SVS sub for a difficult room

bdupuy

Problem: My listening area is about 300 Sq.ft., but it opens up into a kitchen (over a bar) and into a breakfast area, so that altogether it could measure up to 600 sq.ft. The ceiling height is 10' everywhere. There is no usable corner in the listening area. I have identified 2 possible locations for a single SVS PC+ 20-39 against a wall, but one is near a corner fireplace opening and the other is near a large hallway entrance. SVS is not very encouraging that this speaker will have satisfactory loudness in my setting and strongly encourages me to go with a 2 speaker PB model. But I cannot identify ANY suitable location for one of these. Is there another better choice? I have been doing without a sub for a long time because of uncertainties like this. My use is probably 80% HT and 20% music.

Any advice?

PolkThug

Wow! Your listening area is bigger than my whole house. Ever thought about a dedicated theater room in the basement?

unc2701

Yeah, I'm thinking you mean cubic feet, but I could be wrong.

bdupuy

Sorry no basement, but that would be a great idea!

bdupuy

Right you are. I meant cu.ft. Just divide by 10 to get sq.ft.

unc2701

Get the big 'un. The cost difference isn't that bad, and that's a huge space; going smaller and adding another sub if it's not loud enough is an option, but multiple subs can get ugly w/ phase cancelations.

wallstreet

I've got a 25-31 in a 375sq ft room with no problems. I've even got one port plugged to tune to 20hz.

Sthrndream

SVS will suggest to you that if you have anywhere between a 2700 to 4000 ft cubed room--i.e opening to another room--you need a +2 type of sub. A pb12 +2 for example. THe problem is standing waves and how they travel through your open areas. You really need some type of corner for the wave to bounce and travel effectively for that large an area. Bottom Line: Call SVS and fax them a sketch of your room, they will give the BEST advice.

Hope this helps!:D

bdupuy

Going to a 25-31 was one option I considered, since it it louder than the 20-39. But if you plug it to tune to 20Hz, is that still the case?

bdupuy

My problem with the PB12/2 is not the cost. It is the footprint of the thing. I've just go no place to put it. The cylinder is easier to find a place for.

janmike

I have approx. 270 sq. ft. and the PB12-PLUS actaully seems to disappear in the corner. People have come in and I have to draw their attention to the corner. It seems big right out of the box, but blends in with the furniture. My opinion is the cylinder would stand out more even though the footprint is smaller, just because of the shape. Good Luck.

Sthrndream

not louder but deeper. and deeper is not louder. btw welcome to the forum

bdupuy

Thanks to everyone for your help. I have reconsidered the situation and found a spot for the PB12-NSD/2, which is still within my budget. It will be positioned along the middle of a 10' wall that is bounded by a corner fireplace on one end and a hallway on the other (Not ideal, I know). The long side of the speaker will be flush against the wall.

All of the flooring in the listening and adjacent areas are wood glued onto concrete slab. There are also some area rugs that are not very thick. I'm thinking that will be a good surface not to introduce room effects. Right?

I did want to use the Plus drivers, but that pushes the price up by $300, and something I read on another thread suggested that the new NSD driver is much closer to the Plus drivers than the ISD was. I will need to run the signal cable up one wall into the attic and over and down through another wall, but we can do it.

wallstreet

bdupuy wrote:

Going to a 25-31 was one option I considered, since it it louder than the 20-39. But if you plug it to tune to 20Hz, is that still the case?

Yep, you lose some output when plugging ports. With no ports plugged, I tuned the sub, and the gain was set to 9:00 (12 is midway, 3 is 3/4). With one port plugged, the gain is set halfway between 9 and 10. The sub isn't even sweating when correctly tuned.

HBombToo

Your house sounds very similar to the one I lived in when I purchased the dual CS+. With the help of a a forum member (Dr. Spec), I found the best position was on each side of my 57" HDEF. That was a purchase that I'm sill amazed by after about 4 years or so...

HBomb

ward91

use a pa sub (or custom built one) with a seperate power amp.
you can find pa subs cheap on ebay.(proberly already know that, just a suggestion)

VR3

PA subs can get loud yes...

But low it can not.

ward91

ye i suppose so

VR3

The best thing about PA subs is this...

They use big woofers, medium excursion, low power handling, but INCREDIBLY high effeciency - 100db effecient woofers is amazing. Home Audio woofers are like in the low 90s, high 80s I think. They need alot more power because of low effeciency and because they move around 2-4"

ward91

they dont move 2-4 inches if thats what you mean. "do they??"
car audio subs usualy move about 1inch

or am i just confused?

VR3

Most high quality home audio subs move about 2" to 4" linear.

unc2701

Try more like 2" and below. You can find a few 3" ones, but much beyond that is hard to come by and they're not in high quality home audio subs. Even the freakin' rediculous $7,000 MTX 22" jackhammer is only 5"...

Sweeeezle

Im in a similar boat and similar size room. Ive been talking to the guys at SVS and I may be returning my pb10 and replace with a plus/2. Im just not sure yet.

I have about 3600 cu ft. including an open door to the kitchen area. Heres a link to some pics. If you guys havent used it before a free program from google called sketchup is pretty easy to use once you look over the tutorial. I have some other programs but I used this one so I could share my files with my brother as he wanted to be able to see what I was doing with my free time . www.sketchup.com

http://www.pbase.com/livverlips/stereo_shhhhhhtuff

I cant wait to get a roof over the place


My place sucks acoustically. Tile floors throughout and my couches dont really fit that well any other way than I have them now. The bass sounds good now but it just doesnt seem as tight as I expected it to. I am limited with my receiver as to how much eq'ing I can do. I have a big peak at about 40hz I was able to tame but the rest of my stuff doesnt sound really great either now that I have them in manual mode. I think the main thing is its just having to move so much air. Im just not sure if it will be worth it to me to spend another $800 (a total of about $1200) to get 7-10db of more clean output. Should I just get another pb10? According to Tom at SVS the PLus/2 will be like having about three of the pb10 units.

Anyone wanna recommend a decent eq for 5.1 or 7.1 system?

Sweeeezle

By the way if anyone that has the sketchup program wants to view my file in all its 3d glory you can grab it here.;)

http://rapidshare.de/files/24003805/room__2_.skp

I may as well add my stuff in my signature in case anyone wants to know what Im workin or if they feel like making any suggestions.

bdupuy

Thanks for the tip on this sketcher. I wish I had it before I started talking with SVS. I used the drawing tools in MS Word, which is pretty weak.

I'm curious as to why you would jump from the pB10 to the plus/2. Tom talked me into the NSD/2.

Meeks32

Dont know if it was mentioned before, but if the only concern with a +2 sub is the footprint then you could always just take off the base plate & set it upright with the ports facing up. I did this & it doesnt take up much more room than my cylinder did.

Sweeeezle

bdupuy wrote:

Thanks for the tip on this sketcher. I wish I had it before I started talking with SVS. I used the drawing tools in MS Word, which is pretty weak.

I'm curious as to why you would jump from the pB10 to the plus/2. Tom talked me into the NSD/2.

Actually in one of my first emails I believe Tom had mistakenly thought I had 7500 cu ft. so I am assuming that was probably the reason he mentioned it. Of course I actually only have 3600. As many emails a day as they reply to they are bound to get a number here or there off

Tom had made a comparison for me which I suppose he wouldnt mind if I just retyped it here. Obviously the 7500 # is incorrect for me but as he later told me the comparison remains the same.

"With close to 7500 cu-ft total, we would normally recommend a
PB12-plus/2 or a PB12Ultra/2 for home theater use. Compared to the PB10
you have, the Plus/2 would be equal to about three of them, and the
Ultra/2 to close to four. Another way of looking at that is...the
Plus/2
will give you 7-10dB more clean output and the Ultra/2 will be around
9-12dB more.

Adding a second PB10 will give you a 6dB increase in headroom(clean
output). "

I imagine the nsd/2 would probably be sufficient for me as well.

Ive been trying to do some testing using the roomeq program
http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/
however it appears to be very flaky on my mac and it keeps crashing on me. Any other mac users here using the app with good results?

Sherardp

I dont know who makes the sub youre talking about but I just installed my SVS PB12/Plus 2 minutes ago and I can tell you this thing rocks. The deep bass and the punch is accurate. Im running it at 1/4 the gain on the amp, and it just rocks. My walls are shaking throughout the house here. I havent even gotten it up to reference level yet. If you have the 1199 in your budget go for it.

Im still waiting on my Rti12s and two outlaw M2200's after that I will complete the install and go from there. I have the CSi5 and FXi3, monster 3500 power conditioner, so Im ready to rock the place. Consider the SVS man, you wont regret it.

bdupuy

What I findally did was order the PB12NSD/2. I got it installed and I am very satisfied. With the high output using the 20Hz port setting I am getting, I am not sure that I could not have done as well with the PB12NSD/V, but this is certainly impressive.

Ron Temple

Unless you've under-subbed in a too large room, not many people complain about the output or musicality of SVS subs. I put a 20-39+ in a 2000 cube, concrete, family room that opens to 5000 (5' opening). Corner loaded, I get room gain which translates to 110db plus peaks at the LP at -15 from reference. When SVS recommends their +2s in large rooms, they are thinking reference level bass...something my house/room can't support. All their subs over-achieve. I have a friend who used a PB10 in a 5000 cube room with very satisfactory results...he needed more, but it was still very impressive and better than the pair of budget subs I had at the time.

Sweeeezle

yea , I ended up just deciding to keep the b stock pb10 I have and later on when funds permit just adding a second one to the mix. They will be easier to move around. As i said elsewhere I wouldnt really get to take advantage of anything more than that living in a duplex. First im gonna get a BFD to tame some peaks and valleys.