Toshiba hd-A1 vs XA1

cheddar

mutelight wrote:

While true all HD-DVDs are in 1080p format. Many reviewers have said (and I hav e witnessed at the demo kiosk at Best Buy that the A1 is REDICULOUSLY slow even when turning on. It is the very first HD format player and I would avoid it unless you absolutely have to be on the bleeding edge. I personally would wait until the prices came down and they offered 1080p output.

The thing is a computer, with a pentium chip according to sound and vision:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=1473&page_number=1

I wonder if microsoft had anything to do with that :rolleyes:?

cheddar

The article also says that the 720p scaler is bad. Can anyone comment on the differences between the 720 and 1080 pictures?

Sami

cheddar wrote:

I think all you're trying to say is that MPEG2 is a less efficient compression scheme than MPEG4. But what does it really matter when you even acknowledge that the movies fit fine at 25GB or 30GB. That's why the comments below seem confusing. Lesser quality and inferior seem kind of harsh

That's why I used the parenthesis, and stated that in reality I don't think it makes a difference. It seems like some are thinking BR will deliver better PQ and are waiting because of that. I just don't think that will be reality with the first releases (maybe, just maybe it will in the future) and if you want HD movies from a disc, I don't think there is going to be much difference which format you get in the next year or so.

Also, PS3 will not have analog outputs so to get the 192kHz PCM you need to have a prepro with HDMI. You might get analog outputs on the $1000+ Sony BR player but not on PS3. Whether HDMI 1.3 is going to be ready when PS3 launches is still unclear, or does someone have more info?

As for 1080i and 1080p:

1) Because of the source, it has been said that 1080i deinterlaced to 1080p is going to be the same as 1080p to 1080p. In any case there will not be much of a difference. That's why I think the whole issue is nitpicking and doesn't really matter. Especially considering...

2) How many of you are going to have TV's that accept 1080p signal? Most 1080p displays do not accept 1080p anyway. Maybe in a year or two but by then the HD-DVD players will output 1080p as well.

I don't know how accurate the info on this thread is:
http://www.thedigitalforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=947

In any case, nothing wrong in waiting on PS3 but I have concerns on what the price will be, how available will it initially be and how does it manage as a BR player. Depending on those facts I might pick one myself when the prices drop a little. I am a computer gamer but a top console with the ability to play BR is tempting, if the price is right and it functions well as a BR player. Then again, after the first HD player, I am good to wait until the dust clears and the winner emerges between BR and HD-DVD. Don't get me wrong even though I defend HD-DVD and currently own one, I don't mind if BR wins the war, quite the opposite.

BTW, I have connected both my HD receiver and HD-DVD to my display with component and the picture is stunning. I have two HDMI cables on their way so soon I will see if it makes much difference. So far all my SD DVD have upconverted to 1080i despite the reports that copy protected DVD's only upconvert with HDMI cable. The scaler on this player is pretty good, lot better PQ than with regular SD player. I don't have other upscaling DVD players to compare with though.

Sami

cheddar wrote:

The article also says that the 720p scaler is bad. Can anyone comment on the differences between the 720 and 1080 pictures?

On how the player converts to 720p or 720p vs 1080p in general? You are supposed to run the HD-DVD in 1080i regardless of the display, at least that what I have read.

Yes, this player is slow (among other clitches) and it is inconvenient but then again what is the little wait up when you are going to watch a 90+ minute movie?

cheddar

Sami wrote:

On how the player converts to 720p or 720p vs 1080p in general? You are supposed to run the HD-DVD in 1080i regardless of the display, at least that what I have read.

Yes, this player is slow (among other clitches) and it is inconvenient but then again what is the little wait up when you are going to watch a 90+ minute movie?

Yes, the S&V article said that downconverting HD content to 720p was bad on the player. I guess the scalers on the TVs do a better job.

I only hope that with all this convergence stuff, we eventually get computer enhanced equipment that's as reliable and quick as A/V components and not A/V stuff that has all the bad habits of computers :rolleyes:.

Sami

cheddar wrote:

Yes, the S&V article said that downconverting HD content to 720p was bad on the player. I guess the scalers on the TVs do a better job.

Most likely for 720. For 1080 they do much better job than the TV.

cheddar wrote:

I only hope that with all this convergence stuff, we eventually get computer enhanced equipment that's as reliable and quick as A/V components and not A/V stuff that has all the bad habits of computers :rolleyes:.

That's what I'm REALLY waiting on, HD computer players with supporting SW. Before the HD-DVD I was using HTPC as my video source.

Ron-P

A firmware update is coming soon

Just to let owners of the A1 and XA1 know, withing the next week or so Toshiba will be issueing a firmware upgrade for the players. You can either down load it or have them send you a disk.

Here's the thread at AVS on it. Someone's got it and uploaded it to a downloadable site for those that don't want to wait. You will need Nero to burn it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=681416

It starts about page 3 with a link to the download site. Even though I've have no issues with my player I'll do the upgrade but wait for an offical copy from Toshiba.

wingnut4772

What does the download do?

Has anyone actually compared the digital output SQ of this player to another? If that's just bits of data can it really sound any better on this player. I am still considering buying it but I just can't go back to 5.1 via analog. I am pretty addicted to 7.1.

millerman 3732

wingnut4772 wrote:

What does the download do?

Has anyone actually compared the digital output SQ of this player to another? If that's just bits of data can it really sound any better on this player. I am still considering buying it but I just can't go back to 5.1 via analog. I am pretty addicted to 7.1.

Go down to Best Buy after lunch and pick one up and try it out for a week or two and if you don't like it take it back.

wingnut4772

That is a good idea. I always forget I can take them back.:p

Sami

millerman 3732 wrote:

Go down to Best Buy after lunch and pick one up and try it out for a week or two and if you don't like it take it back.

Doesn't BB charge you a restocking fee? I got mine from Fry's (no fees for returning) and I thought I was for sure going to take it back. Didn't happen...

Ron-P

Doesn't BB charge you a restocking fee?

Only on computers and such, not dvd players.

What does the download do?

It fixes the freeze ups, lock-ups, hdmi errors and other bugs the players have.

wingnut4772

Well I finally broke down last night and picked one up just to try it out. I began calibrating the speakers and I noticed the right front was not working. I checked my amp and the 'oops' lights were on. I changed the fuses and they are still on. So now I have to send in that channel (another!) for service. :eek:

Anyhoo...from what I can tell it seems that the PQ is pretty good...I am not sure I am digging the analog 5.1 although I really only have 4.1! I do have to calibrate the speaker level in the player if I am going to run it in analog through my pre right? My pre speaker settings won't be in effect?

adam2434

wingnut4772 wrote:

I do have to calibrate the speaker level in the player if I am going to run it in analog through my pre right? My pre speaker settings won't be in effect?

My channel level trims are still operational with the analog multi-channel inputs. The strange thing is that the increments change from 0.5 dB to 1.0 dB.

The first thing I would do is check the channel levels with all channels set to "0" in the DVD player and your pre's current channel level settings.

However, your crossover, speaker size, and delays may not be in effect with the multi-channel analog ins. That's the case with most pre-pros and receivers.

polksda

I see the BR fanboys are spreading FUD here as well. I swear, it's a cult with some of these people...

Well, HD-DVD is here right now at half the cost of BR... and BR players are being delayed left and right. Screw it, I'd rather be watching HD now. If BR ultimately looks like it's gaining momentum, I may pick one up if and when it falls to the same $500 price point I paid for the Toshiba. Doesn't look like that will happen any time soon.

Reports on the new Samsung BR player put bootup times on par with the HD-A1, so much for BR's advantage there. The Sony and Pioneer BR players will NOT be able to play CDs... oops.

The disc capacity issue is moot, as HD-DVD uses much more efficient compression.

Wonderful glorious HD on a disc.

That's why I'm selling my Pioneer Elite... The new firmware update for the HD-A1 fixed all the freezing/lockup issues I had, and the SD DVD upconversion of the HD-A1 is almost as good as the Pioneer Elite (just a hair below). The way things are going, HD-DVD may be on its 3rd or 4th generation of firmware before BR players ever even hit the street.

For convenience, you can do firmware updates via the ethernet port, or simply burn the 46MB firmware to a CD-R (not DVD-R).

IMO it is the best HD material available: full-resolution HD with ZERO motion artifacts that plague broadcast and satellite HD.

I tried both 5.1 analog inputs and toslink. Not really hearing enough of a difference; both sound excellent.

Best demos at the moment (IMO):

Chronicles of Riddick
Phantom of the Opera
Serenity
Blazing Saddles (believe it or not; the sharpness of the HD transfer is stunning).

wingnut4772

I did get the feel that the digital sound out was better on the HD DVD but of course I can not really tell fully because of my amp issue...how do standard DVD s sound via Toslink on this? I imagine the same as they did before?

wingnut4772

I have my set up at 6.1 now and I am watching Serenity HD. The improvements are not night and day but it is an improvement. I have been switching back and forth between analog and DTS and I have to say it's close with the edge in clarity going to the analog. I prefer the DTS though. I played a couple of redbook cds and my first impression was - not nearly as good as my Pioneer Elite 79 avi but I have yet to A/B. I am not sure it's a keeper but I have 28 more days to decide.

Edit...Ok maybe I prefer analog but when I popped in my Aeon Flux DVD it sounded better via Toslink.(DD PLIIX) So I suppose HD DVDs might be better in analog but I miss my 7 channels!:D So when receivers that can process the HD audio formats finally do come out is it my understanding that this player will NOT be able to put out the full 7 channels of HD sound?

Sami

On that DVD you don't have the HD soundtrack (DD+) that sounds better with Serenity. I think this player is limited to DTS core and DD+ tracks, HD-DTS and Dolby TrueHD require HDMI 1.3 which has not been even developed yet, its specs are still open.

wingnut4772

I am taking it back today. It is nice but the cd audio was the clincher for me. I feel more comfortable waiting it out until someone wins and there is actually a pre that can accept the HD Audio etc. via HDMI.

polksda

What display are you using, which connection, and what output resolution?

Regardless of what it says in the instructions, you want to output at 1080i, not 720p. For some idiotic reason, the HD-A1 downrezzes from 1080p to 480p then up to 720p.

If you're not seeing a big difference over SD-DVD, I'm wondering if things are properly connected and calibrated, or if your display isn't capable of displaying full 1920x1080 resolution. Also, if you're viewing on a smaller display, the differences are not as apparent.

On a 65" display, the differences between SD-DVD and HD-DVD are massive, in my opinion...

I understand returning it if you're underwhelmed with the audio performance, given that you're planning to use it for all purposes (HD-DVD, SD-DVD, CD). Since I use a standalone CD player, this is much less of an issue for me...

wingnut4772

Don't get me wrong. There is an obvious difference. I have a 1080p display and the A1 set at 1080i. I just don't want to do it halfway ya' know? I would rather commit later and get it all than get a little HD and HD audio at the expense of the excellent SQ my Pioneer provides. I suppose I could keep both ...but I will save that $500.00 smackers and put it toward the winning player and a pre that supports it later. It is a really nice player though for what it is for now.

Sami

wingnut4772 wrote:

Don't get me wrong. There is an obvious difference. I have a 1080p display and the A1 set at 1080i.

Does your TV accept 1080p though? Most 1080p TV's don't. In any case it really isn't halfway as the source is 1080p24 which is still short of what 1080i60 can provide so you're getting it all even with this player.

1920 * 1080 * 24 = 49,766,400 pixels per second
1920 * 540 * 60 = 62,208,000 pixels per second

wingnut4772

I mean halfway in the sense that it's not also Bluray and full HD audio. I think my TV does not accept a full 1080p siganl although the folks at Samsung said it did.

Sami

wingnut4772 wrote:

I mean halfway in the sense that it's not also Bluray and full HD audio. I think my TV does not accept a full 1080p siganl although the folks at Samsung said it did.

I have Samsung HL-R6168W, 1080p, and it doesn't accept 1080p from other than the VGA input. I just watched Apollo 13 today, this time in my 720p front projector, and after that put in a SD disc. It's a real eye opener to play HD and SD back to back, that's when you really see the difference. Going from 720p to 1080p is another step forward but SD looked rather horrible when it wasn't upconverted (no HDMI in my FP and the disc had copy protection).

wingnut4772

Yes. I am not seeing I don't see the difference. I just want to wait. I am sure it will only get better.