just numbers that the human hear can make no distinction between.

millerman 3732

schwarcw wrote:

Interesting write-up, which I agree in general. Depending on your system, you may or may not hear much difference with speaker wires. You could spend a lot of money or very little money. You have a very nice system but I wouldn't put $1,000 into speaker wires. That kind of money could be better spent on upgrading other equipment that would give you a better sound (i.e. a separate amp for the fronts, a preamp processor, better source, etc.). I think the speaker cables from BlueJeans or Signal cable would be fine.

If you want to spend a little more, look at some used cables on Audiogon. MIT, PS Audio and others have some nice higher grade cables.

what he said............ there are alot of other places that your money could be put to better use, for now that is.

Early B.

Start with getting some decent speaker wire for your fronts and center channel. Try Audioquest Type 4 or Type 6.

millerman 3732

SolidSqual wrote:

I don't want to speand that kind of money on cables either. I was really considering the blue jeans cable. I figure a couple hundred on cables would be money well spend on my system, but I also don't want to just by something with hyped up marketing. For example, I can't really tell the difference between the monster cable I use on one of my subwoofers compared to the regular RCA cable from Target on my other sub. Naturally, because I feel I've put so much money into buying nice equipment, i want to make sure the wiring tie it all together is nice as well, but I don't want to buy wire for status, I wan to buy wire for performance. I want the results to be more than just numbers that the human hear can make no distinction between.

if you want to hear results put your money toward an amp instead of wires.

SolidSqual

Acoustic Research PRO II (PR-223) 250-Ft. Speaker Wire

This is the speaker wire I have been using. I found the link to it on Radishacks website if you guys want to take a look. Anyone have some reviews on this stuff?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2420157&cp=2032058.2032227.2032241&parentPage=family

SolidSqual

Oh sorry, I forgot to list that I have a Outlaw M2200 on each of my 10s and one on my CSi5.

SolidSqual

How's that for good amping?

millerman 3732

sounds good to me

Early B.

If you have Outlaw amps, you'll definitely want to upgrade your RCA cables from the amps to the receiver. Again, go with Audioquest -- Copperhead or Corals.

audiobliss

I think your Outlaw amps are probably delivering everything you're currently asking of your system. I agree that you shouldn't spend too much on cables, as you could reap some benefits from upgrading other components, such as using a dedicated preamp/processor and upgrading your source.

As for what speaker cables to go with, I can't give any specific recommendations since I'm just now considering upgrading speaker wire, too.

SolidSqual

Oh hell, After some internet research, I think Accoustic Research is a smaller company of Audiovox! What have I done?!!!

Sherardp

I was thinking the same thing, he already has good amping, on the fronts and center, not sure how much you should have. I think the speaker wire you have now is good unless you just want the pretty stuff. I made my own speaker cable using good monster 12awg cable, banana plugs, and a few other parts from parts express, they even have the pretty jackets on them. If youre more concerned with looks use what you have and do it yourself.

If youre more concerned with name brand stuff then sure go for the Audioquest, Cobalt, Signal, Blue Jean, Cables to Go, etc. My thoughts you wont notice the slight difference anyway, unless youre going from crappy shoe string wire to the good 12-14 awg stuff .

If you really wanna spend some cash, upgrade to an Outlaw 5 or 7 channel amp and sell me one of those MonoBlocks you have for an outstanding price my friend.

wingnut4772

I have tried, Monster, Cobalt, Analysis Plus , Better Cables and DH Labs. Out of those the DH Labs Q10 is terrific. I don't feel the need to try any more.

SolidSqual

Sheradp:

God I love your advise Sheradp! You and I have such a similar system and I feel we think quite alike when it comes to the nitty and gritty of home theater construction. I'm glad I can tell you that I decided to keep the monoblocks instead of the Model 7500. So instead I bought another monoblock for my center! Sorry I don't think I'm going to be selling anytime soon. You should see my setup with the three blocks stacked below my yammie. I may continue to buy monoblocks for any speaker upgrades I have in the future just because they look so bad ****. Right now, i'm listening to my speakers and smiling because I feel like I started a small gang of amps in my audio room. I think I'll listen to them real hard tonight as a right of passage or something. Hehe

SolidSqual

Hey after reading the advise of everyone, I really appreciate everything you all had to say. I've narrowed my options down to some good brands. thank you. Now all I have to do is listen and see which ones I like better.

Sherardp

I think if I make the jump to brand cables, Im going Cobalt, I just have to get up the urge to spend 1500 bucks to have every single cable a cobalt. Sooner or later I'll click on the PLACE ORDER button and close my eyes when I do it. LOL. Hey SolidSqual let me know what you come up with, is your system in the showcase, would love to see some pics.

wingnut4772

anonymouse wrote:

and I think the Cobalt I bought from wingnut is a massive improvement over Monster XPHP and generic Radioshack stuff. With the LSi9's the resolution tightened up considerably. Seems like the amp has much better control over the speakers and the realized damping factor is improved.

Glad you like them!:D

SolidSqual

someday when i get the cables all cleaned up I'll put it in a showcase. Is your system on the showcase? I don't know if I will ever be able to throw down $1500 on cables. I guess I could knowing that the cables were better than anything I could put together from parts.

By the way, does anyone have an opinion on banana plugs vs bare cable vs spades?

Sherardp

bare wire is always best from what i read on here and other forums, however I use banana plugs on both ends due to simplicity. Using bare wire on the ES receivers for me has been a nightmare, I just cant seem to get the wires down in there good enough and it bothers me. So during my last upgrade I did everything with the B-plugs. Just so much easier for me to deal with, patience wears thins with bare wire. I have never used spades but I guess allot of audiophiles love them because the connection seems more secure as where some have had B-plugs that seem lose in the speaker jacks, etc.

ledhed

I have Blue Jeans (Though not an impressive set up) and I think the build quality is great and the price is even better! Just a little info , FWIW

cfrizz

I also have BJC! Before that I had whatever came in the box with the equipment. It goes on & off like a dream & it didn't cost me an arm & a leg. I really like their philosophy about wire!

audiobliss

Ok, so far we have recommendations for Audioquest, Signal Cable, MIT, Guerilla Audio, Cables to Go, Blue Jeans Cable, Cobalt Cable, and PS Audio. What are some other good speaker cable manufacturers worth researching?

Also, is it usually better to get a 'bi-amp' cable or just two pairs if you're bi-amping? I would rather have the two runs for flexibility and perhaps better resell value, but it'd be a lot cheaper just to get a 'bi-amp version'.

I'd appreciate any input!

Joey_V

Skimmed the thread very lightly, so I'm just going to put my 1 speaker cable recommendation - the ones I'm getting a few months.

Nordost

Just check them out to see if you jive with their sound..... they look cool though, no one can deny that.

amulford

I don't know about the thinner is better. Maybe for solid wire, but not for stranded. The thicker the gauge, the more current it can carry with less resistance.

I have tried a few, nothing esoteric. I kind of like the Signal, and I like my Cobra(s)

audiobliss

Just from briefly looking online here the past few minutes, I'm really drawn to the new Cobalt Ultimate speaker cables. Looks really nice. Any thoughts on Cobalt?

Drumingman

I use AR Pro 12 guage. I use 2 EQ's and all the tech that I have to make my R series sound as Musical as possible and they sound great to me and my opinion in my sound system is the bottom line for me. I'm not keep up with the Jonses.

About having it sound as the engineeer wanting me to hear it. My hearing is probally not the exact same as that guys and he didn't mix it throught R series speakers and HK products. I bet he didn't mix it through any Polk products. Also the acoustics in your room and mine are not exactly the mix down room. Yes, simple direct signals to your speakers are the best chain to have but there are others considerations such as the ones mentioned above and many more. While I agree that in speaker cables, bigger is better, the point of cost for performance at a certain level is different in all equipment used. I think the most important factor, as was related in a article a while back, is the sound source. A crappy recording will sound crappy on the best equipment, and a great recording will make an entry level system, like mine, sound great.:)

wingnut4772

audiobliss wrote:

Ok, so far we have recommendations for Audioquest, Signal Cable, MIT, Guerilla Audio, Cables to Go, Blue Jeans Cable, Cobalt Cable, and PS Audio. What are some other good speaker cable manufacturers worth researching?

Also, is it usually better to get a 'bi-amp' cable or just two pairs if you're bi-amping? I would rather have the two runs for flexibility and perhaps better resell value, but it'd be a lot cheaper just to get a 'bi-amp version'.

I'd appreciate any input!

Don't forget the DH Labs Q10. I can not stress enough how awesome they are and they are not that expensive.

Drumingman

I use AR Pro 12 guage. I use 2 EQ's and all the ch that I have to make my R series sound as Musical as possible and they sound great.

About having it sound as the engineeer wanting me to hear it. My hearing is probally not the excact same as that guys and he didn't mix it throught R series speakers and HK products. I bet he didn't mix it through any Polk products. Also the acoustics in your room and mine are not exactly the mix down room. Yes, simple direct signals to your speakers are the best chain to have but there are others considerations such as the ones mentioned above and many more. While I agree that in speaker cables, bigger is better, the point of cost for performance at a certain level is different in all equipment used. I think the most important factor, as was related in a article a while back, is the sound source. A crappy recording will sound crappy on the best equipment, and a great recording will make an entry level system, like mine, sound great.:)

Toka78

Cobalt are the way to go if you want something that looks as good as it sounds. Go with Blue Jeans (the 5T00UP 10AWG) if you want the same performance at a much better price (the Cobalt and BJC are essentially exactly the same inside...the Cobalt adds a more attractive outer casing as well as the lifetime exchange policy. Performance wise, they are the same). Both use Belden cable, which is the industry standard, and more than likely is what was used when whatever you are listening to was recorded.

If you want to impress audiophools by all means go out and get AudioQuest or Stealth or whatever the flavor of the month happens to be. They can act as fine tone controls to compensate for other shortcomings (like rolling off grainy SS amps), but at best, they will not sound any better. Likely, they suffer from some poor/misguided design, and you are merely paying for their marketing department/advertising expenses. This has been proven over and over again.