Finalize CDs

jm1

To start, this thread will be about a subject that some may find very controversial. If you find that you can not accept the finding of this author or others who have tried this or a similar process, please move on to another thread without replying with any snide, offhand or witty remarks. Neither I nor anyone else is forcing you to read this post and respond. Some threads within the forum have had a tendency to escalate out of control thereby reducing the effectiveness of any positive contributions.

Several weeks ago, I found a reference about a NESPA #1 CD Finalizer. Normally I would have placed an inline link to the manufacturer’s site, but all I have found to date has been a site in an Asian language. I did manage to find two reviews of the unit at 6moons and Positive Feedback along with a user review at Audio Asylum. There are also several threads on Audio Asylum and Audiogon regarding the NESPA #1 and NESPA Pro units.

I will not go into the details of how the NESPA units function as this is not quite the intent of this thread. The 6moons review has a good explanation of the unit and proposes a theory as to why these machines work. Please read this review for further details.

After reading the 6moon’s review, I started to ponder about the machine and the process in general. Last weekend was hot and sunny. As I sat there watching the kids play, I could envision someone leaving a CD on a table, later discovering that their precious disc had been exposed to direct sunlight for some unknown time. After agonizing for a period of time over the possibility that the disc could be ruined and might not play on their SOTA system, they finally muster the courage to insert the disc and press play. The disc plays, immediately calming their fears that the music was forever lost and life continues on, only now its better than before.

I was then brought back to reality by the happy screaming of two kids. Reflecting on that prior vision, I thought that since it was a sunny day, I would try to expose a disc to some direct sunlight for several minutes and see what happened. I listened to one song, went outside with a disc in hand and let the disc warm in the glow of the sun. My wife looked at me, then the disc, rolled her eyes while shaking her head and made some comment. When I thought the discs were done, I tried to go back to listen to the results. I was not able to listen to the results as both the kids and wife demanded my attention. I listened later in the evening, but it was inconclusive if there were any differences.

Not wanting (nor able according to the wife) to spend another $1000 on audio equipment, I pondered more and came to the conclusion that a bright light should work as the NESPA units appear to use a halogen bulb. I recalled seeing some powerful spotlights and conducted more online research to see if others had tried this approach. Sure enough, someone had tried several different intensities and finally ended using a 10M candlepower spotlight. On my way home yesterday, I stopped at Canadian Tire. They had several different intensities and happened to have a Sunforce 10M candlepower spotlight on sale. What luck!

I happen have two copies of a Stevie Wonder two disc set due to shipping errors by a mail order company. I thought this would be a perfect candidate for trying this process as I could listen to an ‘exposed’ and ‘unexposed’ copy of the disc. I took one CD set and exposed each disc to one minute of light by putting a disc on the floor and placing the spotlight over the disc. I did note while exposing disc one that it had what looked to be fine scratches in one spot. I then gave the wife all four CD so she could shuffle them so I would not know which disc had been exposed.

Later last evening, I had the opportunity to directly compare the discs against each other. All discs were placed label up on the coffee table. Disc one was compared to disc one; disc two to disc two. I repeated this process for almost one hour periodically reshuffling the discs. It was apparent that one of the pair was distinctly better sounding that the other. At the conclusion of comparing both disc one's and disc two's of the set, I then turned over both disc one’s to examine the playing surface. The better sounding disc had the fine scratches I noted while exposing the disc to the spotlight.

I exposed a CD of Vivaldi's 'Four Seasons' performed by Tafelmusik. I have used this disc in the past to audition equipment for potential purchase and for listening to several high end systems in local retailer’s facilities. I listened pre and post exposure. I found that post exposure, the music was more alive and I would swear that I heard sounds I have not noted in the past.

What I found is that exposure to the high intensity spotlight may have lowered the background noise of the disc. I found that everything had a more precise location within the soundstage with better separation. There was more detail and texture to every type of sound (instrument or vocal). Overall, I am quite pleased with the results.

I am quite perplexed as how exposure to a high intensity light might affect change on a CD. Was it the intensity of the light or was it the heat from the bulb? What physical property of the disc changed? At this point, I am not sure, but it does not appear to harm the disc in any manor. Maybe in time as more experiment with this process, explanations will be presented clarifying the changes.

I will be continuing to expose discs in my collection in the coming days to hear what changes present themselves. So far, this has been a rewarding experience for a minimal investment. I plan on keeping the two distinct copies of the Stevie Wonder; one exposed and one not exposed. If the wife is willing, I would like to perform the test on her as I have not explained exactly why I am doing this to the discs.


This has been my experience to date with this process with my system in my acoustic environment. Due to the subtitle, yet significant nature of the changes, I would like to put forth that all may not be able to experience these changes within the context of their system and acoustical environment. It may sound harsh and I may get into trouble for saying this, but I do not want someone trying this, finding no difference, then saying here or elsewhere that this is a bunch of BS. I have two identical sets of discs that sound distinctly different and the only thing I did to one set was to shine a large flashlight on them for one minute.


Now might be the appropriate time to retrieve all the LPs from storage and purchase a turntable and phono pre. At least if I made some changes to make the TT setup sound better, I might be able to formulate a plausible explanation of why it improved.



Till next tweak,


JM1


PS – Sorry for the length; this was much longer than anticipated.

madmax

So are you saying that exposing them to bright light does the same thing as this product for sale?
madmax

Edit: BTW, what do you mean by sounding "better" and did you heat the disc at all with the light?

steveinaz

Interesting read...

jm1

Max,

There are some references in forum postings indicating spotlight exposure is similar to using the NESPA units. The NESPA units also expose the disc to a bright light that is pulsed about once a second on a spinning disc. Here is a reference I quickly found on AA.

It is now time to experiment with some low cost discs to determine if there is an optimum exposure duration or if multiple exposures are required.

Sorry if I was not clear, but my intent is to describe what I observed using the spotlight, not to contrast the spotlight exposure to the NESPA unit. Maybe one day I will be able to compare a NESPA treated disc to a spotlight treated disc. For now, all I have is the spotlight.


Taken from the original post:

'What I found is that exposure to the high intensity spotlight may have lowered the background noise of the disc. I found that everything had a more precise location within the soundstage with better separation. There was more detail and texture to every type of sound (instrument or vocal).'


While listening to the unexposed discs, it sounds like there is a background noise present. The exposed discs do not have this same characteristic noise present. You could say that the exposed discs have a 'blacker' background. When you switch between the two discs, I immediately noticed the difference. It was also easier to hear the distinct location (layering) and boundary of each sound due to the removal of the background noise. Everything was also clearer; you could hear more inflections in the Stevie's voice; I could hear plucking of violin string where I have never noted this before...


Additionally, due to the intensity of the light source, the disk did get moderately warm after one minute of exposure. Before I exposed any music discs, I exposured on an old computer disc for three minute. It did not have any problems after exposure.

madmax

jm1 wrote:

'What I found is that exposure to the high intensity spotlight may have lowered the background noise of the disc. I found that everything had a more precise location within the soundstage with better separation. There was more detail and texture to every type of sound (instrument or vocal).'

Oops, I thought I digested the post completely...

Here are a few pics of the setup I've been playing with. No results yet but I am presently trying a much brighter bulb. I am not pulsing the light but due to speed variations in the setup I doubt it matters at this stage. You cannot see it in the pic but I also have it set up to either allow the disc to become heated up or a high speed fan to keep it a little cooler. Fun stuff for sure.
madmax

jm1

Let me know what source (pictures look like the mini halogen bulbs) you used for the test and your listening impressions. It would be more elegant to have something other than a huge flashlight, but I guess its the end results that count.

Before I start exposing all my discs, I will be conducting some experiments to determine what produces the best results as the initial trials have been promising. I will be looking in the local bargin bins for multiple copies of one CD. I plan on getting about five copies;

1 - no exposure, baseline reference
2 - only heat exposure
3 - only high intensity light exposure
4 - both heat and light exposure
5 - repeated exposures of the best from above

I am also going to use some type of rotating platter so the discs get even exposure. There must be some sort of toy around the house that the kids will not miss.

Good luck.

madmax

I have a high intensity halogen bulb over the disc. The disc is spinning at approximately 900 rpm. My plan is to try burning two copies from an original and use those two as the DUT and standard but I am unsure whether burned copies make for a good test as possibly they may react different than originals, maybe due to the burning process. I just don't know for sure but that is where I'm heading.
madmax

PolkThug

Sounds like fun and you tried to be honest with yourself, which I commend.

My only criticism was to have more trials, but it sounds like that is what you are going to do.

Regards

jm1

Max,

On Audiogon in the forums (forget which one), there is a thread were people have been treating original and copies of discs and compared it to several copy methods. You might want to have a look there for further information.

Thug,

I did an objective comparison of exposed to non-exposed discs. I am convinced of the results. The next step is to determine the optimum treatment method. I would also like to know if it is heat or light or a combination of both. If there had been many negative remarks regarding this process (like green or black marking, demagnetizing etc) with the minimal amount of information available, I may not have wasted my time trying this.


Regards.

jm1

Just a quick update...

I returned the 10M candlepower spotlight mentioned in the original post and purchased a gray 15M candlepower spotlight for $10 less. Also, the new spotlight is not orange in color. Call me vain, but a gray color will not look as peculiar when stored in the audio room.

I have not been able to find multiple copies of cheap discs I could consider for testing? Actually, I have not been able to find many cheap discs?? They were once abundant in bins at any store, but now they have all vanished. If I do find some, I will perform the above mentioned treatment comparisons.

I have been experimenting with library and personal discs. The main focus has been to try to isolate what is producing the best results. When a disc is placed on a table for treatment, it is difficult to determine if there are improvements. When the disc is placed on carpet and treated, the desired results are produced. This has been consistent for all the discs I have treated.

Discs treated on a table top do not get as warm as discs treated on the carpet. I suspect heat from the spotlight may play an important role in the process. I will now try treating discs by placing them on a towel on the table, listen to the results, then treat on carpet to see if there are differences.

The significant other of a coworker is a fellow audiophile. I let the couple borrow the treated and untreated discs mentioned in the original post. I asked them to indicate with a post-it note which disc they preferred. It was immediately apparent to her which disc sounded better. He took longer to determine which disc he preferred. Both choose the treated disc one of the CD set. I now feel better as it is clear my perceived outcome is not the result of my desire for this process to work.

I will be giving the treated copy of the disc one a second treatment with the 15M spotlight to see if there are further improvements.

The current price for a Nespa Pro is about CDN$950. For what the unit consists of, I think I will stand aside until the uniqueness has run its course and the North American distributor sets a realistic price. There also may be other units in development as you read this. If I find I can not wait, I will try to find a unit from Asia or Europe where a more suitable price is being charged. For now, all I have is the 15M spotlight. It provides results I definitely can live with for a $39.99 investment.


Regards.

Refefer

For cheap cds, you might want to think about shopping at www.half.com

I find that I can get popular discs for around $3-$3.50 shipped new or slightly used.

Midnite Mick

I don't remember reading this thread. Wonder why it died so quickly as it would appear that this would make for a long thread. Any follow up to these experiments? So this treatment then is a one time thing?

Mike

jm1

I have no idea why this thread died a sudden death. I could hazard a guess, but that would only be speculation on my part.

I treat all my discs in this manor and this is a permanent treatment. Give it a try to see if it does something for you.

Systems

Interesting stuff jm1,I will have to give this a try.

mlhm5

I have a 2 million candlepower spotlight. Would that work?

bikezappa

jm1

Consider giving your friend 2 new identical CDs untreated and asking them which one sounds better. Then treat one of the CDs and ask them to repeat the first test. Then give them both CDs that are treated and repeat the test.

Tell them that you are trying to optimize the treatment process and will tell them the results later. Maybe have them just play one song on the CD to save time.

Light has diffenent frequencies also.

Ricardo

I didn't read the whole thing or the link to reviews...but this reminds me when I was in charge of a bottles filling line; we went from printed bottles to in line labels. The first labels supplier (vinyl) used a crappy film that didn't flow as expected, creating jams in the labeler every couple of minutes. The tech. pack. guy had the great idea that reducing the temperature of the film would make it work...he brought a freezer and we put the label rolls in it for a few hours. Of course everyone thought the guy had lost it...just imagine the technicians....Well, after having those rolls in the freezer, the damn labeler worked perfectly. Stiffeening the vinyl film a bit was all that was required.

No relation at all with this thread, but just to show that what might look like a crazy idea, sometimes works.

jm1

mlhm5,

I recall someone trying different intensities and ended up using the 10M spotlight. Try it to see if it provides any benefits. If not, try a higher intensity.


bikezappa,

The coworker has moved on to greener pastures. It is rather inconvenient meeting with her at this time to exchange discs. Other friends/coworkers either are not into ‘audio’ or prefer the 'benefits' of MP3 media. One day I may acquire a Nespa (or equivalent?) unit to satisfy my curiosity. Until that day, I am satisfied with the current results and will continue to use the spotlight.

"Light has diffenent frequencies also."

Are you referring to the spectrum produced by the spotlight? The spectrum produced by the Nespa light source? The wavelength used to read CDs? Not sure where you are going with this statement.

WilliamM2

I have a 2 million candlepower spotlight. Would that work?

It should have the same effect...none.

jm1

WilliamM2 wrote:

It should have the same effect...none.

Sorry to hear it did not work for you.

vhabaygiurbm

Great post, thanks!

xsb7244

did anybody buy a Nespa Pro or had a demo?

audiobliss

This has me wondering...is the exposure to the spotlight (or NESPA unit) render permanent results? Or must the disc be treated everytime before being played? Or just periodically?