1080p TVs and HDMI

StinkyDog

I noticed that the new 1080p DLP TV's are now pretty widely available and for only around $800 more than the 720p versions (depending on where you shop of course). However I have also read that these TV's, while capable of 1080p resolution, cannot display 1080p through their HDMI inputs. I don't know a whole lot about HDMI yet but I was under the impression that that is the only input so far that is capable of diplaying that resolution. I think component tops out at 720p or 1080i.

While a lot of these latest TV's do upconverting to the 1080p resolution I was wondering if anyone would happen to know why they can't display this through HDMI currently. Will it be a matter of a simple upgrade to have this capability in the future? What about the upconversion that is offered - would there be any noticable loss having component upconverted rather than having a 'pure' 1080p signal? I'm trying to decide if it would be worth it to shell out the extra grand or so for the latest and greatest, and if it will pay off down the road. Thanks for your thoughts!

Sean

sickicw

I would hold out till the summer/fall to get one with the 1080p inputs. also i would look into one that doesn't "fake" the pixels of the 1080p by using wobulation or other method. The only one i can think of off the top of my head is the sony sxrd.

Toxis

95% of the 1080p tv's today cannot accept a true 1080p signal. They downconvert to 1080i and then the tv reprocesses it to 1080p. The HP DLP's are the only tv's on the market to truly accept a p signal right now and I'm sorry but they look like complete **** so what's the point? I'd wait until the new models come out. They're supposed to start releasing true 1080p sets. HDMI can carry an 1080p signal but nothing is outputting it through hdmi. Even the new Toshiba HDDVD set is only doing 720p/1080i. They won't get into 1080p for a few more model changes from what I have been told. The first run of movies are only interlaced and there's no definite word from Blu-Ray so who knows if they'll downsize to 1080i as well or not. This is why I'm not excited about the format war and the new tv's.

RoosterD

Toxis wrote:

95% of the 1080p tv's today cannot accept a true 1080p signal. They downconvert to 1080i and then the tv reprocesses it to 1080p. The HP DLP's are the only tv's on the market to truly accept a p signal right now and I'm sorry but they look like complete **** so what's the point? I'd wait until the new models come out. They're supposed to start releasing true 1080p sets. HDMI can carry an 1080p signal but nothing is outputting it through hdmi. Even the new Toshiba HDDVD set is only doing 720p/1080i. They won't get into 1080p for a few more model changes from what I have been told. The first run of movies are only interlaced and there's no definite word from Blu-Ray so who knows if they'll downsize to 1080i as well or not. This is why I'm not excited about the format war and the new tv's.

It's been a while since I've read up on it, but my Samsung 5678w does input 1080P through the VGA connection. I don't know if that counts or not since I don't know if you can do DVI-VGA or not. For me it doesn't matter though since I have a 3910 on order and it doesn't do 1080P anyway. In 5 years I might be bummed though...
I'd like to add (correct me on this) that higher res through HDMI can have interference in it because of the audio in the same line. That's what I was told by a GM at Magnolia. I know that they aren't exactly the horses mouth and all, but that's what I was told.
I also read that though HDMI has the bandwidth to do 1080P, it's not configured that way or the components on the giving/receiving end aren't capable. Atleast not on the sets we're talking about.

StinkyDog

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of waiting for the newer model lines to start coming out. My current TV is in the process of dying, won't be long now. I'll need to get a new one within the next couple weeks (thankfully I just got my tax return).

So if there's nothing on the market that outputs 1080p, and these TV's can't accept 1080p through their HDMI input, what's the point in releasing these TV's right now? Why wait for another model go-round or two before that capability is added in? Marketing hype I guess, but it doesn't make a lot of sense if you can't fully use it. Upconversion doesn't really count as far as I'm concerned.

StinkyDog

RoosterD wrote:

It's been a while since I've read up on it, but my Samsung 5678w does input 1080P through the VGA connection. I don't know if that counts or not since I don't know if you can do DVI-VGA or not.

Oh yeah, that's' right. I forgot that they can display it through a VGA connection. However I won't be using it as a monitor for my PC so that's kind of out. I'm not familiar with DVI-VGA though.

RoosterD

Another point is how far away from the TV you'll be. I read on AVS (I think) that unless you're sitting within 10ft? of the TV you won't be able to see the difference in 720P and 1080P with 20/20 vision. <- Don't take that as absolute, I just remember reading this information too. Something that you might want to include in your decision. A friend of mine just bought a Sammy 720p 56" from Costco for 1k less than my 1080, so I don't know who made the better purchase. I know that some companies (if not all) don't offer a warranty on their electronics if bought through costco (denon), but does that even matter when you can pretty much return anything to Costco? The flip side to that is will you be getting the same quality? I may have more questions than answers for you LOL.

Toxis

They don't want to release all the new toys all at once. They do "baby steps" to make more money in the long run. Why bring out your best technology and have no where to go from there when you can go halfway and make money then release the best technology and get everyone to re-upgrade? It's a business.

Lsi9

Actually watching 1080i on a 1080p resolution tv is practically the same as a 1080p input on a 1080p tv. The 1080i gets upconverted.

iworkfortweeter

all hdtvs at this point in time accept true resolution from hdmi cables. they send video and audio through a single cable, very nice for us installers! in 2006, there will be an hddvd craze, led by panasonic producing some Blue-Ray hddvd players running around $500. if you're a gamer, wait for ps3, they will be compatable as well.

Gaara

It is not all about the resolution, we had a Westinghouse 37in 1080p lcd next to a sony 40in 720p lcd and the sony won, it wasn't even close. It also is going to depend how far you sit away from the set and the size, a 70in that you are 12ft away from will look better at a higher resloution, then say a 40in at 10ft away. Smaller sizes gain less with higher resolutions, and the farther you sit the less of a impact it has.

1080i doesn't get upconverted to 1080p, it gets deinterlaced.

As for costco, if it is the same make and model I imagine it would be the same quality. I know they have alot of off models, ones that are only found through costco. I believe that these are older models rebadged for costco, leftover stock that needs to be sold. Toshiba does this at the costco in my area.

Jared

sickicw

if you need one now, i would get a sony sxrd. They are on sale everywhere (because new models about to come out). They are pretty much the best projection hd tv out right now because of the simple fact that they have twice as many pixels as all the other 1080p sets. Do some research online (and at your local video store) and you will come to the same conclusion. Oh also one other thing, when demoing a tv at the video store make sure you take into account that some tvs might be hooked up to a power conditioner. Most power conditioners will make your large screen tvs look a lot better, so you need to take this into account. Might even ask the sales person to see the sony hooked up to one. Also ask the sales person what the resolution of the signal is going into each tv, just so you aren't comparing apples to oranges.

RoosterD

Gaara wrote:

As for costco, if it is the same make and model I imagine it would be the same quality. I know they have alot of off models, ones that are only found through costco. I believe that these are older models rebadged for costco, leftover stock that needs to be sold. Toshiba does this at the costco in my area.
Jared

I just checked on the Sammy, and the Costco model has a C at the end instead of a W... So it is a different model. What that means, I don't know.

LuSh

sickicw: Step outside of a big box store for a second. There is a reason why Sony has been dropped by almost every independant dealer in North America, and price is no longer the big issue...

In regards to the twice as many pixels claim it's BS. Sony advertises 3 times as many pixels because they take into account the blue, green and red shaders the image is reflected off of. The reality of the situation is that only 1080 x 1920 can be showed at one time. The other reality is that we will probably never see this on air, and Blu Ray hasn't even been proven yet.

Gaara

Half true. Sony's claim of 3million pixels is very deceptive for their LCD projos, but they can say they are twice as many pixels as most sets out there. The SXRD is a true 1080p resoultion, it actually has over 2 million pixels, while most 1080p sets out there only have a little over 1 million. All of the currently avaliable DLPs that are 1080p use a wobulating chip, so the resolution of the chip itself is only 960x1080, it just goes twice as fast as a conventional chip to fill in the extra half of the resolution.

There are few tvs that can actually boast a true 1080p resolution, the sony being one of them, the JVC DILA being another, along with various LCDs.

Jared

JcM

RoosterD wrote:

Another point is how far away from the TV you'll be. I read on AVS (I think) that unless you're sitting within 10ft? of the TV you won't be able to see the difference in 720P and 1080P with 20/20 vision. <- Don't take that as absolute, I just remember reading this information too. Something that you might want to include in your decision. A friend of mine just bought a Sammy 720p 56" from Costco for 1k less than my 1080, so I don't know who made the better purchase. I know that some companies (if not all) don't offer a warranty on their electronics if bought through costco (denon), but does that even matter when you can pretty much return anything to Costco? The flip side to that is will you be getting the same quality? I may have more questions than answers for you LOL.

This article is great for background info on resolution:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=5&article_id=1137

Here is a chart from the article(see attachment)

Julian

Lsi9

My Sxrd continues to impress and surprise me months after getting here.
everything from Pixar movies to old black & white samurai movies look incredibly vivid & lifelike