Brake rotors

MacLeod

Well just when I think Ive got all these stupid little things paid for that keep popping up, today I find out that all 4 of my rotors are warped and are already below the minimum spec. So yay me. I get to buy 4 new rotors.

Sears was kind enough to offer to sell me some for $108 a piece (!) but I decided to look around first and found some at NAPA for either $45 for standard rotors or $65 for the slotted high performance rotors. Advance Auto Parts also has some Bendix for around $50 as well.

Ive heard that NAPA is very high quality parts and was leaning towards them and even thinking about getting all new pads as well and just starting fresh but I know Bendix is a good brand as well.

My truck is pretty hefty and I want something that will hold up over time.

Any opinions?

petrym

If you're going to keep your truck and not beat on it, the standard NAPA or Bendix rotors will do just fine. I just replaced all four rotors and the front pads on my Chrysler minivan (2001 T&C Limited - 100K miles)

Make sure you get the brake cleaner spray to get the preservative off the metal and you have the anti-squeak compound for the back of the pads (which I would replace as well) if you change the pads. I got the whole set of parts (four rotors, all four corners of pads - didn't have to change the rears) for $285. The Bendix pads have a replacement deal on them for free if you properly register and followup on them. I did the work myself in my garage and got to show my son (10.5 years old) how to change brake parts and save over $500 in labor charges.

MacLeod

Cool, thanks man.

I do plan on keeping my truck for a long time and I drive it like its made out of glass so no worries about thrashing it.

I think Ill go with the NAPA's and maybe get their pads too.

Im too mechanically challenged to do my own brake job so Ill have to spring for Sears to do it for me. Shouldnt be too much, they said theyd charge me $50 to hang one set of rotors so I figure $150'ish for 2 sets and pads.

McLoki

Changing the rotors is really as easy as taking the wheel off.

Remove the wheel.

There will be one or two retaining clips (flat peices of metal with a star shape on the inside of the ring to fit the threads on the wheel) spin the retaining clips off.

Pull off the rotor.

push on the new rotor.

spin the retaining clips back on. (the axle bolts actually keep it on, the retaining clips just keep it from sliding around when the wheel is off)

put the wheel back on.

that easy.

(the brakes are not bad, but a little more involved (and much more messy) to do.)

Michael

Beekyman

Maybe its my driving but my 02 Grand Cherokee has gone thru 2 sets of rotors in 58000 miles and the replacements were from the dealership! My company vehicle, a 04 Dodge Dakota is on its second set of rotors fore and aft and thats at 85k miles. My previous vehicle a 2000 Astro Van had a voracious appetite for brakes and all of them started with the familiar brake flutter when brakes are applied. All of my earlier vehicles never had this issue and I think my driving habits were much more aggressive when I was younger...perhaps it has something to do with newer car brake system metalurgy and the newer brake pad composition that causes this? I've had good luck with Bendix and NAPA but would be inclined to stick with NAPA.
Good luck on your choice!

schwarcw

If your replacing fron rotors, you'll need to remove the front inner and outer wheel bearings. Removing the old inner bearing without ruining the grease seal can be a little tricky. I will remove the dust cover, cotter pin, axle nut cover, and axle nut. The outer bearing will slip out of the rotor and off the axle. Pull off the rotor. Put the axle nut back on, slip the inner wheel bearing seal over the axle nut and pull smartly. The seal should pull out, remove the inner bearing. Check the seal for damage, lube the bearings, instal the inner bearing and grease seal, put the rotor back on, install the outer bearing and slot washer. Carefully tighten the axle nut, put the nut cover, cotter pin and dust cover back on the axle.

Chances are you'll have to push back the piston in the caliper in order for the new pads to fit over the rotor. I use a big C clamp. I like to use a little anti seize on the pad guide pins.

MacLeod

I think Ill let Sears take care of it. They pulled my wheels and brakes off for me today and when they told me I needed new rotors and I told them to put everything back on I didnt have the cash, they did, were very nice to me and didnt charge me a dime. I figure I owe them the business.

Besides, I trust myself to change oil and plugs. Brakes and transmission work, I dont!

Advance Auto has some really good prices on Raybestos stuff on their website. 4 rotors and 4 sets of pads for $243. Not too shabby. Hopefully theyll have the stuff in stock. If not, Ill be off to Napa. Car stuff is just like audio stuff. When Im ready to buy I dont want to wait!

Frank Z

Beekyman wrote:

Maybe its my driving but my 02 Grand Cherokee has gone thru 2 sets of rotors in 58000 miles and the replacements were from the dealership!

Have you GOOGLED TSB's for your GC?

MacLeod

That does seem like low mileage.

My OEM brakes went 60,000 trouble free and smooth stopping miles. I would like to go to the Dodge dealer and tell em to put brand new OEM pads and rotors on again just for the long life. But then again, my rotors after only being turned once and having 75000 miles on em are now worn below spec. That seems a little low to me so Ill turn to the aftermarket.

PolkThug

MacLeod wrote:

I think Ill let Sears take care of it. They pulled my wheels and brakes off for me today and when they told me I needed new rotors

SCREEECCHHH!!!!!

Hold on, is this the only reason you think you need all four new rotors? If this was true, you wouldn't have needed a tech to tell you, you're truck would have been shaking like a **** everytime you hit the brakes. One warped rotor will make a vehicle shake, four warped rotors would be out of control. I just find it hard to believe that ALL FOUR were bad and they were ALL so bad that they couldn't be turned.

Frank Z

The key word here is SEARS...

NEVER let Sears fix your car......ever.

ND13

Ceramic pads are the only words you need to remember.

McLoki

ND13 wrote:

Ceramic pads are the only words you need to remember.

Ceramics are nice, but make you you purchase rotors for ceramic pads. (just have to make sure they know you plan on running ceramic pads when you purchase the rotors)

ND13

The last three vehicles I've had to replace pads on got ceramics. I never had noise, heat(warping), or dust issues from then on. That's with the stock rotors.:)

MacLeod

PolkThug wrote:

SCREEECCHHH!!!!!

Hold on, is this the only reason you think you need all four new rotors? If this was true, you wouldn't have needed a tech to tell you, you're truck would have been shaking like a **** everytime you hit the brakes. One warped rotor will make a vehicle shake, four warped rotors would be out of control. I just find it hard to believe that ALL FOUR were bad and they were ALL so bad that they couldn't be turned.

Yes all 4 are warped but only the rears were below spec, the fronts were ok to be turned.

When I hit the brakes the car shook quite hard and the steering wheel jerked back and forth as well. It started slightly several months ago and has gradually gotten worse. I figured the front were warped so I took it to Firestone and they turned them and it fixed half the problem. No more shaking in the front of the truck or the steering wheel but it still shook violently from the rear.

I took it back to Firestone and they told me the rears were severely warped and below spec to be turned. Discard is .83 and mine are at .81 right now. I decided to get a second opinion and like the guys at my local Sears so I went down there and without telling them what Firestone said, they said the same thing. Discard spec is .83 and Im at .81.

The rears are so warped that they throw the wheel balance off at freeway speeds.

When I needed new pads a year ago, I ran down to Advance, grabbed 2 sets of Bendix and had Midas throw em on for me. Ever since then theyve never been quite right so Im not sure if Midas screwed the rotors up when they turned them or if the pads chewed them up.

I think I could get away with rear rotors only but since the fronts have been turned twice now and warped within a year and Im not sure why all 4 warped so quickly and so severe that I would be better off just getting all new pads and rotors and starting from scratch.

Demiurge

They don't seem to turn down rotors much at all anymore. I took my car in when I started to get jumpy brakes and they said they had to junk them because there wasn't enough material to machine them down. I know that can happen, but I wasn't riding around on bad brakes. Maybe the factory rotars come like that now...?

schwarcw

Once the rotors are turned. they will warp very quickly. I like the Bendix rotors. Seems like I got the best milage out of them. Some of the cheapies the auto stores sell are made in a third world country and won't last very long.

MacLeod

You mean like the Duralast rotors from Autozone for $25! Eek! I wouldnt put those on my truck if they gave em to me!!!

MacLeod

Ahhhh.

I bit the bullet and went and bought some Mopar pads and rotors. They were $150 more total than the others but since I knew how well they perform I thought it would be worth the extra money to not have to worry about brakes for 60,000 miles.

My beloved Dodge rides like its brand new now. The shimmy is gone when driving down the freeway and it brakes linear and smooth as silk.

This has been a very valuable lesson for me. From now on, no more shopping at Autozone for important parts, from now on Ill buy only Mopar factory parts.

Mopar 60,000 trouble free miles
Bendix 15,000

MacLeod

Since my freeway shimmy is now gone, I figure I had one or more rotors out or balance or round or whatever and then remembered somebody telling me there is a machine that balances tires while theyre still on the car so they balance the entire wheel assembly.

I dont need it now but was still wondering if these things existed. I tried to google for it (actually I use Ask.com) but couldnt find anything on it.

Anybody know of a machine like this?

audiobliss

Nope.

Beekyman

According to Pat Goss of Goss's Garage that machine does exist and I believe it is made by a company called Hunter. It is supposed to dynamically balance the wheel/tire assembly in such a way that all aspects of balance are considered and analyzed.
I did check the TSB's on my 02 Grand Cherokee and the first set of rotors were replaced under that TSB. Thanks for the tips folks!

mrbigbluelight

but this link will take you to the Hunter on-the-car wheel balancer.

http://www.hunter.com/pub/product/balancer/900T-1/index.htm#pricing

read-alot

We started seeing more problems with brake rotor hot spots and pedal vibration with carbon taking the place of asbestos in pad material. The one thing I can tell you guys that have to stand up on the brake pedal every now and then would be not to sit still very long with the hot brakes locked in one location after your stop. Let it roll a little if you can and reapply the pressure this will help distribute the heat around the rotor.

audiobliss

mrbigbluelight wrote:

but this link will take you to the Hunter on-the-car wheel balancer.

http://www.hunter.com/pub/product/balancer/900T-1/index.htm#pricing

I'm a little disappointed. I thought balancing the whole assembly sounded like a cool idea, but that equipment just looks cheap. Any word on how it actually works, and if the end result is any better than the more conventional methods of balancing?

bikerboy

Looks like a week in the garage is in order.
Sears would never work on my car. If it were me I would put the slotted rotors with good regular pads and that way replacement pads are standard. But I have driven the WRX for 40,000 miles and still dont need to replace the pads. So what do I know. But good brakes are a must.

venomclan

My wifes Cherokee Sport needed brakes every 10 months. We live in S. FL and the dealer said it was due to the heat. The truck was on lease and had less than 30k when she turned it in. The A/C went and the brake thing was ridiculous. In the end we fixed the problem by buying Honda's. I guess the heat does not effect them as much?
Venom

PolkThug

venomclan wrote:

My wifes Cherokee Sport needed brakes every 10 months. We live in S. FL and the dealer said it was due to the heat. The truck was on lease and had less than 30k when she turned it in. The A/C went and the brake thing was ridiculous. In the end we fixed the problem by buying Honda's. I guess the heat does not effect them as much?
Venom

The Cherokees are too heavy for the brake system that comes stock.

MacLeod

bikerboy wrote:

Sears would never work on my car. I

To change brakes, balance tires, oil changes, AC charging, installing shocks and struts and stuff like that Sears is just fine.

For transmission service or something major like that, I will only go to the dealer.

audiobliss

PolkThug wrote:

The Cherokees are too heavy for the brake system that comes stock.

Really? In my own personal experience, I've found it to be completely adequate. Now, ABS would be nice so I might not have run into that fence when they locked up, but I personally think their braking system is 'strong' enough.

Now, that is in my 1995 Cherokee. '95 I think is the first year they started having double-diaphram (sp?) brake boosters. Before that they were just single-diaphram (sp?), and it is recommended that if you have the single, you switch it out with the double.

But, I have *no* problem locking up all four tires on dry pavement.