WMA lossless vs MP3 320

Ruin

Ok, maybe I am warped, but I would think that lossless should sound exactly like the original. Now that I have an ethernet enabled receiver I am thinking about re-ripping all my CDs to the best quality I can short of WAV. To use the receiver to play them I have to use MP3 or WMA.
So I grab a CD, and I rip it in WMA, then I rip it in 320bit MP3. I have the CD in my drive. Playing back the same section of the music one after another in all three formats, I swear the 320bit MP3 sounds closer to the original than the WMA lossless! WTF?? WMA lossless seems flat somehow. It is missing subtle overtones or something. Now this makes no sense to me. I though the problem with MP3 is that encoders sort of guess what parts of the sound they can throw away with the least affect on the listening experience and modify that based on the quality settings you choose. Lossless is supposed to throw away nothing! It should sound exactly the same!

I am nuts??

Ruin

bknauss

Make sure your encoder isn't **** something up. I had issues years ago with Nero copying CDs... it had a preset to normalize the entire CD, thus killing any of the dynamics.

Ruin

Thanks. There is really nothing to set in the WMA lossless encoder. Its, um, supposedly lossless.

Ruin

Mjr7531

It's mathematically lossless. It doesn't keep everything of course, otherwise the bitrate would stay the same, however, it keeps a heck of a lot more than MP3s.

szhleppy

Ruin wrote:

I am nuts??

Ruin

Yes.

Seriously though...I recently went through the same issue. My household has 1 - Pioneer Inno (XM/MP3) and 1 - iPod. So how do I rip my CD's??? flac.

Flac files sound great on Winamp through my PC system, but the format requires another format change to get to my Inno, and a plug-in isn't available to get the tunes to the iPod (I haven't checked for an update lately). Before you spend another second ripping your cd's, ask yourself why you need a digital copy on your PC.

If it is simply to have everything in one library, don't bother. You will still want to grab the CD/vinyl to check out the packaging/lyrics/etc. while you are listenting. If it is to download to your digital player while taking a run...it doesn't matter which format sounds best!!!! Just pick the format that sounds decent and is compatible with every portable player in your house. Critical listening belongs in the home system with the original format you purchased.

heiney9

I've said it a hundred times before. The best process for ripping lossless info is as follows.

Use EAC (Exact Audio Copy) as the ripping program and then convert to FLAC files. This is the most accurate (exact bit copy) method and the FLAC is bit perfect as well. Anything else just doesn't seem to work as well.........as you are finding out.

And guess what each of these programs are free and work wonderfully. You also have to make sure you have playing software that doesn't f*** with the output. Players like WINAMP or other MS default players don't produce true bit perfect output, they tend to use codecs/plugin which alter the signal. WMA is a Microsoft product so it's handicapped from the get go . Seriously it's Microsoft, 'nuff said.

I use FOOBAR to play FLAC files. It has Kernel Streaming capabilities which sends a direct unaltered digital stream to my DAC. Many players process the info before outputting it, thus altering the end sound. You also have to keep in mind if you are using certain soundcards they need to support Kernel streaming as well because there can be an issue with the soundcard doing it's own processing of the signal.

Lot's of crap gets in the way when using the computer as the source and you have to understand how certain hardware and software affect the audio signal.

Chances are it's a combo of a few different things giving you the impression one sounds better than the other.

FWIW

H9

Ruin

my problem is that I am not using an HTPC. I will just be allowing the AVR to connect to my music server via its ethernet port. It will only process MP3 or WMA so I have those two to choose from.

I did some further testing last night making absolutely sure that I had no EQ or DSP effects on in any player, and I ripped 4 CDS in 320bit MPP3 and WMA lossless, then tested them vs the CD. I did one classical, one jazz, one blues, and one rock. On 3 of the 4 it was really hard to hear any difference at all. The rock CD actually showed the largest difference amongst the formats.

I actually already have my entire collection ripped as 256bit MP3s sitting on a NAS device so that any computer in the house can access the music. I just know that once I start playing these through my main system I am going to want a lossless format. The conveniece of having all the music available, with the ability to quickly grab a single song or playlist is just too great to pass up. Sure, for serious listening sessions I am going to grab the original CD, or DVD-A, or SACD but if I am just listening to background music while playing cards or something then I don't really need the original disk.

Another issue is that I have CDs dating back to 1984 that have issues. The metal layer has not held up as well as they thought it would and I have some CDs that are showing pops and clicks due to actuall deteriation of the metal layer. No external damage to them at all. So, I would just as soon have a good archive copy of these before they deteriorate any further.

Thanks for the responses.

Ruin

seo

Use EAC as Heiney suggests for the old CD's with issues. EAC can convert to MP3's with the LAME encoder I believe

heiney9

I'd say go with whatever format gives you the best results and the least amount of compromise. There are ways to work lossles FLAC into the mix, you just need more HD space.

H9

Ruin

Thanks for all the advice. The issue with FLAC is that my receiver won't decode it. Sure, I could have it run on a computer and output to the receiver, but that is not the route I am striving for at the moment.

I am just going to keep testing high quality, 320bit MP3s using various encoders against WMA lossless and the original CD and see what sounds the best compared to the CD.

I also want to be carefull about having an archive that could end up unsuported in the future if FLAC falls by the wayside.

Ruin