Eric Clapton....

TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
edited May 2002 in Music & Movies
I've been listening to some EC in the mancave and have come to the conclusion that Eric Clapton recordings, specifically old Clapton, Cream, Blind Faith etc....suffer from some of the most piss poor recordings known to man. White Room is the quentisential rock song, it's got everything BUT the recording absolutely SUCKS. I was listening to a Telarc sampler before putting in some EC so the problem was even more highlighted.

What I wouldn't give for some decent EC recordings.

Troy (of the Big Dumb Dions)
I plan for the future. - F1Nut
Post edited by TroyD on
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Comments

  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited May 2002
    I've heard the Eric Clapton/BB King CD is supposed to be a pretty good recording. I only listened to it once (on a boombox), so I really couldn't say.

    Aaron
  • jeberhartjeberhart Posts: 69
    edited May 2002
    Try the remastered, 2-CD deluxe edition of the Blind Faith album. It sounds pretty nice. Too bad you have to pay for all the pointless jamming and noodling that the include with the original songs, though.
    I'm of the opinion that remasters really can sound great, although, as with the original recording, it takes a good engineer at the board; otherwise it can be crap. But you're asking a lot from the old Cream stuff -- that's pushing the limits, really. Musical recordings have simply gotten outrageously more detailed in the last few years -- and so the stuff from about '69 on back sounds bad to our ears. Of course, Mr. Neil Young would tell you that digital is a huge mistake, but he overgeneralizes -- there are some great digital recordings around. Anyway, if you don't have that Blind Faith reissue, pick it up. But DON'T get the DTS version of Clapton's "461 Ocean Blvd." A total waste of time. Terrible mix, in my opinion, but then I'm not very fond of DTS for music anyway. The only DTS CD I have that I like is one by Diana Krall -- basically just piano, bass, drums and voice.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited May 2002
    Tom Scholz of Boston is an analog guy as well.....

    I disagree to an extent about the recordings though......There aer some GREAT jazz recordings (ie Kind of Blue) that are much older than 1969. I think that a good recording WAS possible, but they just blew it.


    Troy (of the Big Dumb Dions)
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • hoosier21hoosier21 Posts: 4,404
    edited May 2002
    TroyD I agree 100%, good recordings of most rock groups are hard to find. Most are very poor quality.
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
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    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited May 2002
    Russ,
    I agree completely and this is my opinion why.......

    Jazz aficianados tend to be of the audiophile crowd where as rock recordings are for the masses. Therefore, good rock recordings were not that critical, they would still sell.

    It's too bad because Clapton is great and White Room is, IMO, one of the great rock songs of all time.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • joe logstonjoe logston Posts: 882
    edited May 2002
    its a shame that most rock recordings are of poor quality,

    one of the best of the 70s is steely dan (gaucho)
    mcad-37220 didx 56 mca records

    try it if you can find compair to the others and see the diffrance
    . rt-7 mains
    rt-20p surounds
    cs-400i front center
    cs-350 ls rear center
    2 energy take 5, efects
    2- psw-650 , subs
    1- 15" audiosource sub

    lets all go to the next ces.
  • joe logstonjoe logston Posts: 882
    edited May 2002
    here is a later rock that is real good sound quaity,

    mark selby; more storms comin'

    79570-2 vangard records
    . rt-7 mains
    rt-20p surounds
    cs-400i front center
    cs-350 ls rear center
    2 energy take 5, efects
    2- psw-650 , subs
    1- 15" audiosource sub

    lets all go to the next ces.
  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited May 2002
    There aer some GREAT jazz recordings (ie Kind of Blue)
    Are you kidding??? That recording sounds like trash, even the SACD version! It's crackles like a mo-fo!

    Aaron
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited May 2002
    It is however, clearly superior in comparison to the rock recordings of the day......

    The point is that the technology of the day didn't automatically preclude a decent recording.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • Billm57Billm57 Posts: 689
    edited May 2002
    Originally posted by jeberhart
    Try the remastered, 2-CD deluxe edition of the Blind Faith album. It sounds pretty nice. Too bad you have to pay for all the pointless jamming and noodling that the include with the original songs, though.
    .

    You can actually get the original Blind faith remastered too..it came out shortly after the expanded edition..same remaster job..just left off the rest of the extra stuff..
  • Micah CohenMicah Cohen Ruler of the gnome universe Posts: 2,020
    edited May 2002
    What are you guys talking about? After Cream, everything Clapton did (except for that 7 minute, totally evil, live "Further On Up The Road") is completely sucky and wimpy. "Lay Down Sally"? Blech.

    I just got the remastered "Wheels of Fire" 2-CD set, and -- MAN! -- that is some completely AWESOME mindbending power rock. The three of them clicked massively, and Jack Bruce is an effing ANIMAL. And the sound quality is better than I remember it being even on the vinyl! It plows your brain apart! It's the reason behind every hard rock band that came after including SABBATH!

    Listen to "Wheels of Fire" and then listen to later Clapton. It's not even the same guy. He stopped eating his Wheaties. "I Shot The Sherriff"? What was he thinking?! DO DRUGS man! Play like you did in Cream!

    MC
    [email protected]

    "There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
  • Micah CohenMicah Cohen Ruler of the gnome universe Posts: 2,020
    edited May 2002
    Oh and just another thought on "White Room." You know, it always makes me think that Martin Scorcese is a genius. Because that moment in GOODFELLAS when Jimmy (DeNiro) decides to wack Morty (the toupee guy) and Scorcese does that amazing slow zoom right to his face with the cigarette smoke curling up and the deadly glint in his eye and "White Room" starts playing on the soundtrack is one of the greatest image/music moments in filmdom. And no one else since Clapton played it has anyone tapped into the real evil vibe of that song like Scorcese in that moment.

    And speaking of that moment in GOODFELLAS, and not to mix my threads or anything, but it's moments like that that make it clear that Quentin Tarantino is lame and untalented in the extreme.

    There. I said it.

    MC
    [email protected]

    "There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited May 2002
    somewhat disagree about later Clapton. Some of him material, like After Midnight, Cocaine....GREAT STUFF live. Recordings are pure crap though.....


    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • OrangeToupeeOrangeToupee Posts: 488
    edited May 2002
    If you cannot appreciate Clapton's "Promises," or "Another Ticket," and your reason is because they don't sound "totally evil," well, then you are headed down the wrong way of a one-way street. Thanks, orange.
  • Micah CohenMicah Cohen Ruler of the gnome universe Posts: 2,020
    edited May 2002
    Keep music evil.
    [email protected]

    "There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
  • OrangeToupeeOrangeToupee Posts: 488
    edited May 2002
    There's nothing evil about music. Perhaps you need to go to prison.
  • hoosier21hoosier21 Posts: 4,404
    edited May 2002
    Can you tell Micah got the newpaper out.

    He is back in the Forum, now we will have to clean up our act again :(
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,397
    edited May 2002
    Try the MFSL gold cd's of Clapton.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • jeberhartjeberhart Posts: 69
    edited May 2002
    Troy,

    You're right about the jazz world being a different ballgame. There are some FINE jazz recordings out there, and some do sound incredible. But of course there are different challenges in recording jazz combos vs. rock bands.

    One thing in the rock arena I forgot about, though, was the Allman Brothers' "At Fillmore East." The original live recording sounded pretty nice, I thought, and I now have the two-CD set with the extra material that producer Tom Dowd put together a few years ago. The mixes are superb. Hey, it may not be Eric, but Duane is no slouch, you know?
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited May 2002
    no worries,

    I was also going through my cd's in the mancave last night.....I'd have to check the dates on the recordings but one of my Elvis cd's has "In the Ghetto" (a song about Aarons biamp job) "Kentucky Rain" and "Suspicious Minds" Three OUTSTANDING recordings from the early 70's. They really capture the King's vocals well. GREAT stuff, brothas, GREAT stuff.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • Billm57Billm57 Posts: 689
    edited May 2002
    Originally posted by Micah
    What are you guys talking about? After Cream, everything Clapton did (except for that 7 minute, totally evil, live "Further On Up The Road") is completely sucky and wimpy. "Lay Down Sally"? Blech.

    I just got the remastered "Wheels of Fire" 2-CD set, and -- MAN! -- that is some completely AWESOME mindbending power rock. The three of them clicked massively, and Jack Bruce is an effing ANIMAL. And the sound quality is better than I remember it being even on the vinyl! It plows your brain apart! It's the reason behind every hard rock band that came after including SABBATH!

    Listen to "Wheels of Fire" and then listen to later Clapton. It's not even the same guy. He stopped eating his Wheaties. "I Shot The Sherriff"? What was he thinking?! DO DRUGS man! Play like you did in Cream!

    MC

    Waht about Derek and The Dominos??? Layla (with Duane Allman on slide) blows away anything he did with Cream (and I like Cream)...
  • Billm57Billm57 Posts: 689
    edited May 2002
    Originally posted by jeberhart
    Troy,

    You're right about the jazz world being a different ballgame. There are some FINE jazz recordings out there, and some do sound incredible. But of course there are different challenges in recording jazz combos vs. rock bands.

    One thing in the rock arena I forgot about, though, was the Allman Brothers' "At Fillmore East." The original live recording sounded pretty nice, I thought, and I now have the two-CD set with the extra material that producer Tom Dowd put together a few years ago. The mixes are superb. Hey, it may not be Eric, but Duane is no slouch, you know?

    Duane was a much better guitarist than Clapton in my eyes..even Clapton was impressed with his playing as well which was why he invited him to sit when they recorded the Layla album..that New Fillmore mix does sound great though doesnt it?
  • jeberhartjeberhart Posts: 69
    edited May 2002
    Well, now we've gone and done it -- opened the big can o' worms, the great debate over Clapton vs. Duane Allman. If I had to pick one guy to bring his guitar and amp to a desert island to entertain me, I'd go with Duane. Of course, he's dead, though, so...uhhhh....I'd go with Eric....no, no, no...the rules say I can reanimate Duane, don't they?...no, no, no...Now if you're talking about SLIDE guitar, Duane rules...uh...except Eric's such a fine Dobro player.................
  • Billm57Billm57 Posts: 689
    edited May 2002
    I guess I should re-iterate..I think Duane made the Layla album sound as good as it did ..When I listen to Derek and The Dominos at the Fillmore without Duane it doesnt sound half as good...I have a bootleg of a Derek and the Dominos concert with Duane and there it is ..that sweet sound again..I shouldnt say one guitarist is better than another but I prefer Duanes sound over Eric's..if you want good playing you have to go back to Ten Years After when they were in thier prime..Alvin Lee was an incredible and FAST player that was sorely under rated ..he smoked the most on thier live stuff ..I could list a lot of guitarists on here that I think were the best but yes..i guess I shouldnt say one is better than the other..they all have thier unique sound
  • joe logstonjoe logston Posts: 882
    edited May 2002
    on rock&roll guitarist, i would have to go with jeff beck,
    i know some of his music sinks but playing a guitar he rules

    blues its, stevie ray vaughan
    . rt-7 mains
    rt-20p surounds
    cs-400i front center
    cs-350 ls rear center
    2 energy take 5, efects
    2- psw-650 , subs
    1- 15" audiosource sub

    lets all go to the next ces.
  • jeberhartjeberhart Posts: 69
    edited May 2002
    Man, every time you guys post, you remind me there's always another guy out there with an ax. Yep, Alvin Lee was amazing. And Jeff Beck...you know, as far as pure TECHNIQUE, that guy probably lords it over everybody else, or the oldsters, at least. I have every solo album Beck ever made, and not a few of his various band projects. I always thought Beck's problem was that he was such an overbearing personality that he couldn't keep a band together. The two people that survived him the longest have been drummer Simon Phillips and keyboardist Tony Hymas.
    But back to Billm57 and Eric and Duane. Another reason I'm not sure I could give an edge to one of these guys is that Duane Allman died when he was only 24 years old. What would he have done if he'd lived? Maybe he would have declined, you know? Clapton has had to live several decades with his own reputation and his fans' expectations. I guess what I'm saying is that Clapton lived the blues, but Duane lived and DIED them. There's a big difference. Same thing with Stevie Ray Vaughan -- that last album he released when he was alive, "In Step," was a pretty big leap beyond his previous records, in my opinion. I think SRV's best work might've been ahead of him, but you never know -- he could've sunk back into substance abuse and done mediocre work.
    I'll just make one declaration, and that's this: When it comes to electric slide guitar, I've never heard anyone with a touch like Duane Allman's. There are and have been other great ones out there -- Ry Cooder, Blind Willie Johnson, Robert Johnson, Jimmy Page on a good night, Sonny Landreth, Bonnie Raitt, Elmore James -- but Allman was FLUID beyond belief.
  • jeberhartjeberhart Posts: 69
    edited May 2002
    Addendum to that last post I made: Of course Robert Johnson and Blind Willie Johnson didn't play electric slide; sorry I implied that. I threw them in there, though, because their approaches were so aggressive. Both of 'em played awfully hard, and if they'd had access to electric instruments, I'm sure they would've embraced them.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited May 2002
    Cripes.....

    All I said was that the recordings sucked......

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • jeberhartjeberhart Posts: 69
    edited May 2002
    Yeah, Troy, it's all your fault, man. ;)
    But I'm enjoying the hell out of it. Think I'll take Beck's "Guitar Shop," Allmans' "Fillmore East" and Cream's "Disraeli Gears" to work with me today...
  • Billm57Billm57 Posts: 689
    edited May 2002
    I dont think Duane would have declined..but if you look at some of the slide guitarists in ABB since then you will see that there are some good up and comers..Derek Trucks for one and Warren Haynes for another although he has been around for awhile first with the DIckey Betts band, then ABB, then Gov Mule then ABB again(present)..hey lets not forget Robin Trower..listened to him on the way in today ..anothe rguy lost in the shuffle because he had the "nerve" to sound like Hendrix so the critics beat up on him....hmmm..I think we need to start a favorite guitarists thread as this has veered quite a bit away from Eric Clapton..guess Ill start one and see if it flies
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