Speaker wire...?

reeltrouble1

shack wrote:

Waaaaaaaaaaaa...... Yep the gear doesn't matter.

Thats what the man said. Big mistake, big, big, mistake. All brains are the same.!!! Peel away those face labels, crush that skull and you get the same gray matter!!!!

I would recommend a few more nights in the local Holiday Inn Express.

RT1

markopolo

I think that there is some validity to what John K said. What we perceive is influenced by what we expect to perceive. That's basic psychology. That is not to say there is no difference between manufacurers and expensive or cheap equipment. But I bet that many of you audiophiles would be surpised by the results if you were to take the blind test yourselves. But since this thread is about speaker wire, my own experience was that I thought I heard an improvement in sound when I ran better wire. Of course I WANTED to hear an improvement. Would I hear an improvement if I used $20/ft wire? At that price I suspect that I would at least CONVINCE myself that I would.

F1nut

I think that there is some validity to what John K said. What we perceive is influenced by what we expect to perceive. That's basic psychology.

That may apply to idiots, monkeys and John K., but it is far from the absolute truth. For example, I decided to upgrade to some IC's priced at twice ($1800.00) what I was using. Sure, I thought they would sound better, but the fact is they sounded like crapola and I returned them. Another example, I listened to some speakers priced at $25k. Did I want them to sound good? You bet! Did they? Nope, they sounded terrible.

One has to trust in themselves and what they hear. Otherwise, what's the point!?!

The truth about John K. is that he forms his opinions on things he has read and not on personal experience. I can't respect that.

reeltrouble1

I think someone may have been in the pool to long.

RT1

aaharvel

polrbehr wrote:

If you're looking for speaker cables at a decent price, look no further than Monster. They offer a lot of choices in a lot of price ranges.

nice cut and paste from Monster.com
now what do you really think?

W WALDECKER

markopolo wrote:

I think that there is some validity to what John K said. What we perceive is influenced by what we expect to perceive. That's basic psychology. That is not to say there is no difference between manufacurers and expensive or cheap equipment. But I bet that many of you audiophiles would be surpised by the results if you were to take the blind test yourselves. But since this thread is about speaker wire, my own experience was that I thought I heard an improvement in sound when I ran better wire. Of course I WANTED to hear an improvement. Would I hear an improvement if I used $20/ft wire? At that price I suspect that I would at least CONVINCE myself that I would.

if you have cables , gear ,loudspeakers etc... and can do a comparison right then and there i think you have a moot point in agreeing with John K. if i buy something new and audition it against my other gear and its not up to snuff it goes back to where ever it came from in a heartbeat! for example i just bought a BAT VK 3i tube preamplifier equipped with Russian Sovtecs which are a relatively cheap twin triode tube. i already owned an expensive Quad of matched and balanced Amperex 7308 gold pin tubes which are regarded as one of the best tubes in the 6DJ8/6922 family of tubes. i rolled the 7308s into the VK 3i and listened carefully and found that i very much prefered the Sovtecs in this particular circuit over the highly regarded 7308 goldpins. this defys the Psychology logic that you are describing when applied to audio. would you care to respond? thanks....WCW III

Lowell_M

a_mattison wrote:

Monster Wire is a waste of money. I was looking for 12 ga., but Home Depot was out...Parts express had 100 ft of 12 ga. cheaper and it works just great.

Does anybody have any quantitative data to show that any higher cost speaker wire provides any better performance than a 12 gauge lamp cord? I read an article about the subject somewhere, but can't remember where.

In retrospect....maybe leaving this conversation alone would have been a good idea.......hmmmmmm:o

steveinaz

The only thing you can do is try it for yourself...Those proclaim there is no difference in cables, obviously have no experience in trying different cables. They prefer to "parrot" what they've read or heard---I've opened a can of corn before, that don't make me a farmer...

Lowell_M

I am beginning to understand.......my bachelors degree is in physics....in theory, when talking about speaker wire (not IC's) there shoudn't be any difference if the conductance is the same (or even close really)...BUT.....I have never really heard many different speaker wires. I can say there is a HUGE difference when going from a cheapo 22ga. wire to a 14 or 12 ga. wire, but I don't have the personal experience regarding different manufacturers of similar sizes.

This is definately a sensitive subject here, and there must be something to the different brand offerings of wire..........yikes!!

McLoki

We are not saying that there will be a difference that you will hear on your system. Since we have not heard your system (nor heard through your ears) there is no way for us to know. We have heard differences in our systems though, both for better and worse, and would encourage you to try it and see for yourself if you hear anything.

An audio system all works together, when you change nearly anything, the sound will change. Sometimes it is dramatic, sometimes it is not - but until you try it, you will never know for sure.

Michael

noimposse

I didnt realize asking such an inane question would stir up so many opinions...wow.

Well from what I remember, the wire I am using is either 18 or 22ga. So hopefully when I finally get around to getting some new stuff, I'll hear something different. Thanks for all the comments though.

reeltrouble1

a_mattison wrote:

I am beginning to understand.......my bachelors degree is in physics....in theory, when talking about speaker wire (not IC's) there shoudn't be any difference if the conductance is the same (or even close really)...BUT.....I have never really heard many different speaker wires. I can say there is a HUGE difference when going from a cheapo 22ga. wire to a 14 or 12 ga. wire, but I don't have the personal experience regarding different manufacturers of similar sizes.

This is definately a sensitive subject here, and there must be something to the different brand offerings of wire..........yikes!!

Yes, you are beginning to understand, Martin Luther once wrote, "ich bin nicht mein" roughly translated, Its not me. He was working on the differences between reality vs actuality. An interesting read to say the least.

In our little thread it may even be a reality that a measurement of some sort may not record a difference in electron flow, however, the actuality is that people state they hear differences in wire. Deep shite huh? Scopes can't hear, people can, yet we are all unique, making each system with a user the same.

As far as the gear itself, its utter nonsense to say its all the same sans the labels. Shows a deep lack of understanding.

RT1

dorokusai

reeltrouble1 wrote:

Yes, you are beginning to understand, Martin Luther once wrote, "ich bin nicht mein" roughly translated, Its not me. He was working on the differences between reality vs actuality. An interesting read to say the least.

In our little thread it may even be a reality that a measurement of some sort may not record a difference in electron flow, however, the actuality is that people state they hear differences in wire. Deep shite huh? Scopes can't hear, people can, yet we are all unique, making each system with a user the same.

As far as the gear itself, its utter nonsense to say its all the same sans the labels. Shows a deep lack of understanding.

RT1

I'd love to hear the segway from this thread into that reading material...isn't it "Es ist nicht ich"?...

markopolo

W WALDECKER wrote:

if you have cables , gear ,loudspeakers etc... and can do a comparison right then and there i think you have a moot point in agreeing with John K. if i buy something new and audition it against my other gear and its not up to snuff it goes back to where ever it came from in a heartbeat! for example i just bought a BAT VK 3i tube preamplifier equipped with Russian Sovtecs which are a relatively cheap twin triode tube. i already owned an expensive Quad of matched and balanced Amperex 7308 gold pin tubes which are regarded as one of the best tubes in the 6DJ8/6922 family of tubes. i rolled the 7308s into the VK 3i and listened carefully and found that i very much prefered the Sovtecs in this particular circuit over the highly regarded 7308 goldpins. this defys the Psychology logic that you are describing when applied to audio. would you care to respond? thanks....WCW III

I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. But from the amount that it sounds like you spend on your sound system I figure you can probably afford a basic psychology class. The basic premise that what we perceive is influenced by what we want to perceive still stands and applies to audio systems as much as anything else. Psychology is not a hard science though so....your experience may vary. Now....how about inviting me over to perceive your system.

F1nut

I understand WCW III perfectly. It's just about the same thing I said. What we are saying is that reality rises above perception if one pulls their head outta their arse and actually trusts their own ears.

If you find yourself in the MD/DC/VA area, stop on in.

W WALDECKER

markopolo wrote:

I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. But from the amount that it sounds like you spend on your sound system I figure you can probably afford a basic psychology class. The basic premise that what we perceive is influenced by what we want to perceive still stands and applies to audio systems as much as anything else. Psychology is not a hard science though so....your experience may vary. Now....how about inviting me over to perceive your system.

I understand your basic premise on what we percieve and i was giving you a real life example of how wrong it can be.thanks....WCW III

W WALDECKER

"I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. But from the amount that it sounds like you spend on your sound system I figure you can probably afford a basic psychology class". i understand psychology and i agree with some of it,but a lot of it is highbrow ****.

reeltrouble1

dorokusai wrote:

I'd love to hear the segway from this thread into that reading material...isn't it "Es ist nicht ich"?...

Might of been, been a long time, but you get the drift. I seem to recall his saying "mein".

Its a bit beyond Psych. 101, but as we know so am I.

Bottom line wire matters to me.

RT1

Lowell_M

reeltrouble1 wrote:

Yes, you are beginning to understand, Martin Luther once wrote, "ich bin nicht mein" roughly translated, Its not me. He was working on the differences between reality vs actuality. An interesting read to say the least.

In our little thread it may even be a reality that a measurement of some sort may not record a difference in electron flow, however, the actuality is that people state they hear differences in wire. Deep shite huh? Scopes can't hear, people can, yet we are all unique, making each system with a user the same.

As far as the gear itself, its utter nonsense to say its all the same sans the labels. Shows a deep lack of understanding.

RT1

I'm definately with you on the gear, man. That is a whole different deal. There can be many subtle differences withing the same model number from the same company even.

heiney9

John K. wrote:

Michael, it isn't simply an opinion or perception(I try to avoid that whenever possible); although we read endlessly about the "sound" of players, amplifiers and even pieces of wire, most of that is BS(Before Science)and although music is art, audio is science. Well-designed equipment playing at precisely the same level(adjusted to within 0.1dB)isn't audibly distinguishable in properly controlled blind listening tests(the only condition in which we truly have to "trust" only our ears). When the nameplates and pricetags have disappeared, so have the differences in sound which were previously described in flowery terms by the same listeners for the same equipment before the test. This is well-established factual information, but despite this, subjective (mis)impressions have created an audio fantasy world where the participants continually reinforce each others' illusions.

What does matter and deserves our special attention(and money)in audio is the source material(e.g. CDs and DVDs, not the devices to play them), the speakers and the listening room. It isn't realistic to assume that any of these three factors are the same for different source materials, speakers and locations, but if it was arranged to have exactly the same source material playing through exactly the same speakers in exactly the same room setup, then by definition there'd be no difference in sound. There can be no effect without a cause.

Priceless .

Law of Logical Argument:
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about"

H9

polrbehr

aaharvel wrote:

nice cut and paste from Monster.com
now what do you really think?

I think you should spend more time researching web sites...
at least before you try to rip someone down.
A) Monster.com is the job search site, not the wire company
I couldn't locate what I stated anywhere in the Monstercable.com website.
Perhaps you can post a link to my "quote" so that I don't plaigerize again
C) I think my advice was just that... advice. That's the beauty of living in
a free country.
D) I stand by what I said. I upgraded to Monster cables, and my setup
sounds pretty good to me. Maybe not as good as some others out there,
but I like what I've got ( see latter part of item C above ).

polrbehr

[\QUOTE=aaharvel]nice cut and paste from Monster.com
now what do you really think?[/QUOTE]

PolkThug

noimposse wrote:

So I was looking to getting some decent quality speaker wire for my rti4's.

Grab some 12/14 awg from Home Depot (I think it is branded RCA). My Rti4's sounded great with it.

Regards

schwarcw

What wire would Freud recommend?:rolleyes:

McLoki

schwarcw wrote:

What wire would Freud recommend?:rolleyes:

Depends, what wire reminds you of your mother?????

Michael

Drumingman

I bought 12 guage from Lowes for 49 cpf. I always prefer larger guage to smaller. There is a difference and I don't care how long the run is. Over the years I have rewired the internal wiring inside my speakers with much larger wires and just from the crossover to the drivers makes a sonic world of difference. That's just my perception.

cfrizz

Your ID is simply reminding you of the memory you have of nursing from your mother!:p :eek:

McLoki wrote:

Depends, what wire reminds you of your mother?????

Michael

F1nut

If you're looking for speaker cables at a decent price, look no further than Monster. They offer a lot of choices in a lot of price ranges.

I seem to recall that sales pitch in some of their ad's.

I couldn't locate what I stated anywhere in the Monstercable.com website.
Perhaps you can post a link to my "quote" so that I don't plaigerize again

Maybe it was subconscious.......perhaps proof that the millions spent on advertising instead of product development does pay off.

TroyD

I will not get involved...I will not get involved...I will not get involved... (JohnK is an idiot)...I will not get involved....I will not get involved

BDT

reeltrouble1

you will, you will, look at the pretty blue light BDT, you will you will......