How to actualy hear the SDA's at their best WITHOUT expensive mods

honestaquarian

One of the most common things that i see in pics and read about when it comes to the SDA series of loudspeakers is poor placement.I have owned three pairs of SDA's in my life(so far)I first owned a pair of SDA-1B's which i purchased just as the SDA-1C's were coming out.I later traded them for a pair of SDA-CRS+'s when i moved to a smaller place.I currently own a pair of SDA-1C's.I am using the AI-1 interface cable.I also purchased the RD-0194 tweeters,which are the replacements for the SL-2000.This is a(relatively)inexpensive upgrade which will improve your highs as far as i'm concerned.This however is not the upgrade that this post is concerned with.The upgrade about which i am typing may not cost a cent depending on your own personal situation.

It is quite simply placing the speakers in the listening room in the manner recommended by Polk Audio.In order to prevent early sound reflections from smearing the image(and thereby reducing the SDA soundstage to some extent.Or completely destroying it in others depending on the severity of the reflections)Polk recommends the loudspeakers be placed five feet from any sidewalls and/or large furniture.At the VERY minimum they should be at LEAST three feet away if five is not possible.If the speakers or furniture cannot be moved do to room constraints(and possibly spousal objections/threats)Then one could try using some kind of damping material on the walls or furniture.This could be a plain unadorned curtain that matches the color and decor.It will work to absorb the mid to high frequency reflections and clean up the image.By simply putting up some heavy curtains on my windows in my living room/home theater to one side of the speakers.As well as behind the listening seat.Also by putting up a decorative blanket on the opposite wall where there is no window.Last,but CERTAINLY NOT least by putting up a curtain on the ceiling in between the speakers and staggering it in a way that NOT ONLY looked good,but helps to greatly reduce reflections off of the ceiling.I have been able to open up my SDA soundstage TREMENDOUSLY.In a way that i thought only expensive electronics would do.(there is ALSO a rug on the wooden floor which has been there from the very beginning)This ALSO worked in my bedroom with my smaller Polk RT-35i's and a Carver Sonic Hologram Generator.Which as many of you know does the exact same thing as the SDA's do.The main differences being the Carver runs the crosstalk cancellation full range,like the older SDA's did.It also does it in an active electronic manner as opposed to the Polks passive acoustic treatment.

These treatments only cost me a trip to IKEA and about twenty or thirty bucks for the curtains.The towels that i am using in the bedroom i already had!Whether or not you can make this work in your listening room depends largely on your decorative gene.Any number of variations on this theme will work depending on your room,taste,bank account,and last but not least the infamous WAF(Wife Acceptance Factor)Which has been politically corrected to become the SAF(Spousal Acceptance Factor)Something i do not have to worry about myself,but MANY others DO:mad:

I have my SDA-1C's exactly three feet from the sidewalls.The size of my listening room would allow no further.Measured from the front baffle of the loudspeakers(the part that the woofers and tweeters are mounted to and that the grille attaches to)to the back wall they are as follows:39 inches from the rear well behind them.18 inches from the front baffle to the plane of the front of the equipment rack and television.PLEASE NOTE THE EQUIPMENT RACK IS PLACED BACK BEHIND THE FRONT BAFFLE OF THE SPEAKERS.NOT ON THE SAME PLANE OR OUT AHEAD OF THE FRONT OF THE SPEAKERS.This is also one of the more common errors in placement that i have noticed.The equipment rack being one of the large pieces of furniture i spoke of above.

I have read and heard in several places over the years about how toeing the speakers in can help with the center image.After years of scoffing at this idea(i mean they ARE supposed to be facing straight ahead RIGHT )
i tried it by toeing them in one inch.

The verdict?

IT WORKS! NOT ONLY did the center image become more focused.The lateral images became more defined as well!!!!!

ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT-Living room:
Parasound AVC-2500 pre/pro/tuner(got it used recently on ebay.BEST upgrade i have EVER made)
Pioneer DVL-919 Laserdisc/DVD combi player
Pioneer DV-45a SACD/DVD-A/V combi player
Nakamichi BX-300 cassette deck(remember THOSE?)
Technics SL-1200mkII turntable
Shure V15 type VxMR cartridge
Sony KV-27FS16 monitor
Two stereo Carver TFM-45's for front and rear *
One bridged Carver M-400a center *

*If you Carver fans know the output if these three amps in stereo and bridged modes and you total them up.Then you know i have WAYYY too much power.:D :eek: :cool:

Polk SDA-1C's left/right front
Polk CS-400 center *
Polk monitor 5jr's left/right rear *

*I ACTUALLY have the AUDACITY to have these set to LARGE in the bass management without ANY woofer bottoming problems

Polk PSW-200 subwoofer
Monster Power HTS-2500mkII power center
MIT,Monster and Kimber cables throughout

The bass from this rig is UNBELIEVABLE.As well as possibly LEASE BREAKING.Since i live in a small apartment building(only four apartments)I try to watch movies when my neighbors aren't home.

ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT-Bedroom:
Carver CM-1090 sonic holography integrated
Carver TX-12 am/fm Tuner
Carver SD/A-490t tube cd player
Nakamichi BX-100 cassette deck
Micro Seiki DD-35 turntable
Shure V15 type V MR cartridge
Sony KV-27 XBR45 monitor
Sony SLV-779HF VCR
Pioneer DV-578A SACD/DVD-A/V combi player
Polk RT-35i loudspeakers
Moster Power HTS-2500 power center
Kimber,Audioquest and Monster cables throughout

Good luck and good listening!;)

F1nut

I think you'll find that the SDA owners here know how to set up their speakers, but thanks for sharing your thoughts.

RuSsMaN

Welcome to the board, what a great post!

Glad to hear you are enjoying your Polks.

Cheers,
Russ

dorokusai

I have yet to hear a set of SDA's in the exact "recommended placement" position...and haven't been disappointed yet. They are actually more versatile than most realize.

Enjoy the speakers!

read-alot

Twenty years ago I lived in a house that did absolutley nothing for my SDAs so I bought another house, that helped them tremendously so much so that I bought a few more sets. When I get over this damn bird flu Im replacing the caps, resistors and polys. ditto on what's been said already

madmax

I listened to my SDA's for the first few years with a bad setup. Too close to a side wall, crappy long room and no idea what they were supposed to sound like. I sure am glad I figured it out. Hopefully your post will help someone out!
madmax

read-alot

madmax wrote:

I listened to my SDA's for the first few years with a bad setup. Too close to a side wall, crappy long room and no idea what they were supposed to sound like. I sure am glad I figured it out. Hopefully your post will help someone out!
madmax

Had I not auditioned mine in the showroom before I took them home I probably would not have known my house was the problem.
To each his or her own on the toe in deal, mine seem to work the best like the owners manual suggests.

schwarcw

Welcome to the Club Polk Forums and thanks for the post. Your experiences were interesting reading. I haven't tried any acoustical treatments, my setup is not perfect but as Doro said SDA's are pretty versatile. I would like to hear SDA's in a "perfect" setup sometime. Thanks for the post and welcome!

honestaquarian

F1nut wrote:

I think you'll find that the SDA owners here know how to set up their speakers, but thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Hello
One of the more important lessons i have learned in my life has been NEVER to make assumptions about people i do not know and have never met.After seeing some of the pics of SDA's set up in homes on not only this site,but others.As well as hearing about some peoples set up's AND seeing some for myself.I began to realize a lot of people aren't hearing their SDA's at their best.Not necessarily because of room constraints either.They just didn't realize certain things about how sound travels and the effects that boundaries and other things have on it BEFORE it reaches your ear.Thank you for the welcome and have a GREAT holiday weekend.

honestaquarian

RuSsMaN wrote:

Welcome to the board, what a great post!

Glad to hear you are enjoying your Polks.

Cheers,
Russ

Thanks Russ!
Carlton

honestaquarian

dorokusai wrote:

I have yet to hear a set of SDA's in the exact "recommended placement" position...and haven't been disappointed yet. They are actually more versatile than most realize.

Enjoy the speakers!

You are correct sir.They REALLY ARE more versatile than most realize.I just put that post up to show people how to get MAYBE a little more out of theirs than they may have in the past.
Carlton
P.S.You have one KICKASS setup.I hate you,i'm jealous!LoL I am in D.C.If you ever want to hear a pair of SDA's setup properly.

honestaquarian

read-alot wrote:

Twenty years ago I lived in a house that did absolutley nothing for my SDAs so I bought another house, that helped them tremendously so much so that I bought a few more sets. When I get over this damn bird flu Im replacing the caps, resistors and polys. ditto on what's been said already

I have been wondering how one goes about redoing the crossovers with the better quality parts?Do you buy them and do it yourself?Or do you bring them to a technician and have them do it?I have seen pics of and read about many people who have had their SDA's hot rodded and was interested in at LEAST finding out more about it myself.Could you please give me some more information on this if at all possible?
Thanks!
Carlton

honestaquarian

madmax wrote:

I listened to my SDA's for the first few years with a bad setup. Too close to a side wall, crappy long room and no idea what they were supposed to sound like. I sure am glad I figured it out. Hopefully your post will help someone out!
madmax

Thanks Max
Your setup is WAAAAAYY beyond MY means dude.I am seething with envy!Have your SRS's given you the ability to hear the difference between the high end electronics each time you upgrade or change?
Carlton

honestaquarian

schwarcw wrote:

Welcome to the Club Polk Forums and thanks for the post. Your experiences were interesting reading. I haven't tried any acoustical treatments, my setup is not perfect but as Doro said SDA's are pretty versatile. I would like to hear SDA's in a "perfect" setup sometime. Thanks for the post and welcome!

Thanks Carl for the welcome.
It really isn't all that hard to set them up"perfectly"if you will.The reason why polk recommends placing them five feet from the sidewalls(which is what they recommend for the SDA-SRS series,but can ALSO be applied to the smaller ones)Is the relatively slow speed of sound and how long it takes to bounce off of a large object and get reflected to our ears.This when put in relation with the timing of the crosstalk cancellation signal coming from the SDA array can undo a LOT of what the interaural crosstalk distortion cancellation is trying to fix.
Confused?
Carlton
P.S.I can explain this a little better in detail if you'd like.I MUST warn you though.This is MAJOR geek territory and your eyes will glaze over after reading it!

read-alot

honestaquarian wrote:

I have been wondering how one goes about redoing the crossovers with the better quality parts?Do you buy them and do it yourself?Or do you bring them to a technician and have them do it?I have seen pics of and read about many people who have had their SDA's hot rodded and was interested in at LEAST finding out more about it myself.Could you please give me some more information on this if at all possible?
Thanks!
Carlton

Carlton, we have a wealth of information about SDAs and alot of it came from the residing Dr.
..
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19053&highlight=srs+tweeters

There are other threads on how to do the smaller series of SDAs in the search engine.

TroyD

honestaquarian,

First, welcome. Glad to see another SDA fanatic roaming the forum.

I got to point out though, there are many on here that have owned SDA since it's inception and, to be honest, you aren't really revealing anything here that hasn't been beat to a bloody pulp here over the years. Good on ya if you want to expound, but, honestly...been there done that.If you are interested in some really cool/geeky SDA things, F1Nut has upgraded the x-overs in his 2.3tl's and upgraded his CRS+'s to 4.1tl's.

BDT

honestaquarian

TroyD wrote:

honestaquarian,

First, welcome. Glad to see another SDA fanatic roaming the forum.

I got to point out though, there are many on here that have owned SDA since it's inception and, to be honest, you aren't really revealing anything here that hasn't been beat to a bloody pulp here over the years. Good on ya if you want to expound, but, honestly...been there done that.If you are interested in some really cool/geeky SDA things, F1Nut has upgraded the x-overs in his 2.3tl's and upgraded his CRS+'s to 4.1tl's.

BDT

BDT
Thank you for the welcome.If you take a look at some of the pics of some peoples setups.you will see why i decided to put that posting up.Also take a look around ebay for SDA speakers that get put up for auction.Often i send them some info about the common grounding issue.It NEVER ceases to amaze me how many people do not know about THAT either.Like i said in my response to F1nut.I try never to make assumptions about people i do not know and have never met.On the contrary i see people doing JUST THAT all the time.People tend to assume that since this is the way i do things and this is the way i think and this is what works for me(and of course all of my friends are like this as well)Then EVERYONE must be like that.Which is why i put a ME section on ebay that talks about making assumptions about potential bidders and the resulting breakdown in communication that usually ends in negative feedback.
Again thanks for the welcome!
Carlton(aquario67 on ebay)

madmax

honestaquarian wrote:

Your setup is WAAAAAYY beyond MY means dude.I am seething with envy!Have your SRS's given you the ability to hear the difference between the high end electronics each time you upgrade or change?
Carlton

Carlton,
Nothing is that far from your means. One piece at a time over many years, not to mention used equipment, is how I did mine. Otherwise I'd be sitting around listening to pretty low level stuff.

The SDA's have responded in a very dramatic way to each and every upgrade. If I switch back to lesser interconnects or a lower end preamp I end up sitting there hating life. I'm hoping the SDA's continue to respond as they have as I move up the chain.

Just for the record, F1Nut has one of the best SDA setups I have ever heard.

madmax

TroyD

honestaquarian wrote:

BDT
Thank you for the welcome.If you take a look at some of the pics of some peoples setups.you will see why i decided to put that posting up.Also take a look around ebay for SDA speakers that get put up for auction.Often i send them some info about the common grounding issue.It NEVER ceases to amaze me how many people do not know about THAT either.Like i said in my response to F1nut.I try never to make assumptions about people i do not know and have never met.On the contrary i see people doing JUST THAT all the time.People tend to assume that since this is the way i do things and this is the way i think and this is what works for me(and of course all of my friends are like this as well)Then EVERYONE must be like that.Which is why i put a ME section on ebay that talks about making assumptions about potential bidders and the resulting breakdown in communication that usually ends in negative feedback.
Again thanks for the welcome!
Carlton(aquario67 on ebay)

That's cool, and I'm not busting your hump, I'm just saying, most of the info you are giving out can be had just by perusing the manual, which, Polk will still provide, free of charge.

BDT

Dennis Gardner

honestaquarian wrote:

I have my SDA-1C's exactly three feet from the sidewalls.The size of my listening room would allow no further.Measured from the front baffle of the loudspeakers(the part that the woofers and tweeters are mounted to and that the grille attaches to)to the back wall they are as follows:39 inches from the rear well behind them.18 inches from the front baffle to the plane of the front of the equipment rack and television.PLEASE NOTE THE EQUIPMENT RACK IS PLACED BACK BEHIND THE FRONT BAFFLE OF THE SPEAKERS.NOT ON THE SAME PLANE OR OUT AHEAD OF THE FRONT OF THE SPEAKERS.This is also one of the more common errors in placement that i have noticed.The equipment rack being one of the large pieces of furniture i spoke of above.

SDAs 39 inches out from the rear wall?

Don't you lose alot of bass reinforcement? That puts them out in the middle of my room! I've seen others put them even with the plane of the front of an equipment rack, but 18 inches in front of the rack is more like an audiophile placement of any other speaker, including the toe-in.

honestaquarian

Please read my answer a little more carefully.I said that THE FRONT BAFFLE IS 39 INCHES FROM THE WALL.In other words that measurement was taken from the wall to the front of the speaker.NOT the rear.The reason why the FRONT of the speaker(again NOT the rear)is 18 inches ahead of the FRONT of the equipment rack is to try and reduce early reflections which smear the image.I have NO problems with loss of bass.Please read my posting a little more carefully.I said that"The bass from this rig is UNBELIEVABLE.As well as possibly LEASE BREAKING.Since i live in a small apartment building(only four apartments)I try to watch movies when my neighbors aren't home."
Thanks for responding to my posting.
Carlton

honestaquarian

TroyD wrote:

That's cool, and I'm not busting your hump, I'm just saying, most of the info you are giving out can be had just by perusing the manual, which, Polk will still provide, free of charge.

BDT

I agree with you 100% and if you take another look at my posting you will see towards the beginning.

"It is quite simply placing the speakers in the listening room in the manner recommended by Polk Audio."

Again the reason for my posting was simply because i noted a LOT of people aren't following those instructions and therefore not getting the best out of their SDA's.Some of the rooms i have seen are not the problem(as in too small,or lots of large furniture,etc)I just did it in the hopes that someone will take note of it and try something different.I'm sure in a few years(hell even a few months!)Someone ELSE will put up a similar posting.This is a GOOD thing to keep the communication open.Even if it HAS been discussed before.Not everyone has seen the info.There are new people like myself getting on all the time.

honestaquarian

madmax wrote:

Carlton,
Nothing is that far from your means. One piece at a time over many years, not to mention used equipment, is how I did mine. Otherwise I'd be sitting around listening to pretty low level stuff.

The SDA's have responded in a very dramatic way to each and every upgrade. If I switch back to lesser interconnects or a lower end preamp I end up sitting there hating life. I'm hoping the SDA's continue to respond as they have as I move up the chain.

Just for the record, F1Nut has one of the best SDA setups I have ever heard.

madmax

Ah the dread disease Audoiphilia Nervosa.YA GOTTA LOVE IT!!!

univera

:eek:

read-alot wrote:

Twenty years ago I lived in a house that did absolutley nothing for my SDAs so I bought another house, that helped them tremendously so much so that I bought a few more sets. When I get over this damn bird flu Im replacing the caps, resistors and polys. ditto on what's been said already

Good luck with the bird flu. Try chicken soup....

read-alot

univera wrote:

:eek:
Good luck with the bird flu. Try chicken soup....

Just got back from the doc; 1 shot of Rocephin in the left cheek, 1 pack of zithromax, 1 round of steriods and some tussinex. Xrayed my chest and still waiting on someone to read them. Whatever this is will come, bleed or blister after all this dope.

F1nut

Geez.......that sucks. I hope you're feeling better soon.

read-alot

F1nut wrote:

Geez.......that sucks. I hope you're feeling better soon.

Thank You Jesse, I don't care what they all say, you're ok in my book.

ohskigod

read-alot wrote:

Just got back from the doc; 1 shot of Rocephin in the left cheek, 1 pack of zithromax, 1 round of steriods and some tussinex. Xrayed my chest and still waiting on someone to read them. Whatever this is will come, bleed or blister after all this dope.

holy **** dude, did you roll around in chicken coups on a trip to asia or something? wtf happenned?

hope you get better. I am assuming your are at the least congested out the wazoo in the lungs to warrant that med regiment and treatment.

read-alot

The little cold turned into major chest congestion and apparently it spreads like wildfire, guys are in the hospital with it at work. That shot in the buttock was the silver bullet and it felt like it.

honestaquarian

Man i hope you get it all out of your system.Is it really the bird flu?Or just a bad regular kind of flu?

DRINK LOT'S OF LIQUIDS AND PISS IT OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM!!!!!!

reeltrouble1

Glad your feeling better, sure hope that crud stays away from me.

Take Care RT1.