Seperate amp for 7's?

jakelm

Im looking at a Carver 400t to drive stacked 7's as front left and right channel on my 6.1 system. Any info on this amp would be appreciated and if anyone has any good ideas for a nice amp to drive these speakers, your input is welcome. I would like to stay around 200wpc @ 6 ohms and around $200. Ebay is where it looks like I will be purchasing from. Any other ideas on what to look for there?

I already have a Hafler DH-200 and would like something around those specs for the 7's. Unfortunatly that amp has my subs to deal with for right now otherwise I would use it for the 7's.

Jake

ND13

jakelm wrote:

stacked 7's as front left and right channel

Jake

Meaning that you have 4 total?? One on top of the other on each side???

jakelm

Yes, 4, they are stacked, one on top of the other laying on their side. =tv= Just like that. "=" is the speakers. I'm just trying to find an amp for them (all 4) that will do them justice.

ND13

That's not good for the staging/imaging capabilities of that speaker. Maybe try standing them up with the tweets close to each other as an experiment to see if they sound even better. I used to run a double Advent system like that and it was amazing.

As far as the amp goes, I've no real experience with Carver amps, but for the most part, they are very solid amps from what I've heard and read. They are more desirable series of Carvers than others, I just don't recall which series is the least desirable.

jakelm

It would be a balancing act to get them standing straight up one on top of the other with the tweeters in the middle, close together, like a tower. I found laying them on the side with the tweeters towords the tv is the best for me. And I promise you, IMO its very hard to mess up the staging on these baby's. The only way I found to mess things up is to put the tweeters too far apart. If they were standing straight, like a tower, I'm afraid my 2 boys would have thier lives in danger.

jakelm

I have them hooked in parralell, so the ohms are down to about 3.4pc. Since each speaker is right above 6ohms each. My Onkyo does just fine, but eventually I will get seperate amps for the whole system.

Tour2ma

Most Carver power amps are going cheap right now. You can probably buy two M-400t's, today for what one would have cost last year.

Look for the M-400t. I think they are a bit better than the originals which are called either just plain 400 or sometimes the 400a.

And twin LSi 7's wired in parallel is no bueno... Load would be 2-ohm. If you are going to run one 2 ch amp, wire the 7's in series.

ND13

Tour,
He's running Monitor 7Bs;)

jakelm

Yes Tour, vintage 7b's.

Tour2ma

Memo to self... Read the sig's...

Ok then, wired in parallel = 4-ohms...

The 400t would handle them, but you might want a bit more oomph...

The M-1.5t or 4.0t would be better choices. Both models are in the upper 300's wpc-wise with double that in short term power, ALA headroom.

While both their prices are depressed right now, the 4.0's are holding better, whereas 1.5t's have dropped like a stone... sickeningly so for those of us sitting on one or more of them... I've seen a couple 1.5's go on ebay lately for the same price of a 400t... or less.

If you go the 1.5t route, go after one with a serial number >10,000. This was the last of three generations of 1.5t and they got really sweeter sounding. Only buy an earlier one if it was serviced by Carver (Sunfire) as they updated them as part of the service package.

They did this to my original one with an S/N in the 2000's... Came back sounding like a different amp. And I mean different in a good way...

Happy hunting...

jakelm

Thanks Tour. I will look for the 1.5T

jakelm

I found one that has ser#9473. I guess thats not the one your talking about.

Tour2ma

From roughly 5000 to 10,000 was the second generation. I've not heard one so I cannot comment on it relative to Gen 3.

How much would you have to give for it?

jakelm

I'm trying to stay around $200. Thats why I'm looking at vintage. I dont know if I mentioned this but I'm going to use my Hafler DH-200 on the 7's and find a more powerfull amp for my 2 subs.

jakelm

The DH-200 @4ohms is around 200wpch, which is perfect for the 7's.

ND13

I may be mistaken, but isn't the Hafler a pro amp? If so, I'd leave the Hafler on sub duty. Check out AGon and EBay. You should be able to find a home audio amp for under $300 that will do the job.

jakelm

I dont know ND13, pro or not it sound excellent with the 7's. But your saying that a "pro" amp can be driven harder? Compared to the Carver M-400t or something of that quality?

I never really knew the difference between a pro amp and a home audio amp.

ND13

Pro amps tend not to be as musical as amps designed for home audio use, but are great for use as sub amps.

If it sounds good to you, then that's all that matters, right?:)

jakelm

Well, would a 200watt proamp (Hafler) be compared to a 400watt (Carver) home audio amp?

jakelm

I was thinking of getting plate amps for the subs, but all of the plate amps I've seen have a subsonic filter that I DO NOT LIKE!!

ND13

I'm not sure if your Hafler even is a pro amp or not. I was kinda asking you, if you knew or not???:o

Edit-Here's a good review of your amp. Looks to be a nice amp.:) :cool:

.http://www.hogheaven.com/diyaudio/projects/DH200/DH200review.html:

jakelm

Oh yes..I didnt think it was pro because of the RCA input connections in the back. Unssualy from what I'ves seen input connections on pro are the "headphone" type connections.

Hafler vintage is very good quality, IMO, and other opinions in www.diyaudio.com too

Zen Dragon

jakelm wrote:

Well, would a 200watt proamp (Hafler) be compared to a 400watt (Carver) home audio amp?

:eek:

Shhhhhh, you'll get the Carver fans in a tizzy with questions like that! It could get ugly.

Actually I have owned the DH-220 in the past. It is a solid and reliable amplifier with decent power reserves. I would not put the Hafler in the same class as Carver gear. The Carver is going to go deeper, push harder, and be more musical.

Now somebody buy a round of drinks for the Carver fans here before things get ugly.

jakelm

LOL, Zen. I was just comparing the DH-200 to te M-400t, thats all. Seems they are in the same price point on E-bait.

But thanks.. Deeper and lower, than the DH-200, or you sure? Where are all those Hafler fans...and lets get the Infinity fans here too..:D :eek:

Oh ohhh.:eek: .I said the wrong word..sub...SVS wont be long either..

Tour2ma

I bought a DH-200 off of polkatese years ago. Not a pro amp, but was available as a kit as well as factory assembled.

It's superior to the M-400 IMO. M-1.5t... different story.

jm,
If you can bag that M-1.5t for $200, I'd say do it. If you don't end up liking it, I think a couple months down the road, when word that a new Carver repair center is out there, you'll be able to sell it for more than $200.

jakelm

That m-1.5t for $200? Which one are you talking about?

jakelm

This might be a stupid question, but, what is a XLR input and a T.R.S input? Can you implement this into home audio?

I recognize it from PA system but never in home audio.

Zen Dragon

jakelm wrote:

This might be a stupid question, but, what is a XLR input and a T.R.S input? Can you implement this into home audio?

I recognize it from PA system but never in home audio.

jakelm:
Both of these connector types are for balanced audio connections. I beleive they use an additional shield. The benefits are they reduce noise on the line, and allow for longer cable runs with less signal loss.
XLR's are what you will sometimes find on higher end audio equipment. The connector looks like the connector you would plug a microphone into. On home audio it is usually used for it's lower noise floor.
TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) looks more like the kind of cable you would plug into a PA system. They were also used extensively by the phone company to allow long wire runs without much signal loss. They are sometimes found on audio routing equipment ie mixing equipment, but not normally found on home audio equipment, with the exception of headphone jacks.

jakelm

Thanks for the great info Zen. Is there an adapter from XLR to Rca (phono)?

The gain is the same no matter what input you use? No matter if its XLR or TRS?

Also would an amp with these connections be considered a pro amp instead of home audio amp?

Zen Dragon

jakelm wrote:

Thanks for the great info Zen. Is there an adapter from XLR to Rca (phono)?

The gain is the same no matter what input you use? No matter if its XLR or TRS?

Also would an amp with these connections be considered a pro amp instead of home audio amp?

-Yes, there are adapters to go from XLR to RCA. Many amps that have a balanced connector have an RCA as well, and have a selector switch for which you want to use. That is how my B&K is set-up.
-No difference in gain. Simply a lower noise/loss connector.
- The connectors do not determine a pro amp. You usually don't want a pro amp for home use in most situations. Pro amps are designed for commercial type of use. Generally they are high in power, but not as refined in sound quality. They also are often much more tolerant of being bounced around a little bit. Ever watch a sound man or DJ loading or unloading their gear.
The reason the Hafler you mentioned earlier may have been mistaken for pro gear is it is very close to a compromise between the two. It has decent sound, good power, and will take a lot of bouncing around with no ill effects. Many DJ's pick up the Hafler DH-200/220/500 used due to their reliability and ease of repair.

jakelm

The reason for my question is I'm looking at this amp http://cgi.ebay.com/CARVER-PM-350-MAGNETIC-FIELD-POWER-AMPLIFIER-AMP-2-CH_W0QQitemZ9715730735QQcategoryZ71544QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem As you can see is has these types of connection, not the standard RCA type.