To bi or not to bi wire?

pal51961

I am considering bi wiring my lsi 15's. I will be using an acurus 200X3. What will the benifits be? Should I also bi wire my other speakers, or is there a need to? My only concern with this 2 channel setup is that the imaging could be sharper, more accurate (pinpoint) if that makes sense. I don't know if this is a shortfall of the speakers, or amp. I know it takes a lot of fine tuning with placement, but I am limited and am unable to move the fronts. They are 8 feet apart and I am 13 feet away. Should the speakers be toed in towards me or straight ahead, I have been playing with this. Any help would be appreciated.

Early B.

The only way to know if there are benefits to bi-wiring is to try it. For some, it makes a slight difference and to others it makes no difference at all.

FicmanS

Have to give it a shot would be my advice, on my rig I'd say I notice a slight difference. Nothing that made the earth move in my book...

RuSsMaN

As far as toe in goes, point them RIGHT at you in the listening position. The preamp (Pioneer ?) is the weak link in your music chain, imo. Bi-wiring can offer an improvment, at the minimum, replace the stock jumpers with a small length of good speaker cable. You can also buy terminated jumpers from several good cable manufacturers.

Cheers,
Russ

steveinaz

In most cases your money would be better spent on one set of very good speaker cables versus 2 sets of medicore cables...just a thought

pal51961

Why do you say that my pioneer is the weak link. It is a 1300.00 receiver, and it has recieved stellar reviews. Since it is only acting as a preamp/processor I am hoping that it is able to perform this task, and it is not the problem.....but I may be wrong. What would a good set of speaker cables be? I am using monster 12 guage.

steveinaz

St. Louis huh? I'm from STL.

Anywho, I know there's good audio shops in STL, see if you can do some free auditions of different speaker cables; Audioquest/Kimber/MIT/Cardas...the list goes on & on. Some of the best values are Audioquest Bedrock, Kimber 4TC or 8TC, stuff from Analysis Plus...get your research on!

danger boy

pal51961 wrote:

Why do you say that my pioneer is the weak link. It is a 1300.00 receiver, and it has recieved stellar reviews. Since it is only acting as a preamp/processor I am hoping that it is able to perform this task, and it is not the problem.....but I may be wrong. What would a good set of speaker cables be? I am using monster 12 guage.

i know this may not be an important point.. but are you using monster 12 guage cables or wires? I started with monster wires too.. then moved to monster speaker cables.. and have since moved on to something else.. i am satisfied with what I am using now... Cobalt Cable ultimate speaker cables..

You will probably notice a improvement once you get different speaker cables for your rig..

wingnut4772

i am satisfied with what I am using now... Cobalt Cable ultimate speaker cables..

+1! Excellent for the money.

audiobliss

Bi-wiring...you should try it to see if it offers an improvement. However, like others have said, I would invest in a good set of quality, higher guage speaker cables before worrying with biwiring. However, if you (and you should) get a new set of speaker wires, you may want to investigate getting a set wrapped for biwiring.

As for your Pioneer receiver acting as a pre...I don't care how expensive it was/is. It's a HT receiver. It's NOT going to do near as well as a dedicated stereo preamp, even one costing much less. Even a dedicated HT preamp (to replace the receiver in case you don't want to have a stereo preamp and a HT preamp/your receiver) would most likely offer better 2-channel performance.

Having said that, the LSi series' performance is very dependent upon placement. Play with toe-in. Like Russ said, they should be pointing right at you. See if that helps.

Demiurge

What about shoe-in?

zombie boy 2000

I noticed a subtle improvement when I replaced the stock-jumpers, and yet another subtle improvement when I bi-wired. Taken together, the change for the better is obvious IMO.

I have to agree on going with some quality speaker cables. There are many affordable options out there, many of which have already been mentioned.
In most cases, much of the cost will go towards the actual cables with a relatively small charge alloted to the option of bi-wiring.

In which case, it's really a no-brainer.

+1 to Signal Cable btw

Early B.

If you're looking for better 2-channel sound, you'll need a good CD player. In addtion to a preamp and better speaker cables (and interconnects), add a minimum of $500 to your budget for a decent used CD player.

The problem with mixing HT and 2-channel is different objectives for both. It's not easy to do unless you start by building your 2-channel system first, then build an HT system around it.

madmax

audiobliss wrote:

Bi-wiring...you should try it to see if it offers an improvement.

As for your Pioneer receiver acting as a pre...I don't care how expensive it was/is. It's a HT receiver. It's NOT going to do near as well as a dedicated stereo preamp, even one costing much less.

+1
madmax

pal51961

So what I am hearing is to go buy some cables, thats no problem. I only need 2-5ft's. What concerns me is how can you have a great preamp and great ht all in one, or is that the inherent shortfall of these types of systems. Don't get me wrong, it sounds great....and I love listening to this system. It has good, clean and dynamic power and lots of finess. I listen primarly to jazz and rock. The 15's with 250wpc really sing. Someone mentioned needing a cd player of quality. I have sometimes used my Ipod through the pioneers dedicated Ipod port and it sounds great to me, is this a good digital signal? Thanks for the suggestions.

audiobliss

What's the bitrate of the music you have on your iPod?

If you really enjoy critically listening to your music, hearing every minute detail, picking it apart, placing people on the stage in your mind, then you will hear great improvements with a dedicated CDP and a good quality stereo preamp.

pal51961

i believe most of it is in the 128-192 range

audiobliss

If you're satisfied with the sound quality a MP3 file ripped at a bit rate of 128-192 offers, then the LSi series is most definitely overkill for you.

vman71

Agree with what some of the others have said about a better CDP. The newer Denon's have gotten some really good reviews for both CD and DVD performance.

It has been my experience and alot of extra money (not well spent), that in my audio systems, upgrading the speaker crossovers brought significantly more improvement than any interconnect, speaker cable or power cord. I have owned and still own cables from Electraglide, Ridge Street Audio, Nirvana, NBS and Siltech. No slouches in the audiophile community but dollar for dollar, nothing comes close to upgrading the internal parts of my speaker crossover networks.

Upgraded networks less than $225 vs. over $2K in cables

scottnbnj

pal, lsi's are not overkill for you. you identified imaging as a weakness and i'll bet you came as close as anyone here to identifying what should be addressed first to get yourself on the right path. the gear you have now is capable of giving you more precise imaging without component upgrades.

it might help you to take your time and read about and experiment with "speaker placement", "room acoustics" and "acoustic treatments". google up those terms with the quotation marks and see where they lead you.

i know you said you can't move your mains, but out of the gates you might consider playing with closer listening positions, even if only temporary or just to hear different aspects of what your gear can do and what your room does to the sound that comes out of your speaks. in many rooms slowly moving your listening position down the centerline as a tune plays can be very revealing.

it takes thought, patience, experimentation and lots of time in the listening chair to get yourself in a position that allows you to hear the best your gear and room have to offer. but remember that that is just a vehicle to allow you to set something up that lets you forget about what sounds right and wrong so you can just enjoy your tunes. you will be better served in the long run if you spend time now learning how to get the best out of what you have before jumping on the gear swap express and it will allow you to hear what changes upgrades make.

good luck and enjoy the ride.

)

pal51961

Bliss,
The ipod was just me playing around with it, what I was curious to know though is this. By asking the bitrate of my mp3's leads me to believe that 320 might be acceptacle for high quality listening, it this true. I usually listen to my elite dv/cd. I really wasn't looking to puchase more gear. I thought I had a nice rig, being in the moderate price range. I have already ordered signal bi wire cables, so thats one thing done. I know my amp and speakers are good. If all I need is a good cd player I will buy one used on audiogon or ebay. What players do you like? I will not be willing to part with my elite reciever yet, I like looking at it!! And I think it sounds great on ht. Thanks for your help on this.

pal51961

Scott,
Thanks for confirming my thinking. Granted, as discussed I could use cables (which I ordered) and possibly more. I agree that speaker placement is critical. I also agree that I could obtain better imaging and soundstage. Since my original posting I have achieved transparency, a great soundstage and better imaging. With a great sub and great fronts amped well I think I can enjoy the accuracy and tonal beauty of this rig. It just sounds warm and lush with jazz. These tweeters are very good. All types of music seem to be handled with finesse and punch at any volume. Thanks for your suggestions and I will try them.