Better Sound with NO Center Speaker!?!?!?
Well my new 42" LCD monitor was delivered Monday, and as I was rewiring and moving the existing equipment around, I noticed that I didnt have a place to put my center channel speaker (CS245i). So until I could find a shelf with the right dimensions, I decided to disconnect it for the time being, running the center information through my front RTi10 towers.
After setting up the monitor, and going through all of the calibrations on the DVE dvd, I decided to test the picture quality by popping in LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring. I specifically wanted to see all of the bright happy colors of the Shire in the beginning, and the party scene, but wound up watching the whole movie while I was working in the room.
Anyway, back to the point, the sound was MUCH (and I do mean MUCH!) better coming through the rti10s than the cs245i. I was watching the movie at -45db and the sound was better than when I normally watch movies at -35db. And that is mostly to hear the dialogue correctly. So my question is, will upgrading to the CSi5 provide better sound than leaving the center channel sound routed to the RTi10s? I can't go back to the csi245 after hearing the difference - and why spend the extra $ for a more expensive center channel speaker if it doesnt improve the sound over the towers?
By the way - the Westinghouse 42" LCD monitor is excellent - I am totally satisfied with my purchase.
After setting up the monitor, and going through all of the calibrations on the DVE dvd, I decided to test the picture quality by popping in LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring. I specifically wanted to see all of the bright happy colors of the Shire in the beginning, and the party scene, but wound up watching the whole movie while I was working in the room.
Anyway, back to the point, the sound was MUCH (and I do mean MUCH!) better coming through the rti10s than the cs245i. I was watching the movie at -45db and the sound was better than when I normally watch movies at -35db. And that is mostly to hear the dialogue correctly. So my question is, will upgrading to the CSi5 provide better sound than leaving the center channel sound routed to the RTi10s? I can't go back to the csi245 after hearing the difference - and why spend the extra $ for a more expensive center channel speaker if it doesnt improve the sound over the towers?
By the way - the Westinghouse 42" LCD monitor is excellent - I am totally satisfied with my purchase.
Post edited by myork on
Comments
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Probably. First, the 245i isn't the optimum match for your fronts. Secondly, the sound is great, yeah, unless you're out of the sweet spot. Then you'll get loading. Third, the 5 is the match, will have better output, and your fronts can do as they are supposed to.
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I guarantee you'll be happier with the CSi5 over no center or the 245i. Spend the coinage and if you don't agree in a couple weeks, return it. Everyone these days has at least a 30 day guarantee.Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.
Home Setup: Sony VPL-VW85 Projo, 92" Stewart Firehawk, Pioneer Elite SC-65, PS3, RTi12 fronts, CSi5, FXi6 rears, RTi6 surround backs, RTi4 height, MFW-15 Subwoofer.
Car Setup: OEM Radio, RF 360.2v2, Polk SR6500 quad amped off 4 Xtant 1.1 100w mono amps, Xtant 6.1 to run an eD 13av.2, all Stinger wiring and Raammat deadener. -
This is a YMMV thing, for my situation I also decided against a center channel for movies. My first speaker setup was a 5.1 Ascend/Hsu set, with the 340 horizontal center matched to 340 fronts. I had to put the 340c below my TV on the stand's top shelf. This is not ideal - ideally a center would be identical to the fronts and located where the TV sits but that's not possible. There was not quite enough room to angle it up as much as it should have been. Sounded terrible - the front stage was totally disjointed. Furthermore, I learned that I absolutely hated ProLogic II for 2ch sources. Took the center out and everything sounded much better. Of course with only 2 fronts there is a very small and defined sweet spot - I normally sit dead center and none of my guests are as picky as I
Eventually removed the surrounds and sub in a quest to upgrade the front 2 as much as possible. A bit unorthodox, but there's less clutter, I'm happier with the sound this way (and MUCH happier for music), and that's all that matters
Tannoy Dimension TD10, SOTA Star Sapphire, Heathkit W4A's, McIntosh MC2100, Eddie-Current Zana Deux, Singlepower SDS, Sennheiser HD650, Audio-Technica L3000, Sony Qualia 010 -
Get the Csi-5.HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub
"God grooves with tubes." -
I went the same route as you,2 channel,no center.I miss my surrounds
and am currently looking for some.Legacy makes anything you want,and I
just missed a set of focus surrounds,which were the top half of a focus speaker.Try and nab a legacy center off the 'gon for better matching.
Personally,I don't miss my center and music is way better without it.
When you have a combo rig,music and HT,it's all about finding that happy
median between the two.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Well I think I found a happy medium for my system. Since adding a CJ tube preamp into the mix I am extremely pleased. With my NAD T773 receiver, OPPO player thru DVI, the CJ in HT pass, & the VanAlstine OmegaStar powering my mains, I'm all set for movies. I never tried HT w/o the center but it sounds like I have to give it a try & see how it sounds. When it's time for 2 channel listening the CJ goes into CD mode, everything else goes off but the VanAlstine, & at present I am using a HK DVD22 as my CD player. Talk about great sounding music!!! I will be auditioning 2 Consonance CD players shortly, the CD120 & the CD120 Linear. Then the bar will be raised another notch."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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Your still a dog man.Again,congrats on that CJ pre.As soon as some coin is free,I will be looking in that direction.As for the center,doesn't hurt to give it a try.Good luck to you....DOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I just got a 42" LCD too! I'm using a pair of RTI10's with a Paradigm cc370 for a center(just got this center). The bigger center helped a lot.
Note: Circuit City sells a universal adjustable center speaker shelf for about $40."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
myork wrote:Better Sound with NO Center Speaker!?!?!?
I felt the same way when I had my LS50/CS350 setup. The CS350 was no slouch either. If your mains image properly the center information should image to the center anyway. I think in many of the setups out there the center is probably expendable.2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones -
bah...you don't need no stinkin' surrounds. 2-channel forever.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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it's not the sound quality of the cs245i you're upset with- it's the fact that you prefer a phantom center channel.
Seems like to me that getting the csi5 will not make you happier. And all the while you're $350-$400 out.
Sell the cs245i and revel in the 10's if that's what sounds good to you. There's no rule that states you have to have a center channel. -
I think it is the sound quality of the cs245i that is the issue - at least as it compares to the rti10s. I had always noticed that when I was watching a movie, that the overall soundtrack was louder than the dialogue - forcing me to turn up the volume to hear the dialogue adequately. When I removed the center speaker, the sound was much more evenly matched. The sound was fuller and more detailed, which I guess should be a given considering the bigger mids and woofers.
I knew the cs245i was not a perfect match for the rti10s, but I figured that since the only real difference was the tweeter, it would be close enough. And I wasnt gonna pass up the deals at Circuit City when they were liquidating stock of the RT line a few years back.
I guess the only way to know for sure is to get a bigger center and see if the sound improves or not over the phantom center.
The two things I do know for sure is that there will be a cs245i for sale in the flea market soon. The other is that I didnt have room for the smaller center, I am going to be hard pressed to figure out where such a large center will be placed. -
I'm making a new rule.. 2 channel aint surround sound.. you need a center to call it surround dangit!! or what ever sounds good to ya
MY HT RIG:
Sherwood p-965
Sherwood sd871 dvd
Rotel 1075 amp x5
LSI15 mains
LsiC center
LSIfx surround backs
Lsi7 side surrounds
SVS pb12/plus2
2 Channel Rig:
nad 1020 Pre-amp
Rotel 1080 stereo amp
Polk sda 2B
kenwood grunt Tuner
realistic lab 450 TT
Signal cable IC -
Get the CSi5, otherwise you're just watching movies in Stereo. For a lot of movies the sound is 40% of the film. Of course this won't be the case for films that rely almost completely on dialouge, but those preaching that you don't need surround to experience a movie completely are wrong! They spend all of that money on mixing sound for a reason, enjoy it!
