SPL Meter VS YPAO on RXV2600
Hi there,
I've been playing with the setup of my system. I've recently added a set of FXi3's to the RT8 fronts, 12" CV sub CS250 center, and Yammy SBack.
When I added the FXi3's, I just connected them to the current setup (A mixture of SPL, mic and tweaking) and they sounded plain excellent after kicking up the level a couple of clicks in the 2600. However, I wanted to set them up properly, so I headed down the path below.
I setup the system first with the YPAO mic of the Yammy, but didn't like the result, so I seyup it up with an SPL meter according to the 2600 manual. The results were similar, except the SPL meter was of lower dB setting than the mic. What does this mean? For instance, the SPL gave 0.0dB's for the fronts, while the mic gave +4.5dB. The overall results showed the mic approx +4.5dB above the SPL meter.
Regardless of the results from both setups, I still didn't like the result and tweaked it by ear - I like the center, sub and Surrounds a couple of clicks above the results stated.
AS with the SPL meter, the manual says to hold it at arms length facing up, while I've read a post here that the meter should be pointed at the center on a 45 degree angle to the horizontal. Does it really make a differnce? I did use a tripod mounted in the middle of the couch (Midway between two listeners) at ear height.
The result from the mic made the movie (Blade 3 DTS 6.1ES) sound very full, somehow muddled (almost overpowering) without a lot of differentiation between the select sounds.
The SPL meter made the sound flat (like it was dead somehow) although the sound seemed to acheive a more subtle ambience - perhaps more fully immersive
My own tweaking seemed to result in the dialogue clearer, the surounds diffuse with detailed subtlety and clarity, the Sback quite active and the fronts acting more like detail sounds in the quieter scences. I'm still not satisfied. Sorry but I don't have the audio vocabulary to describe what I'm actually hearing.
Also, the 2600 selected the FXi3's as "large" (Polk suggested they be set to small) Should the sub be sharing the bass with the fronts?
I could really do with some pointers. Thx in adv.
Groover.
I've been playing with the setup of my system. I've recently added a set of FXi3's to the RT8 fronts, 12" CV sub CS250 center, and Yammy SBack.
When I added the FXi3's, I just connected them to the current setup (A mixture of SPL, mic and tweaking) and they sounded plain excellent after kicking up the level a couple of clicks in the 2600. However, I wanted to set them up properly, so I headed down the path below.
I setup the system first with the YPAO mic of the Yammy, but didn't like the result, so I seyup it up with an SPL meter according to the 2600 manual. The results were similar, except the SPL meter was of lower dB setting than the mic. What does this mean? For instance, the SPL gave 0.0dB's for the fronts, while the mic gave +4.5dB. The overall results showed the mic approx +4.5dB above the SPL meter.
Regardless of the results from both setups, I still didn't like the result and tweaked it by ear - I like the center, sub and Surrounds a couple of clicks above the results stated.
AS with the SPL meter, the manual says to hold it at arms length facing up, while I've read a post here that the meter should be pointed at the center on a 45 degree angle to the horizontal. Does it really make a differnce? I did use a tripod mounted in the middle of the couch (Midway between two listeners) at ear height.
The result from the mic made the movie (Blade 3 DTS 6.1ES) sound very full, somehow muddled (almost overpowering) without a lot of differentiation between the select sounds.
The SPL meter made the sound flat (like it was dead somehow) although the sound seemed to acheive a more subtle ambience - perhaps more fully immersive
My own tweaking seemed to result in the dialogue clearer, the surounds diffuse with detailed subtlety and clarity, the Sback quite active and the fronts acting more like detail sounds in the quieter scences. I'm still not satisfied. Sorry but I don't have the audio vocabulary to describe what I'm actually hearing.
Also, the 2600 selected the FXi3's as "large" (Polk suggested they be set to small) Should the sub be sharing the bass with the fronts?
I could really do with some pointers. Thx in adv.
Groover.
Post edited by groover on
Comments
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ummm lets see.... yes your FXi3's should be set to small.. they ARE small.
Using the auto set up in your Yammy sounds like it's working properely.. because, when you set it up manually.. it gave you similar results. So what you are trying to achieve is more of a "preference" for more volume out of your surround. Nothing wrong with that.. just bump them up till you find your happy place.
The risk you run though is that you may find that in some other movies that surround will sound to loud now. Yeah you can go back in the menu and lower the volume setting again.. but it's a PITA to adjust the volume for surround or center every time you watch a different movie.
See if instead you can find a balance of what the SPL meter says.. and where you like the surround volume from your FXi3's. Leave the setting there for a few weeks and forget about it. If it truely doesn't satisfy your needs, then adjust to volume.
Surround speakers are only there for effects.. not full on volume like you'd expect from your main fronts. I went around and around on this point with a co-worker of mine. He wasn't happy with the volume of his surrounds either. They sounded fine to me.. he just was expecting the same level of volume from his surround as from his center and fronts. So I showed him how to adjust the surround volume on his Onkyo and quickly left the house and headed for the nearest bar.
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danger boy wrote:ummm lets see.... yes your FXi3's should be set to small.. they ARE small.
Using the auto set up in your Yammy sounds like it's working properely.. because, when you set it up manually.. it gave you similar results. So what you are trying to achieve is more of a "preference" for more volume out of your surround. Nothing wrong with that.. just bump them up till you find your happy place.
The risk you run though is that you may find that in some other movies that surround will sound to loud now. Yeah you can go back in the menu and lower the volume setting again.. but it's a PITA to adjust the volume for surround or center every time you watch a different movie.
See if instead you can find a balance of what the SPL meter says.. and where you like the surround volume from your FXi3's. Leave the setting there for a few weeks and forget about it. If it truely doesn't satisfy your needs, then adjust to volume.
Thx for the advice. Leaving it for a while is always a good punt - you grow into the lsitening environment. You're also right about different movies sounding different. Thankfully I just sorted out the memory function on the 2600 last night for easy swtiching between setups. Saves a heap of time and great for comparisons. I'll keep striving forward -
In my opinion you would use the mic to get the sound "ballpark" balanced. Then make minor tweaks based on your listening preferences, which is what you've done.
I would guess the circuitry in the Yamaha is matched to the response of their supplied mic and would more correctly reflect the dynamics of the system.
As to the difference in levels, I have worked in the electronics test and measurement field for some 15 odd years or so, and the measurement of sound levels/pressure is not an exact science. There is a fair amount of innacuracy in it (compared to the accuracy of other types of measurements like voltage, power, frequency etc), and it can be heavily influenced by the position of the measuring device, and the dynamics of the room.
While the SPL meter if of decent quality may be providing more accurate absolute levels, what is important is the levels of each speaker of the system relevant to each other.The Family
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Zen Dragon wrote:In my opinion you would use the mic to get the sound "ballpark" balanced. Then make minor tweaks based on your listening preferences, which is what you've done.
I would guess the circuitry in the Yamaha is matched to the response of their supplied mic and would more correctly reflect the dynamics of the system.
As to the difference in levels, I have worked in the electronics test and measurement field for some 15 odd years or so, and the measurement of sound levels/pressure is not an exact science. There is a fair amount of innacuracy in it (compared to the accuracy of other types of measurements like voltage, power, frequency etc), and it can be heavily influenced by the position of the measuring device, and the dynamics of the room.
While the SPL meter if of decent quality may be providing more accurate absolute levels, what is important is the levels of each speaker of the system relevant to each other.
Well stated. I have found with experimentation that the arena of sound I like is somewhere in between the mic and the SPL meter. I have also found the mic does an excellent job of setting up speaker distances and the like, however, if the AutoSetup is run several times, the result is wildly different each time. It would appear the first time it is run is the most accurate, so I don't know what the unit is doing after that? Will keep tweaking, but sooner or later you have to be satisifed and call it a day. Main trouble is that each movie is different as already stated and often tweaks need to take place during the action. Oh well...
