classical question?

opus

I don't listen to alot of classical music. I really like it but it is just too overwhelming to jump in head first and start buying music when there is just so much out there and all the names and different symphonies confuse me.:o Pretty stupid right?

Well on to my question. I was watching the fireworks in D.C. and they were playing the 1812 Overture. This is the only classical cd I own. I thought it sounded different. My question is does the same piece of music sound different when played by different people. I'm not really talking the obvious differences when two people play the same note but do different conductors arrange a piece of work to their vision. Are they faithful to the sheet music or do they "improvise" for lack of a better term? Will the Boston Symphony and the Royal Philharmonic play a Beethoven selection the same?

thanks kevin:)

TroyD

It's sort of like....well, let's say you take a song, one band will interpret it different from another. You dig?

BDT

opus

Yea I dig. I guess that makes sense. I just thought that some things would be sacred and not open to interpretation. thanks

cfrizz

The only thing that the Boston Pops did last night was shorten the piece. Which is common for the 4th concert. Every once & a while if they have a choral group, they will have them sing the verses that should be sung.

dorokusai

Kevin - Do you have a record player?

opus

dorokusai wrote:

Kevin - Do you have a record player?

I'm currently researching turntables and such. It will be a near future upgrade:)

dorokusai

I'll set aside some vinyl for you, free of charge, to get you started. Email me your addy... dorokusai@comcast.net

opus

email sent. thanks:)

dorokusai

Email rcv'd...email sent...vinyl on the way.

Ray Zenz

when you buy a peice of music...there is not exactly a set of rules...there is more of a set of suggestions...as in what tempo to play at what measure and of course the suggestions of the # of players, like there should be 4 trumpet players, 5 clarinets, 6 flutes, 3 euphoniums, etc. well of course the band would be more diverse and for more sound they would have more players or however the director wants it. And im sure your talking about the music itself sounding different and not like the sound of the music because of course the acustics of where the CD was recorded and where you heard band playing the overture was different...you can also think of it this way...do all national anthems(i mean this as in the "star spangled banner") sound the same?..no because different arrangements have been made over the years, and a big reason is that they are in different keys. Some in the key of Eb and some in Bb and some others.

Different Orchestras dont improvise, it isnt legal...

They are being faithful to the sheet of music but everyone wants their own style to the peice of music..like how loud to play accent marks and how loud or fast to cresendo...

all versions of the song give credit to the original composer but it can be arranged by differnet people, my friends have done this and its legal with permission.

my band last year wanted to march to a piece of concert music, but the composers and arrangers (one of which being tito puente) wouldnt give us the rights to march to it...

the music world is complicated and there are rules you have to follow

dorokusai

I will echo what Ray is saying, perhaps more clearly(No Offense Ray)...in that there are 100 versions of Beethoven X in X Minor/Major.

Classical is an odd genre as most of the music is simply interpretation of the original composition. This is good in a way, in that you get the composer/ensemble's rendition of that particular piece. The folks that enjoy classical music will debate individual performances just like you would the Redbook vs SACD version of Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms for example.

What version is better is purely subjective.

John K.

Kevin, a conductor will rarely change notes that are in the score or add some on his own, although even that happens sometimes. Usually what makes different performances of the same composition sound different(besides differences in the sound quality)is changes the conductor makes in the tempos that are indicated by the composer and by bringing the various sections of the orchestra either out more loudly or more softly. They tell about one time when conductor Leopold Stokowski was rehearsing a composition and during a pause one of the players commented that the tempo Stokowski was adopting was a lot different than what was printed in the score. Stokowski told them: "Gentlemen, when we're all dead and playing in hell, there will be a giant metronome beating there which we won't be allowed to deviate from in the slightest. That will be the hell of it".

I have about a thousand classical CDs and there are some favorite compositions that I have a half dozen different performances of; some collectors have dozens of examples of their favorites. Each is different enough to give a little different sense of enjoyment.

As far as the 1812 from D.C., I also watched and I believe that Carol is correct when she notes that the difference is that it was shortened for TV. A complete 1812 runs about 14-15 minutes, and it's likely that the one you have is about that long.

Yes, you certainly do need more classical CDs and I'll suggest some of my favorites that are colorful and should appeal to most: The Planets ; Slavonic Dances ; Daphnis et Chloe ; a Stravinsky collection ; a Gershwin collection .

dorokusai

I can't argue with John's comments and will include a copy of Holst: The Planets.

George Grand

Send him the Boston Symphony version if you can. The industry standard.

opus

Thanks for the replies everyone it is much clearer now.

pfenton

That's an interesting question you pose regarding interpretation of classical music by various conductors. I suppose the real question is, what makes a great conductor?

The music the composer writes is the "script," just as an author writes a script for an actor to perform in a play. We know various actors bring to the script their own personality. Some of us favor one actor's interpretation of Hamlet, for example, over an others. But, no matter who the actor of a serious work like Hamlet is, none of them are changing the words, or the script.

The same is true of classical music. The composer writes the script, with his/her intentions written into the score. In classical music, unless it is edited, the crescendos, decrescendos, and other dynamic markings, as well as tempo indications, are, unlike Shakespeare's works, indicated by the composer. They are not merely suggestions, and a great composer will typically adhere to them to render an authentic performance.

But the personality of the conductor will have an influence on the performance, even when following the intent of the composer. He/she may conduct a little faster or slower, make one section louder than another because they believe that melodic line to be more significant. Or the acoustics may be different, especially for an outdoor performance, as in DC.

It's the sign of a good listener that they hear the differences between performing groups. But onto an equally important question: What to add to your CD collection besides the 1812 Overture?

During the 4th of July celebration at DC, they played music by all American composers. You might want to buy something by Aaron Copland, "Apalachian Spring," George Gershwin, "An American In Paris" or "Rhapsody in Blue," Leonard Bernstein, "Candide." For the holidays, try "The Nutcracker" by Tchaikovsky. Of course, he's not American!

If you liked the 1812 Overture, I think you'll like all of the above. Good luck!

Ray Zenz

dorokusai wrote:

I will echo what Ray is saying, perhaps more clearly(No Offense Ray)...in that there are 100 versions of Beethoven X in X Minor/Major.

yea no problem..i needed someone to make my words clearer...sorry i dont know the exact terms for things(...i only just turned 17...)

Yes i also recommend bernstien and tchaikovsky...and take a look into Godeke or however you spell it..

reeltrouble1

Ray are you a Geek!!!!!

ha,,,,,,that is great listening to real music, I thoroughly commend you as a former Chi-towner myself, graduate from a South Side High School and Chicago Circle alumni.

I have found it takes time to listen to classical, a sort of smoking jacket experience, its seems as if the different chordal modes of the chosen scale are thoroughly developed, with the ever present building and releasing of tension present in music forms, thereby, requiring an active sort of listening, at least that's the way it is for me.

I suppose I would say classical is the basis for progressive modern music. I would suspect each listener's viseral responce to be unique to a piece based upon their mind's perception of a descriptive title if present and the sound that follows as played by the artist, overseen by the conducter, within that unique environment's space topped off by the quality of recording equipment and skill of an engineer. It would follow that each recording will contain differences within a musical piece's written notation when replayed on a unique home audio system.

But then that's what the hobby is all about, which is rather Grand.

RT1

Willow

One that I might add which I love is Les Pr

bikezappa

Opus

I agree with every said in these posts. If I were to start listening to classical music I would get a high quality tuner and some rabbit ears for an antenna and listen to a NPR Classical music station. In Boston we are lucky to have WHRB 93.5 and WGBH 89.9.

Have fun.

Ray Zenz

reeltrouble1 wrote:

Ray are you a Geek!!!!!

well to answer your question/ comment....im not a geek, i actually have alot of friends and i have a life, play baseball tennis and volleyball and im into bowling and im in many many clubs..and i have 3 jobs..and i drive a camaro and a bronco II...my name is actually mike but i like raisins, hence "ray zenz"...ill be a senior in high school and i live more south in the joliet area. Im in band though and ill be drum major for the second year straight. This is just because of my love of music...trumpet is my main instrument but i used to be a percussionist and also play a little french horn and baritone...band kids are accepted at my school and arent considered geeks because our sports teams have been doin worse and worse each year and the band is the only orginazation thats bringing home trophies..

oh and listening to the radio is a good idea..

and i dont look like a geek...

John K.

Mike, it sounds like you're doing just great! I was also in the marching band in school and played clarinet in the school orchestras. This helped me get an interest in great music at an early age and I learned of the musical treasures waiting for us out there if we'll just give a listen. Enjoy.

For those who don't have classical stations within listening distance, or even for those who do, this classical webcast site has a great listing of classical stations in the U.S. and all over the world which stream their broadcasts over the internet. The audio quality isn't the greatest, of course, but the choice of music is great. For example, the BBC Proms from London begins July 14 and is carried by BBC Radio 3 live and with the programs available for repeat listening for a week.

opus

I sure appreciate all the in depth posts and insights. I look forward to exploring some great music in the future. I do like to watch the BBC Proms on HDnet. If anybody could recommend some high energy selections I will check them out. I'm not a real big fan of the 20 minute piccolo solo:)


Have a great weekend......kevin

John K.

Kevin, the CDs that I linked in my first reply to you would probably fall into what you call "high energy", although nearly all classical compositions have quiet passages in them at some point. Those items are on sale at Tower, so why not whip out that credit card and enjoy some of the great music that's available to you?

bert26

I would recommend any of Beethoven's symphonies. My favorite is the 9th, but 3, 5, and 7 are great also.

Your local library may also be a great low cost option to try out several different composers without risk.

Good luck in your quest!

Chris

George Grand

It appears the progression from rock/jazz to classical always begins with, "Somebody recommend or tell me what the powerful, BOMBASTIC stuff is." Natural progression.

Get "The Planets" and take a ride on "Jupiter". You'll recognize it because it's all over the place now.

All the "Hungarian Rhapsodies" by Franz Liszt will also be familiar to you if you watched cartoons when you grew up.

Stravinsky's "Firebird" is no slouch either.

You get your rocks off with all the bombastic stuff and then you start branching out again.

I am presently looking for stuff by a French guy named Cantaloube, "Songs of the Auverne" or something like that. There's a piece called "Baillero" sung by Kiri Te Kanawa, It has this effect on me. I get goosebumps, slack jawed, teary-eyed, and completely immobile. Can't move an inch while she's singing.Try it. That kind of **** doesn't happen with rock.

gregure

Opus,

Getting into classical is a big ordeal, especially if you really want to explore. Having a few CD's around for relaxation is nice, but if you get the bug, you may find in a few years you have 500 CD's.

My recommendation: so many composers have their own characteristics and sound worlds, and it is difficult to know what you'll be engaged by, and what will reach you emotionally. I would suggest listening to some classical radio stations in your area or online, and pay attention to what pieces of music are playing. That way you can expose yourself to more, and find out what you like. Step two would be to buy yourself a copy of The Penguin Guide to Compact Discs and DVDs. This book is a great guide to the better recordings of certain pieces of music, edited by three music lovers so you tend to get a relatively balanced opinion. They take into account performance, quality of recorded sound and price. It's really a great way to find a good recording of a piece of music you're trying to get.

That said, you may also find you develop a taste for recordings from a particular conductor or orchestra. I probably own more recordings made by Herbert von Karajan and the Berlin Philharmonic than any other conductor, and I definitely think the Berlin Phil is the best sounding orchestra I've ever heard. I also love the Vienna Philharmonic, the Philharmonia and most of the other orchestras of England which tend to all be stellar. It's also great to look for new, modern recordings, as an excellent recording can go a long way as well.

Here's a few of the pieces that got me going, before really diving in:

Rimsky-Korsakov: Sheherazade
Richard Strauss: Also Sprach Zarathustra
Holst: The Planets (Get the John Eliot Gardiner/Philharmonia recording on Deutsche Grammophone)
Beethoven: Complete Symphonies
Dvorak: Symphony 9 "From the New World"
Debussy: La Mer and Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun
Mahler: Symphonies 1 and 2
Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto 1, Symphonies 4-6 (Karajan and the BPO 2 discs for the price of one), Swan Lake
Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis, Five Variants of Dives and Lazarus, and the Lark Ascending.

Those are just a few of my favorites that I discovered early on. The rest came later. You'll find you may have certain tastes that run toward Russian, French, German or American. Who knows? Nationalities tend to have a lot of similarities in types of sound and structure.

Happy listening. One warning, though. Once you start listening to a lot of classical, you'll become much pickier about the quality of your music system.

John K.

George, I see your comments about Canteloube's Songs of the Auvergne and certainly agree. What's probably the most beautiful vocal CD that I(or maybe anyone)have includes the Bailero(a love song), Pastourelle, Brezairola(lullaby)and four other Auvergne selections. It concludes with the best Rachmaninoff Vocalise that I've ever heard. Anna Moffo sings and vocalizes with Stokowski and his orchestra and in my view gives a more sensuous, moving performance than does Te Kanawa. Canteloube composed over forty of the songs and the most complete selection is found on a two-disc set by Natania Davrath, but Moffo is far superior in the favorite selections included on her recording.

The CD I've had for about ten years appears not to be available, but recently I ordered from this source(click on Switch to English at the top, if necessary), which also sells through Amazon, to give as a gift. It arrived quickly(they ship from Brooklyn) and was of good quality, so I'd suggest that you don't hesitate to get it, since this is stunningly beautiful.