Share your LSi speaker Position

cbl117

I thought it would be interesting to see how everyone has their LSis positioned for optimal transparancy and soundstage. I've had a pair of LSi15s for 2 months and never thought I'd be spending this much time tweaking their positioning.

Toe-in - 30 degrees off center axis
Tilt - 1/2 inch tilt up
spacing - 7 feet apart
Listening position - 9 feet away
Distance from front wall - 1.5 feet away

tonyb

Not enough cofee yet to tackle this one.Cut to the chase my friend,what are you hearing that makes you keep tweeking? POSITIONING is only part of the
equation.:)

T-Bone

THIS IS SO CLOSE TO THE QUESTION I WAS GOING TO POST. I NEED HELP! NEW CONSTRUCTION, BOOKSHELVES TO BE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FIREPLACE. THAT BACK WALL IS 17' IN WIDTH. OF COARSE A SPEAKER IN EACH CORNER OF BOTTOM SHELF LOOKS BEST, BUT THAT WILL PUT THEM AT ABOUT 17' APART AIMED AT THE LISTENING AREA AND EACH ABOUT 8' FROM CENTER CHANNEL. IS THIS A NO NO SHOULD I MOVE THE LOW VOLTAGE BOXES FOR THE SPEAKER WIRE IN MORE TOWARDS THE FIREPLACE? I HAVE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY ON THESE LSI9's AND LSIc AND I WANT OPTIMUM SOUND POSITIONS. PLEASE HELP BEFORE THE SHEET ROCKERS START NEXT WEEK. THANKS!

LuSh

I used the Wilson Audio Setup Procedure to help guide me. You can find a link if you use Google. Basically Wilson Audio belives that speakers should provide as much depth as width in soundstage. There are a series of tests, I'm in a cramped space right now so I did the best I could. My speakers are tilted inward so I can no longer see the "inside walls" from the listening position. They are roughly 3 feet from the wall measured from the tweeter back. I'm about 8ft away. The idea (and it worked) was to sacrafice width in image in order to gain depth of soundstage. I prefer, I even went back to my older setup of the speakers being further apart and not as toed in, and I prefered the WASP setup.

cbl117

tonyb wrote:

Not enough cofee yet to tackle this one.Cut to the chase my friend,what are you hearing that makes you keep tweeking? POSITIONING is only part of the
equation.:)

It's not really what I'm hearing, more so its what I'm NOT hearing. I'm not getting a soundstage that extends much past the sides of the speakers. I can tell the music is coming from the towers. The vocals also appear to be coming below eye level and slightly to the right. I know vocals aren't supposed to be centered all the time, but even with tracks where they are to be centered, they're not.

I like how I have it set up now and just wanted to see if my results compare to anyone else using LSi15s.

george daniel

I'll chime in on sat. after I pick mine up

Lsi9

I tend to think if the speaker is satisfying enough position shouldn't be an issue.

michael_w

Ooo which ones are you getting George?

I don't really have any exact measurements of mine (I have 7's) but they're about two / two and a half feet from the back wall, a foot / foot and a half from the side walls and toed in so that I can bearly see the inside sides. They sit on 20 or 22" stands (can't remember) so the tweeters are almost perfectly at ear level.

I'm still struggling to find that perfect position. I've found it hard to get depth with these speakers but maybe it's because I'm in such a small room (8' wide by 13' long).

george daniel

michael_w wrote:

Ooo which ones are you getting George?



Lsi-15's for the bedroom

Frank Z

Lsi9 wrote:

I tend to think if the speaker is satisfying enough position shouldn't be an issue.

You're not serious...are you?

Lsi9

I guess it is different with towers but bookshelves on stands like mine don't make much of a difference once height is not a factor and toeing in really doesnt do anything for imaging, especially when the imaging of the speakers is very good. When you are using speakers as a home theater you tend to set your fronts in uniform with your tv....sufficient separation between the two speakers is essential, once they are placed 6 feet + away from eachother the need to separate them gets diminished as you find the right distance
Having speakers at the right height is more important IMHO, especially the tweeters since high frequencies will sound more localized than the low frequency signal.

cbl117

Lsi9 wrote:

Having speakers at the right height is more important IMHO, especially the tweeters since high frequencies will sound more localized than the low frequency signal.

I agree with that! The biggest difference in imaging was had by only tilting my speakers back a half inch.:eek:

michael_w

Really? Maybe I just sit too close to mine (about 5 feet) but the toe in and distance from the walls issues are very important. I don't really have many ways to play around with height while still maintaing a good stand but they're already at ear level so I think I should be okay there.

tryrrthg

speaker positioning for bookshelf speakers is just as important as floorstander's. Distance from walls will effect bass response, imaging, and soundstage, etc. Speakers don't care if they're sitting on the floor or a stand, both will be effected by the position in the room.

madmax

cbl117 wrote:

I'm not getting a soundstage that extends much past the sides of the speakers. I can tell the music is coming from the towers.

It could be positioning but mine had the same problem UNTIL they broke in. Do you have more than 75 to 150 hours on them? If not, that is most likely your problem. When mine broke in I noticed a drastic change within minutes. The sound totally left the speakers.
madmax

Tour2ma

With traditional Polks, i.e., non-SDA, the room is really going to dictate if and how far the soundstage is going to extend outside the speakers. My best example is when I auditioned the Vandy 2a's. It was a near SDA experience and it was all owed to a tweaked out room and the positioning of the Vandy's... which BTW was done by Vandy technical personel (lay out the $17k for a pair and they'll come to your house, too).

Have to echo Frank, tryrrthg and others... I don't think floorstanders are any less forgiving to position. With height and tilt in play could even argue they are tougher...

I'd say LSi9 must have gotten very lucky with his initial placement and would guess (let me know if I am wrong) that he's listening further away than the speakers are apart, i.e., his listening position and his speakers do not form an equilateral triangle. This opposed to michael w's near field experience.

scottnbnj

cbl117 wrote:

It's not really what I'm hearing, more so its what I'm NOT hearing. I'm not getting a soundstage that extends much past the sides of the speakers. I can tell the music is coming from the towers. The vocals also appear to be coming below eye level and slightly to the right. I know vocals aren't supposed to be centered all the time, but even with tracks where they are to be centered, they're not.

I like how I have it set up now and just wanted to see if my results compare to anyone else using LSi15s.

i'll agree with others in that it's more likely what you *are* hearing,.. strong early reflections. walls, ceiling, floor and other objects near the speaker and listening positions (including behind the listening position and the plane of the front baffles) reflect sound and add to and subtract from (reinforce and cancel) direct sound from the speakers. reflection speed and strength (difference between when direct and reflected sounds arrive and relative levels) are factors in how much of an impact they have along with other things like the music itself, our listening style or what we listen for. i'll second what max said about how these effects can change as lsi's break in too.

getting placement and acoustics right can be a balancing act. for instance while toe-in might lessen the strength of side wall reflections and draw the direct sound response curve closer to the on-axis response of the speaks, it might also increase reflections and their strength from objects between the speaks and sometimes even off of opposing side walls and the speaks themselves.

so, for me and my room, when i toe my 9's in sharply, i get an impressive deep, holographic center soundstage, but it compresses the image to the center too much and i lose a seemless and stable image and soundstage between the center an the speaks. with no toe and some acoustic treatments the depth in the center is not as impressive, but the soundstage is much more seemless and stable between the center and the speaks, clarity is better, the tonal balance is more natural and the bond between the stage and the listening position is stronger.

while i think it's less likely, things like problems or malfunctions with the speaks, gear, wire and connections ~can~ cause problems like you describe. either way for some folks' listening styles, learning about and experimenting with room acoustics, acoustic treatments and placement of not just the speaks and listening position, but also other room contents can be as important as what gear they buy.

)

Lsi9

Tour2ma wrote:

I'd say LSi9 must have gotten very lucky with his initial placement and would guess (let me know if I am wrong) that he's listening further away than the speakers are apart, i.e., his listening position and his speakers do not form an equilateral triangle. This opposed to michael w's near field experience.

Yes you are correct.

scottnbnj

michael_w wrote:

...I've found it hard to get depth with these speakers...

one other thing i've noticed about depth and toe, if each speak has even slightly different degrees of toe, depth can be anemic and no room acoustics or listening position change that i normally use makes it right.

i change placements often. rather than wait until i notice that something isn't right after speaks are repositioned i just make a template (cardboard works) that fits between the first speak placed and the baseboard of the front wall then place the template against the baseboard behind the second speak and drop the speak into place.

for no toe or slight degrees, i'll use a long straight edge that spans across the rear baffles of the pair to align them. for me, in my room, i believe this makes a noticable improvement over just coming close to having the front baffles aligned.

)

cbl117

madmax wrote:

It could be positioning but mine had the same problem UNTIL they broke in. Do you have more than 75 to 150 hours on them? If not, that is most likely your problem. When mine broke in I noticed a drastic change within minutes. The sound totally left the speakers.
madmax

That could be a possibility...I'm gonna guess there's less than 150 hours on my speakers, and most of the hours on them are at lower listening levels.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm really happy with the way they sound. It took two months of tweaking around to get it to a place where I'm happy (for now;) ). I'm sure with a dedicated pre and a good source I'd notice even more improvement.

Thanks for the replies, its nice to get all the opinions I can get!

Tour2ma

Lsi9 wrote:

Yes you are correct.

Every once in a while it happens. Just seemed probably because, with the added distance placement sensitivity decreases. Some afternoon when you've nothing better to do grab a chair and play...

scottnbnj wrote:

i change placements often.

Ah... at long last a kindred spirit...

heiney9

Well, like I've stated before the single biggest improvement I made a few years ago was to start to reposition my speakers and I am very glad I decided to tackle that PITA endevour. After much tweaking they sound better than ever. Mostly I improved the soundstage L/R and F/R and the bass is tight and not a hint of boominess.

The only thing that's still a very small issue is a metal framed glass coffe table in front of my couch. Just for kicks I moved it out of the way and I got an even better response. I could leave it moved out but it's not very practical and the slight improvement in sound doesn't warrant not having the coffee table in it's regular position. So any little change can make a difference then start summing all these changes together and viola! you have achieved your goal.

Placement IS critical if you want to get the most out of your rig.

H9

scottnbnj

treatment and placement of speaks, listening position, the room and its contents are like peeling an onion. every layer of mud you peel off makes the next smaller layer more obvious. where like say, maybe whatever h9's table muddied up might not have been as noticable until after more obvious problems were cleaned up.

)

VR3

Speakers need to be away from the wall.

The minimum should be 2 feet. Notice I said the minimum - 4 to 6 feet from the wall would be great. You wont get any bass reinforcement, but your soundstage would be amazing...

Same goes for side walls...

Tilting, toeing in...

Tour2ma

Lookie at Mr. Audio...

While some speakers are made to be close to the wall, e.g., SDA SRS series, by and large, yes, most should be away. This is especially true of most rear ported designs. But Polk Stu pointed out at TXPFII that the 9's being demon'd in Russman living room were too far from the wall.

Also ideally the space between them should be clear as well. Kinda means a lot of HT set ups, ones with massive RPTV's or Entertainment centers, are eliminated as serous 2 ch rigs right out of the gate.

Lastly, since many dedicated 2 ch's go into a spare, small bedroom. Your listening position needs to be a bit away from the rear wall. Near reflections off of it can eff up imaging.

ClemmonsHoo

Mine are 46" apart and 24" from wall to grill. Really haven't moved them since I plopped them down the first time other than to toe them in a little.