Any attorney's in the house?

PolkThug

brettw22 wrote:

Just when I thought I was going to be done and my hands washed of these people, they pull this..........it's laffably amazing to me at this point. The signed agreement is being Overnighted tomorrow to them and that's the first step.

Good. The next couple days are important. Don't open any email from them or accept any letters from them.

PolkThug

On last Monday or Friday, after discussing the terms of the severance package, did you ever make a statement to the affect of "I accept"?

brettw22

No, because Monday was just a meeting notification, and Friday was just going over the info in the packet (which was a faxed version of what I was getting delivered by FedEx. The deal is to review it, take up to 45 days and return it to them signed as acceptance. I told her today that I had the form signed and was returning it to her today when she told me there would be no point.

amulford

I wouldn't push for confirmation of anything. From now on all communication correspondence should be written and mailed regular and registered mail, RRR.

The fact you have a specific package says it's valid. Whether you meet their "criteria" sounds like BS, and you'll probably need to talk to an attorney.

amulford

And P-thuggy is right, don't open anything...

PolkThug

When you receive an offer by mail, mailing your acceptance seals the deal.

You'll have to check with specific Illinois contract law if the mailed offer can be revoked by phone. That's what this really comes down to.

If you receive mail from them revoking the offer before you get your acceptance mailed out then you are SOL (that's why I said don't accept anything from them).

szhleppy

Ed Zachery. Do not discuss anything with them directly.

Wish you the best on this one. Hopefully they were just **** with you and will back down when you call their bluff.

brettw22

I won't be accepting any certified/FedEx/UPS mailings from them from this point on. They have no way of verifying that I have received anything if they send it via typical USPS First Class.

mrbigbluelight

brettw22 wrote:

I won't be accepting any certified/FedEx/UPS mailings from them from this point on. They have no way of verifying that I have received anything if they send it via typical USPS First Class.

an item is mailed via USPS 1st Class Mail.

I know the IRS thinks this way.

The advice given regarding no more direct communication is good: have NONE from this point forward.

Rule of thumb at this point is this: YOU are not going to convince them of their errors at this point. Your lawyer is a different matter, though.

So, at my normal fee of $250/hour, slice me off a piece of $37.50 for this advice.

brettw22

Regardless, they'll have acceptance in their hands before I'll have anything from them.

danger boy

brettw22 wrote:

She's saying because the two stipulations are that the new job offered has to be over 50 miles away and that the new offer would have to be less than 80% of my current salary.

is this stardard OP for severance packages? this sounds fishy to me right there.. red flag went off when i read this part.

faster100

so you would have to go from say 60K a year to less then 12K to be able to get severence? Holy **** less then 80% :rolleyes:

PolkThug

faster100 wrote:

so you would have to go from say 60K a year to less then 48K to be able to get severence? Holy **** less then 80% :rolleyes:

fixed!;)

kingtut

Go to your state's labor department and file a claim. It's free, and they will adjudicate the matter.

ohskigod

kingtut wrote:

Go to your state's labor department and file a claim. It's free, and they will adjudicate the matter.

BINGO, at least bounce it off them, you will most likely find them very helpful.

brettw22

Talked to a friend of mine (ex co-worker) and he said that my old boss told him that my severance offer is no longer valid. I'd already told my friend that, but find it amazing how my boss feel's it's appropriate for him to discuss my package (haha) with someone else.

danger boy

You're right Brett.. that's not cool. and you may have legal recourse there as well. worth checking into. it's unfortunate that you will probably have to hire a lawyer (not that attorneys are bad of course), but that it may have to come to that.

Are they treating other former employees the same way as you?

brettw22

Everyone else in my department decided to take the jobs and every one of them is below satisfied with their decision. I don't at all regret not taking the job because the jist of it was the job had dominated every aspect of my life and any sort of life away from work was dead. I'm looking to change that, trust.

I did send off the acceptance letter, and we'll see what they have to say. There are statements in the letter that stipulate that I waive all rights to suing them by signing the agreement, and that if the company deems me as violating any terms of the agreement they can cease payments or carrying out the terms of the agreement and can then the company has the right to recover any amounts paid under the agreement (monetary and health benefits, etc).

None of that is ultimately valid though if they opt to not pay the amount that they stipulate is to be paid for consideration of those statements, or if they send me a letter back indicating that I don't qualify for a severance package.

Kris Siegel

I'd say get a lawyer and discuss the issue. It sounds like you have legal recourse because they told you that you qualified for the package and now they're saying you don't.

You'll need a laywer to take a look at that acceptance letter anyway as it sounds like signing it may protect them.

brettw22

It only really protects them if they honor it by paying me the severance. If they choose to decline paying me, the severance stipulations are invalid because they've given no monetary payment binding me to the terms.

wallstreet

I'd go back to work at your discounted salary and look for another job. Regardless of the pain and insult, you are always better off looking for a job while you have one. Take it from me, I've had 12 jobs in the last 14 years. But then again, I'm a computer contractor.

brettw22

I will not go back to work for them. I'm grateful that the agreement stipulates I have to stay away for at least 6 months. I will far exceed that.

shack

Played golf this afternoon with a lawyer buddy of mine and posed the question to him. There are several issues he brought up. How was the severance offer actually made? Verbally? If so and the paperwork was just the formalizing of the verbal offer then they may be able to recind verbally. If the offer was written and delivered by mail then if you accepted the offer by like method (ie signed and in the mail) BEFORE they contacted you to recind the offer they MAY be on the hook for the package. If not (and from your post this appears to be the case - they told you the deal was cancelled before you actually mailed it) then there may be an issue to decide if a written offfer of a severnce package can be recinded verbally. He seemed to think that the timing is everything. IF you had the deal sent back to them by registered mail before they contacted you, there would be a much better case. His advice is as many have said...don't assume anything...get yourself in front of a competent contract lawyer and lay it out exactly how it occured (exact timeline - no exagerating or altering the sequence of events) and see what he says. Often times a simple letter from an attorney will get them to follow through or at least get you an indication as to whether they are bluffing or serious. Anyway...good luck.

brettw22

Thanks Shack.....The formal offer was done via mail and is what was signed for on Tuesday morning. The initial convo was where I was told that I would be given a severance package and put on the list of employees to sever. The meeting on the 23rd was just to go over the basics of the overall package (Cobra forms to fill out, pamphlets to read, 401k handling, and FAQ's). There were copies of what the dollar amounts would be and of the actual offer, but those specifics weren't verbally discussed, but rather I was told that I'd get the actual package when I arrived home Friday afternoon/evening. The only reason I didn't get it then was that I was in the office until 9pm. I missed FedEx on Monday and was there Tuesday to accept. I signed for the package, had the severance signed, and it was after I received it Tuesday morning that I was called and told that they didn't think I qualified for it in the first place. I got the offer sent off on Wednesday via FedEx Overnight and they received it in Benefits this afternoon (shuffled through the departments for a day).

I think it all boils down to them flat out saying I qualify, arranging my last day, me being done with work, and them trying to rescind something they initiated that resulted in my leaving, a decision that was 100% based on their information. Regardless of the technicality of the timeline, they decided what my last day was based on the severance date/letter and I don't see how they can call the next week and pretend that the initial conversation, meeting appointment, actual meeting, and the package being sent were all just one big oops.

brettw22

Just got a call from the VP of HR and after her discussions with the Legal department they're going to make an exception and pay my severance package due to "a misunderstanding"......

A check should be cut tomorrow and to me by mid next week. I'd like to think it's because they want to honor their promise, but would you?

wallstreet

Who cares why. Your golden.

DarqueKnight

brettw22 wrote:

I'd like to think it's because they want to honor their promise, but would you?

I'd like to think that they considered the cost of litigation and decided that it was more cost (and time) effective to pay you.

brettw22

The care part is that they've gotten me to the point where when there's a positive presented, you have to be suspicious of what's following behind it.

PolkThug

brettw22 wrote:

The care part is that they've gotten me to the point where when there's a positive presented, you have to be suspicious of what's following behind it.

You have to look out for #1, nobody else will. Congrats!

disneyjoe7

Overall sounds sweet, glad to hear it.