DVD Backup

heiney9

bobman1235 wrote:

A few quick points : 3. It's copyRIGHT, not copyWRITE. As in your RIGHTS. (just nitpicking on that )

Yes, I realized that after I posted and was too lazy to go back and edit. I'm a horrible typist, type way too fast and am just lazy when it comes to proof reading for the forum .

I'd still be interested in seeing the specific provision in US Copyright law that states you cannot make copies of movies for personal use. Not because I don't believe it, but I haven't run across anything while searching. I understand the law not making sense thing, but if I purchase something I'm going to do whatever I damn well please as long as it's for personal use and I'm not selling it or making other pays to view it. To me that's reasonable use.

Why is everyone debating the digital copyright scheme/programs that have been invented to prevent copying? Because it infringes on the very principle of the Fair Use provision. If it's strictly illegal to make copies then why would so many people/organizations be upset and fighting digital copying schemes being instituted ( besides the programs that degrade the audio/video signal)?

H9

Demiurge

PolkThug wrote:

Your interpretation and the law are two separate things. We can interpret anything, however we want. There are no laws, Acts or judicial declarations that make it OK to copy a copyrighted DVD without permission. So, to reiterate, it is illegal to make copies of copyrighted material, UNLESS there are legal provisions.

As mentioned above, there are documented provisions for other kinds of material.

For example, for TV broadcasts -
1984 Sony Corp v Universal Studios, Inc
-cliff notes: declares broadcast can be recorded and watched at a later time, then the recording should be erased as to not build a library of copyrighted material.

So what? You're not going to get arrested for having copies of things you own. That's not the intent of the law, which is why it isn't enforced, but apparently that point is flying over your head.

If you got arrested for having copies of DVDs you own I guarantee that you're getting aquitted.

heiney9

PolkThug wrote:

Your interpretation and the law are two separate things. We can interpret anything, however we want. There are no laws, Acts or judicial declarations that make it OK to copy a copyrighted DVD without permission. So, to reiterate, it is illegal to make copies of copyrighted material, UNLESS there are legal provisions.

As mentioned above, there are documented provisions for other kinds of material.

For example, for TV broadcasts -
1984 Sony Corp v Universal Studios, Inc
-cliff notes: declares broadcast can be recorded and watched at a later time, then the recording should be erased as to not build a library of copyrighted material.

There are no laws that say we can't. It's not that black and white. You can't say because no one says we can make copies it's illegal. It falls under the provision of Fair Use which is purposely written to be vague so as to never specifically say yes you can make copies or no you can't make copies. All the specific laws have to do with pirating, altering, or making a profit from copywritten material w/o permission. There is no distinction between, written, audio or video.

It's a grey area that isn't specific one way or another until someone takes you to court, then all bets are off and I guarantee if it's reasonable fair use you'll never have a problem.

H9

PolkThug

heiney9 wrote:

I'd still be interested in seeing the specific provision in US Copyright law that states you cannot make copies of movies for personal use.

Google "Copyright Law" or "Copyright Act".

The latest DVD movie you bought is copyrighted material (ever see the copyright notice at the beginning?). Making a copy of that copyrighted material is copyright infringement. Copyright infringement is punishable.

PolkThug

Demiurge wrote:

So what? You're not going to get arrested for having copies of things you own. That's not the intent of the law, which is why it isn't enforced, but apparently that point is flying over your head.

No point is flying over my head. I'm writing specifically about the legal/illegal aspect of making a copy of copyrighted material.

I agree with you that no copyright police are going to kick down my door, maybe you don't get the point I'm making.

heiney9

P Thuggy, your taking this idea and making it very black and white. It's not that simple, it never has been and it never will be. There is a provision in the US Copyright law called Fair Use. The specific intent of Fair Use is to allow person or persons to copy/use copywritten material w/o consent from the orginal party. What it does not do and never will do is draw a distinct and specific line which outlines when the Fair Use provision has been violated unless it grossly goes against the intent (ie; pirating, profiting, altering).

This is the site I've been on all morning and I have yet to see anything that specifically forbides anyone to make a copy for fair use.

http://www.copyright.gov/

Anyways I'm done with this. You choose to interpret it literally as a black & white issue and you clearly want it to state yes you can or no you can't. It's not that simple. Copyright issues have never been that simple and are only becoming more complicated with the digital age.

I subscribe to the reasonable Fair Use POV because I know it's never been or ever will be a simple yes or no answer.

Very interesting discussion though

H9

Demiurge

PolkThug wrote:

No point is flying over my head. I'm writing specifically about the legal/illegal aspect of making a copy of copyrighted material.

I agree with you that no copyright police are going to kick down my door, maybe you don't get the point I'm making.

No I get it, but I am not sure why you're wasting your time arguing with people who are going to do it anyways. In the same breath I don't know why anyone is arguing that it is legal, because technically it isn't.

We all break laws everyday. Choose if the penalties are worth taking the risk.

PolkThug

Demiurge wrote:

No I get it, but I am not sure why you're wasting your time arguing with people who are going to do it anyways.

I prefer to call it a discussion. Whether they do it or not is beside the point. Many people on this forum have good HT demo material because of me.

Demiurge wrote:

In the same breath I don't know why anyone is arguing that it is legal, because technically it isn't.

We all break laws everyday. Choose if the penalties are worth taking the risk.

Agree 100%, I love to ride my bicycle on the sidewalk while drawing pictures of prophets!

Demiurge

PolkThug wrote:

I prefer to call it a discussion. Whether they do it or not is beside the point. Many people on this forum have good HT demo material because of me.



Agree 100%, I love to ride my bicycle on the sidewalk while drawing pictures of prophets!

I guess I became jaded about trying to have meaningful discussions around here. Most aren't up for it.

polrbehr

bpadget wrote:

I'm still trying to figure out if it makes sense to spend time and energy backing up a dvd collection. How many original dvds actually fail?

Not to answer a ? with a ? , but how many kids are in your house??

petrym

I wonder if you could make a bitwise copy of the DVD as save as an image file. That copy would include all areas of disk, including any copy protection code, that is marked as unused to the OS/disk-player but is accessed via hardware addressing from the disk itself.

petrym

<--- (puts on his aluminim foil hat to block the thought waves from the gov't and MPAA)

TheReaper

petrym wrote:

I wonder if you could make a bitwise copy of the DVD as save as an image file. That copy would include all areas of disk, including any copy protection code, that is marked as unused to the OS/disk-player but is accessed via hardware addressing from the disk itself.

css is already ahead of you:

6.2.1.5 Recordable Media Playback Control. DVD Players shall
refuse to play back recordable (whether write-once or rewritable) DVD
Discs containing digital source code indicating that the content was never to
be copied. DVD Players shall also refuse to perform CSS descrambling
functions with respect to any content contained on a recordable (whether
write-once or rewritable) DVD Disc. Licensee understands that the Content
Marking System described in Section 6.2.13 is expected to be used for
recordable media playback control, and that adoption of such Content
Marking System is expected to include modifications to the requirements of
this provision to accomplish such use.